Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi Guys, thinking of buying a County for touring and as a daily driver and was wanting to to know what you guys thought of them, what sort of fuel economy, any know problems etc.

Any help would be welcomed

I have a 1987 110 county (4BD1/LT85 5 speed/LT230) that I use as a touring vehicle and I love it and never plan to sell it. It is very comfortable, even with the standard seats.

It uses between 9 and 11 L/100 wherever I drive (a tiny bit more if lots of low range). The gearing with the 5 speed is really tall, and although my engine is in perfect condition you have to be doint 100km/h to keep it in 5th.

When I get back to Australia I will be fitting a turbo (the 4BD1 is almost the same internally and the same compression as the 4BD1T). My 4BD1 has 300000km on it but runs like new and doesn't use a drop of oil between services.

Sam (Strange Rover) has a county with a 4BD1 and LT95 4 speed.

The changeover between the LT95 (4 speed with integral T-case) and LT85 (Santana 5-speed) and LT230 Tcase was 1985/1986. The LT95 is the strongest gearbox LR ever made, and the LT85 is probably the strongest 5-speed LR ever made, however it had the typical problem of lubrication to the 5th gear and transfer case input gear. Fortunately mine was rebuilt by Mal Story before I bought the truck, with a new mainshaft, improved 5th gear bearings and cross-drilled T-case input gear - so I don't expect it ever to have problems.

Both boxes have almost the same ratios so the 5 speed has an extra gear, which is handy for the highway, but the 4 speed is still fine on the highway at 120 or so.

The only other problems I can think of, are that if used a lot offroad, the front axle housing can bend because of the weight of the engine (but this can happen to rangies also). It is a good idea to get the underneath of the housing laminated (Mal story does this).

They are a wicked bit of gear - the engines are highly desirable as far as I am concerned - turbo the are fantastic and can product huge amounts of torque at low rpm. Good for over 400,000K between rebuilds if you treat them right (filters and oil ever 5000K)


Tom

RaginRover wrote:Good for over 400,000K between rebuilds if you treat them right (filters and oil ever 5000K)

Double that and you might be there Tom - they should do 600000-1000000 between rebuilds, and they do in trucks (pulling heavier loads and revving a lot higher).

Got an '86 5spd LT85 one. Only done 206K but have kept good records of fuel. Between 9 to 13 litres/100km. Have to agree that to keep them in 5th you need to be doing 90+, but then that makes it a true overdrive gear.

Great car for touring and not so bad as a daily driver (although mine has sat in a shed for 2 years while I am o/s).

As for the 4BD1 engine, they have a top reputation in reliability. A company I worked for once had an Isuzu NPR series truck with the same engine and it was not just treated badly but seriously abused by staff striaght from new. When I moved on it had around 330K on the clock and still running. OK it did blow white smoke until warmed and only did around 70km top speed but trust me after seeing what abuse it could take, I don't think mine will need a rebuild for a long long time!

the_grubb wrote:Great car for touring and not so bad as a daily driver (although mine has sat in a shed for 2 years while I am o/s).

Join the club.

At least there is plenty of mud on this side of the earth! And plenty of spares!








Where abouts in Germany are you located?

Might bump into you as I work throughout europe but based in the UK (for now).

Thanks Guys, Makes me feel a lot better. How long should the 5th gear last under normal circumstances or should the mod that you have had done Ben be done ASAP?

Also, is the Turbo a nessesity(SP?) or not? I had a 4.2L Diesel Pootrol and could live with it with 35's and 4.3's in the diffs. Are we talking much the same in performance terms? I only plan to run a maximum of 33's on the new one.

5th gear life I can't tell you but I am sure some one will know.

I would say no to the necesesity of the turbo, maybe adds some fun but not necessary, but if I did I would intercool it. From memory (as my parts catalogue is a long ways away!) the turbo version has under piston cooling and perhaps another few things. My view is the engine would handle it, but is it necessary and will 5thed handle it?

I think your best step is to find one then go from there.

Your 4.2 on paper has more go. This link Marks4wd
Will tell you more. Once again from the top of my head, I think the turbo'ed 4Bd1T has 90kW and 315Nm at similar revs to the non-T. But do a search on yahoo I am sure you will find more info.

4BD1 97 bhp@ 3200, 188 lb-ft@1900
4BD1T 115 bhp@3000, 231 lb-ft @ 2200

the_grubb wrote:
Where abouts in Germany are you located?

Might bump into you as I work throughout europe but based in the UK (for now).

I am in Karlsruhe(soth west - next to france) , I will also be travelling around Europe for work. We will have to catch up. Unfortunately I have a golf over here and not a landie. Not really any 4x4ing in Germany.

Maggot4x4 wrote:Thanks Guys, Makes me feel a lot better. How long should the 5th gear last under normal circumstances or should the mod that you have had done Ben be done ASAP?

Also, is the Turbo a nessesity(SP?) or not? I had a 4.2L Diesel Pootrol and could live with it with 35's and 4.3's in the diffs. Are we talking much the same in performance terms? I only plan to run a maximum of 33's on the new one.

The 5th gear problem was oil starvation to the bearings. Mal fits new bearings that fix the problem permanently. However he advises that when on extended highway trips (with new or old bearings) that you drop it back to 4th every so often to re-oil the bearings. So no big deal and good for the engine too. I would however fit an oil feed plate to the transfer case to splash lubricate the T-case input gear and the back of the mainshaft. This is a 5-minute job and you can make the plate yourself from the old Pto cover plate if you have a mig and a short piece of pipe (or you can buy it from LR).

A turbo isn't a necessity. I run 285/75/16's (33") and it pulls them fine. I drove a work Cruiser troopy (4.2 NA diesel) just after getting out of the county and they seemed about the same in performance, if anything the 110 was a bit better. The motor has heaps of torque and 99Bhp is plenty for the weight of the truck - a turbo just helps keep the speed up when going up steep hills.

The factory 4BD1T runs 5psi of boost only. There are two different variants (2 different turbos - one with wastegate and one without), and a few different pump tunings (some later 4BD1T pumps have an aneroid - boost compensator). Due to all this some variants put out up to 135bhp, still only with 5psi of boost. None of the 4BD1T'S ran intercoolers as at 5psi the head losses through the intercooler are equal to any performance gain through cooling. The only differences between the 4BD1 and 4BD1T is that the T had an oil spray bar to spray the borttom of the cylinders and had "alfin" pistons (the later model 4BD1's also had this).

Further to Ben's last post, as I recall, the oil cooler in the 4BD1-T is different to that in the 4BD1 (has an extra cooling plate).

Bush65 wrote:Further to Ben's last post, as I recall, the oil cooler in the 4BD1-T is different to that in the 4BD1 (has an extra cooling plate).

Cheers John, didn't know that.

Well it sounds like a good thing. Have to tell the misus she may be driving a County.

Maggot4x4 wrote:Well it sounds like a good thing. Have to tell the misus she may be driving a County.

My wife likes driving ours, the only hard thing to get used to is that the clutch is a bit heavy (like all 110's) and you cannot change gears quickly (with either the LT95 or 85). When the LT85 box is cold the 1st-2nd change can be a bit difficult - but you get use to it and running Castrol VMX80 or Mobil 1 in the box minimises this and improves the shifting.

Well it's not a County but I had a look at that Diesel Rangie that was for sale on here last week and now I have a new truck.

Specs are as follows:

1986 Rangie.
4BD1
LT85 Santana (Rebuilt at Newtown NSW)
LT230
Maxi Axels
Rear Detroit
Air Locker front
Hurricane Mags
32" BFG Muds
120L Brown and Davis Tank
Completely rewired and all electric's work
Snorkle
Bilsteins
Rangie Spares Flares
New Clutch
New bushes all round


I am sure I missed a few things like air etc and the fact there is not a scratch on it (I'm sure that will change).

So what do you guys think?

Piccy's Here http://community.webshots.com/user/boggor100

Anyone want to buy my 100 series?

Nice!! Im jealous.... missed that in for sale? could have spent a few hours dreaming about it.....and then getting back to reality of not having any $, one toy at a time I guess!!!
how much?
plans for it? turbo, intercooler, lux centres, barwork?
how tidy is the conversion?
fair bit less space than a 110 for touring though isnt it? more comfy though!!
give us some feedback on how the rear detroit + fulltime 4wd feels onroad, simply for curiosities sake....
sounds like a well setup rig

Cheers
Daryl

Looks really good, nice specs. Was it originally a VM diesel. I know another ex-vm rangie that was converted to a 4BD1.

If I was you I would sell the rear detroit and fit an ARB, but that is a matter of personal preference I suppose.

Looks like a great buy, if I had seen it I
would have bought it, nice one.

JEFF

Well for those interested,
RANGE ROVER 4 Door 1989 4WD 2.5ltr manual, 300 Tdi, R380 grbox, LT230Q Tranfer case ECF 888 GC $8000ono (03)53694341 bacchus Marsh
SMS Me Options Fresh this week

Nice one!

I think you have got the ultimate for a tourer/daily driver (bar the detroit rear....). The extra comfort of the rangey for your needs is more of a priority than the slight advantage of potential better offroad cababilities of a 110.

Enjoy!

ISUZUROVER wrote:Looks really good, nice specs. Was it originally a VM diesel. I know another ex-vm rangie that was converted to a 4BD1.

If I was you I would sell the rear detroit and fit an ARB, but that is a matter of personal preference I suppose.

Nah, It had the 3.5l in it. The previous owner to they guy I bought it off did a complete swap from a county. This guy rebuilt the transfer and gearbox and did big end bearings. The motor only has 240k on it so should last another 10 - 15 years with good servicing (I hope).

The detroit dosen't make any noises or do anything strange at this stage so I will see how it goes. I will keep an eye on tyre wear on the rear as well an if it gets too bad I may consider a airlocker or maxi for the rear.

Picking up and ARB front winch bar tomorrow for $200. Once I see it I will decide which rangie to put it on.

Made a few calls re turbos. Do you think I can find anyone willing to separate a turbo and manifold from a running 4BD1T. NO Berrima Diesel want 3-3500 for a new one. Anyone have any other ideas of what may work?

And if anyone has a drivers side electric window regulator spare let me know.

Cheers

There was a diesel place in melbourne that was selling the manifolds and turbos from 4BD1T's when they had them for about $700 - think it was called vic truck wreckers or something like that.

It is pretty easy to do the conversion (even using non-factory bits) - the rangie I mentioned earlier is running an IHI turbo from a subaru WRX with a flange welded to the cast-iron manifold to adapt it.