Outer Limits 4x4 Board

So, a mate of mine just got his SR5 hilux g'box/transfer exchanged for the manual shift box/transfer(reconditioned... apparently!!). Not sure who the seller was in sydney(and would love to let you all know, so you don't get screwed too!!!) but don't know which business it was. A reputable 4wd guy installed it, so no dramas what so ever with that side of things.

After doing only 250kms, and on the way up north for the weekend, with no warning, the thing just shiat itself....no 1st, 2nd or 3rd only had 4th gear left. After calling the guy which sold him the unit, was told that they'd have to look at it(here comes the dodgy fix to get it going again!!!!) So after stripping it down, seems all the teeth on the main gear are sheared......

Now would you call this a faulty product??? Certainly not reconditioned me thinks!!!!! Clause on the rear of invoice states something to the effect of..... any probs within the g'box/case (mechanical) is not covered under warranty. I would say fair call if the car had done atleast 1000-1500+ kms, but 250kms, surely this is a fault before it was purchased.

Now the shiat has hit the fan.... they won't warranty it, he has a stuffed g'box thats already cost a heap of $$$ and now has to pay to get it fixed again, let alone no car to drive in the mean time!!!!

So much for good faith in buying a reliable product these days... after things like this, why do you even trust them.

What do you think??????

id want it to last longer than 1500kms id be happy with a 5000km warrenty but that would end pretty quick i recon.

This is not on....he sold your mate a box that was supposed to be in good nick, but didnt last 260kms....he should demand his money back or a repair...it was obviously not put back together right and the layshaft brgs have failed.
Andrew

So what exactly has failed???

Was it the main gears at the front of the box that drives the layshaft??? - because it must have been layshaft related if he lost all but 4th. And was it the mainshaft gear that went first or the layshaft gear?

So if it was a material failure of one of the gears, the questions I have are:

Was the gear new or 2nd hand?

Is the box fitted behind a std engine or something else (v8)?

It would be hard to claim faulty workmanship, unless you can prove something else went wrong first and caused the gear to fail. If the gear was 2nd hand though, there should have been some proer check of all components before the "reconditioned" box was reassembled - still no guarantee of finding anything though.

If the place was decent about it they should fix the box on good faith IMHO.

Looks like you would have to find some way of arguing faulty workmanship (or faulty parts building the box) if you want to get anywhere.

if it is a genuine warranty claim (ie not broken abusing the box) call the guy who reco'd it and give him one more chance to fix it or you'll go to consumer affairs.

Just saw a complete box on ebay under toyota. I have no faith in the legal side here, if they wont fix it because they sold it as a going concern (they are all recently reconditioned) and u got some third party to install, then just cut your losses and buy another. Saves the car being down for ages and grey hair appearing.
or if u think u have a case, buy the other and let them worry about giving u your money back.
Andrew

cheers for all that info...
Will get my mate on here to read it all and answer all the possible causes and what actually gave way. He has only told me about it over the phone.
It is only a 2.8d Hilux SR5 with aftermarket turbo, so I think no real probs there with the added power. As for the layshaft... he'd have to answer that one.
He had spoken to dept fair trading, but think was basically told that because of the clause on the rear of invoice, would be hard work getting anything done, unless as was said before, he does it in good faith, which I think any honest tradesman would normally do.

Really is a lose-lose situation huh!!!

A few years ago I had a 1990 2.8 diesel. with an aftermarket turbo.

3 gearboxes later I sold it. Same problem with gear teeth.
Cost me about $3000 in boxes.
Toyota Tufff.... ppffftttttt
Marks had a HD gearbox conversion for a while back then??

Needed to back the fuel right off.

Boxes cant take the low down torque thru the gears from the turbo.

Bazzle

Motor vehicle traders association I think are the ones to talk to.

Small Claims cOurt, Consumer Affairs, and create a website with their company name in it as much as you can, so that search engines find it, and keep it 100% factual, then send then a link to it - and CC (so he can see that everyone is getting it) every car/4wd/rally club in the state.

bazzle wrote:A few years ago I had a 1990 2.8 diesel. with an aftermarket turbo.

3 gearboxes later I sold it. Same problem with gear teeth.
Cost me about $3000 in boxes.
Toyota Tufff.... ppffftttttt
Marks had a HD gearbox conversion for a while back then??

Needed to back the fuel right off.

Boxes cant take the low down torque thru the gears from the turbo.

Bazzle

Thanks for the input Bazzle, but, why is it that the original g'box never had any probs with the turbo... since the turbo has been in the car for 2 years before this g'box exchange. One would think a reconditioned box would've had EVERYTHING checked and anything even looking like being dodgy replaced before putting it all back together.

Still think it's a faulty box and or parts that were put into it when reconditioned.

My understanding of warranty is that it covers you for something that broke or wore out after you bought the product. The fact that they sold it as a reconditioned gearbox suggests that they have checked everything and it is in good mechanical order this isnt the case. Smells of negligence. If all else fails then they have failed their duty of care to ensure they arnt selling your friend crap.

I reckon the way it would work is
1) the labour of removing and re-installing the box will need to be paid for, cause its not the 'mechanics' fault????
2) the reconditioned box should be just that, reconditioned. So it should be sent back to the guys who reconditioned it for a redo. This should be free of charge.

brighty wrote: 2.8d Hilux SR5 with aftermarket turbo

i dont think you will find a place in australia that will warranty this.


NICK

brighty wrote:

bazzle wrote: One would think a reconditioned box would've had EVERYTHING checked and anything even looking like being dodgy replaced before putting it all back together.

Still think it's a faulty box and or parts that were put into it when reconditioned.

depends if it was reconditioned or rebuilt.


NICK

HeathGQ wrote:I reckon the way it would work is
1) the labour of removing and re-installing the box will need to be paid for, cause its not the 'mechanics' fault????
2) the reconditioned box should be just that, reconditioned. So it should be sent back to the guys who reconditioned it for a redo. This should be free of charge.

that is true, and most respectable wrecking yards/gearbox shops will hold up to this and will fix your problem and have you back on the road as soon as possible. sure your friend may have only spent 1500-2000 with them but one problem could easily cost them 150,000 in future sales. To me there seems to be something dodge in there reasoning for not covering the box, all thou i do see a problem with the turbo. Or your mate isnt telling you the whole story.


NICK

Even the super dodgy do it yoursefl wreckers offer 30 days...at the least they should replace the box.

Warranty statements are meaningless in small claims - a supplier/maker must make or supply a product to last a reasonable amount of time - DO NOT be fooled that because they say there is no warranty, or that the warranty has expired you are not covered, you almost alwasy are and just need to push REALLY hard. What kinda costs are these, 2 or 3k? Definitely worth getting heard in small claims - the mechanic sill settle long before it gets there and smal claims are notorious in favour of the shafted, not the shafter...

NICK wrote: To me there seems to be something dodge in there reasoning for not covering the box, all thou i do see a problem with the turbo. Or your mate isnt telling you the whole story.

Me thinks you hit it on the head...

You should call this place yourself as a prospective customer, asking about warranty and shit see what story you get out of them.

NICK wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:I reckon the way it would work is
1) the labour of removing and re-installing the box will need to be paid for, cause its not the 'mechanics' fault????
2) the reconditioned box should be just that, reconditioned. So it should be sent back to the guys who reconditioned it for a redo. This should be free of charge.

that is true, and most respectable wrecking yards/gearbox shops will hold up to this and will fix your problem and have you back on the road as soon as possible. sure your friend may have only spent 1500-2000 with them but one problem could easily cost them 150,000 in future sales. To me there seems to be something dodge in there reasoning for not covering the box, all thou i do see a problem with the turbo. Or your mate isnt telling you the whole story.


NICK

woo woo... I said something right!!!! seriously though, agree here, somfin funny going on, either side of the story. From the mechanics side who installed 'gox, you would explain to the supplier that the hilux is turboed.... as the buyer, you'd want to make sure the work ios covered for what you have....

Bazzle

So what happened to the original box??

Aftermarket turbo... no warranty.
They are a weak box.IMO
Not if itll break but when.

Bazzle

bazzle wrote:So what happened to the original box??

Aftermarket turbo... no warranty.
They are a weak box.IMO
Not if itll break but when.

Bazzle

was an exchange box.. they got his good one and he got a dodgy one.

As for my mate telling the whole story.... I know for a fact that what he says is true!! He is a diesel mechanic himself, and knows if something aint right.... but after leaving work the last thing he wants to do is work on his car... this is why he had it put in by the 'reputable 4wd mechanic' (don't want to name names... the mechanic is not at fault here and shouldn't be dragged into it)

The outcome.... well, we are going to pick it up this weekend and he's going to rebuild the box himself!!! No point fightn a loosing battle that could drag on for god knows how long!!! And in the end could cost more than fixn the box itself..... as I said before... is just a lose-lose situation really!!!! Oh well, you learn by your mistakes I guess huh!!!

They might not be a good box but there is many storys of them lasting my brothers has lastered with a turbo trany gears and 35" tyres and towing a tool trailer for well over 100000 klm . i agree we dont have the whole story did it have oil put in it ???? because almost any repairer would just swap the box over again if this was fairdinkcome and you would have to where the labour. I have always used the same Mercanic and been happy to pay what he saids the bill is for this reason as a couple of times things have gone like this he has worn the bill as he knows ill be back if you shop around for the cheapest price some times you get what you pay for . Remember that products are consumer driven we demand the cheapest deal then winge when that is all we get.

I say get them both on here to put there side of the story forward then we will debate it

DAZ wrote:I say get them both on here to put there side of the story forward then we will debate it

Very true.
Classic example of what hearing both sides of a story
http://www.exploroz.com.au/Forum/View.a ... mQID=16799