Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Simple question, how strong is the landrover locker???(bolt in the end style.)

You mean the old style locker with one really long axle that you have to move in by turning a nut on the hub with a spanner?

Yes thats the one!!

I have only ever seen a couple of them, they are pretty rare - I think the weakest part would still be the axle strength (whatever axle they have) rather than the locking mechanism.

I actually do have the original design diagram for this locker! I was told that everything in the diffs are upgraded to heavy duty Salisbury items to cope! Just trying to find out if it will handle my holden motor and want opinions. Also how much would a Isuzu 2.4 C diesel and adapter to fit a series g,box be worth? the motor only has 500 hrs on the clock and runs well!

Thanks!

Years ago when i used to be in the Landrover Owners club in VIC, everyone that did hard trips in a Series landrover with Rover type diff's had one of these type of lockers. From memory, the rover type (there was also a Sailsbury version) used a modified Holden Sailsbury type diff center, with special side gears, mated to the standard rover diff center. I dont ever remember anyone breaking any axles or diff centers on any, but it highlighted just how weak the rover type diff crownwheel/pinion is. Some people stripped Crownwheel/Pinions on the rover type diffs in--back then--hard terrain...Jacmac used to make them.

Nick

And he still makes patrs for them I believe

Michael.

Yes parts are still made for them a friend of mine has a price list for all the bits! I just dont have any personal experiance with them as a unit!

I've seen a few photos of them but never one in the flesh. It seems to be a nice simple idea but you will end up stripping crown wheels. Series crown wheels are as soft as butter and you can strip teeth even with standard open diffs.

Why does every-one complain about the strength of LandRover diffs ? I have had my 88 sIII for over a year, it was a 4 cyl (Burnt the valves running it on AVGAS!) bought a 6cyl holden ex. millitary chassis and transferd the motor(lasted just under a week!) blew that motor!!! went out and bought a new 202 red motor straight out of the shop window, in the time I have had the 6 cyl's I have blown 2nd gear, 4th is floating around somewhere in there now, twisted unis and removed the tread from a couple of pairs of 11.5in wide tyres! I admit that I drive the old girl hard and she has become a force to be recon'd with in our local 4wd club because of this! Mates with lockers shake their heads at were I will take the little blue beast without to much encouragement! When the back wheels actually get traction I have had her up on the back wheels! Ok.. I do mistreat my poor landy but as yet I havent had a problem with the diffs! the only reason I want to replace the diff with a locker is because the axle splines are starting to show some ware now and I have a rebuilt locker sitting in the shed! (came as a spare with the new shorty I just bought) I love my landy because I can flog the crap out of it!

I agree, the land-rover/range rover axles are a lot stronget than people give them credit for. What rear axle are you running? With a 202 you would be breaking heaps of 10-spline axles surely?

On my 109" IIA I have broken:
2x10 spline rear rover axles (when it had a rover diff)
1x24 spline non-genuine salisbury axle (after conversion to Salisbury rear and Stage 1 front axles)
One 4.7:1 front crownwheel and pinion.
All this on 32" wheels with a 2.25P/2.25D
Have not broken anything on 33's with a maxi-drive rear.

On my Dad's 88" IIA we have broken:
2x10 spline rear axles
1xrear 4.7:1 pinion (snapped the nut end off the pinion so may have been due to overtightening).
The 88" does get used occasionally for pulling stumps out and work like that.

And although I drive really hard tracks I try and be gentle on the components.

Landylad,

It's wierd how you haven't broken any diff parts on your Landy, my diff problems have only really shown up on my RR.

My old LWB SIIA soft top
1x10 spline rear axle

Stage I V8
1 front C&P (side carrier bearings failed was the reason)

Range Rover
2 x diff centres
1 x 24 spline axle

I put extra weight and power or RR the reason. my IIA went everywhere mates in modded GQ's were going, use to annoy my friends to no end. miss it now

What size tyres are you running DAS and what size were you running on the IIA? Sounds like you need to get the hybrid project finished and do the offroading in that.

The power makes a big difference, but for the diffs the setup is one of the most critical things - who set up the your diffs and do you have pictures of what the pattern looked like with the paint?

Also, I have found that the strength of 24 spline axles is something like:
Maxi and Jacmac
.
.
.
.
.
.
Genuine
.
.
.
Non-Genuine.

Sorry, I didnt count the axle splines last time I had them out... as far as I know they are standard diffs never had the centres out to look at them! When I got it I drove it to work for a week and thought it was a bit noisy in the drive train, I found out that the transfer was the only component with any substantial amount of oil in it! I cringed at the thought of the damage I must have done.(all of my driving was on the highway! 80km a day!) I topped all the levels up and havnt had a problem since. I even drove it with something that resembled mud in the rear diff, my last water crossing was a month before!(the blokes at the workshop were disgusted!) All this must sound like crap when talking to other Landrover owners but my mate NickB who posts on this forum from time to time was there for it all and will vouch for me! (he's broken more on his defender!)We both think that it's just one of those freaks of vehicles that just wont die!!

SWB series vehicles are a lot easier on the drivetrain than a LWB, which could be the main reason you haven't had many problems. The weight of an 88" should be somewhere between 1200 and 1500kg so they are pretty light (my ex army 109" ute is the best part of 2tonne).

You shouldn't have any diff problems in the 88" if you look after it, but you will break an axle sooner or later if you have the stock 10-spline ones.

It should be light as it sits now its a 88' ute(tub rear) and I swear that the holden motor is lighter than the 2 1/4 petrol lump! I would post some pics if I knew how!

My old man had a 1981 series three ute, ex airforce I think, had a brand new 186 motor in it. By the time he'd sold it, many yrs later, he'd rebuilt the engine, reconditioned the gearbox and only broken 1 rear axle. We did a lot of hard 4wding in W.A. He ran his own club back then.

I was told that the axles are cast and as such are brittle when cold, if you drive them around a bit to warm the steel you'll very rarely bust an axle. If you jump in and flog it cold you'll keep breaking them.
Don't know how true this is but it seemed to work on the series threes dad had and the series twos i've had.

disco95 wrote:I was told that the axles are cast and as such are brittle when cold, if you drive them around a bit to warm the steel you'll very rarely bust an axle. If you jump in and flog it cold you'll keep breaking them.
Don't know how true this is but it seemed to work on the series threes dad had and the series twos i've had.

Sorry but this is wrong. The average axle (if everything is working properly and properly lubricated) won't get very hot in use, and certainly not enough to have an effect on the elasticity or overall strength of the steel. The parts in the axle that generate any noticeable amount of heat are the crownwheel and pinion and the brakes. The small amount of heat (not usually more than 30oC above ambient (maximum) generated by the diff is distributed to the oil (and to some extent to the axle shafts), but heating them by such a small amount would have no measurable effect.

ISUZUROVER wrote:What size tyres are you running DAS and what size were you running on the IIA? Sounds like you need to get the hybrid project finished and do the offroading in that.

The power makes a big difference, but for the diffs the setup is one of the most critical things - who set up the your diffs and do you have pictures of what the pattern looked like with the paint?

Tyres on the IIA were 32.5" (7.5R16's) Jeep Service tyres.

Hybrid is back underway, check members section for updates soon

When I said diffs failed, I mean the pin in the centre let go or the sungears smashed, not CW&P, only had the one of them fail.

Ah, OK - yes the standard 2-spider diff is pretty weak, however a lot of the problem IME seems to come from the cross shaft spinning with the gears (when worn) which allows the locating circlips to wear down and/or be pushed off. The IIA diff doesn't have this problem as the split pin stops the cross shaft from moving.

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I swear that the holden motor is lighter than the 2 1/4 petrol lump!

Yes indeed it is lighter. The petrol has the same block as the diesel variant making it a tough little heavy power plant.

isuzurover,
That sounds pretty reasonable to me. I was just going on information that i came across years ago.
I still stand by the fact that the series III worked its nuts off with little mishap in the axle diff area.

disco95 wrote:isuzurover,
That sounds pretty reasonable to me. I was just going on information that i came across years ago.
I still stand by the fact that the series III worked its nuts off with little mishap in the axle diff area.

That is quite possible and I don't doubt it. If it was a LWB it had a salisbury rear which is very strong, if it was a SWB then they are much less likely to break things due to the lower weight, and the military often obtained better and stronger components for their landies than the civillian ones (and metallurgy was greatly improved by the `80's).

The Jac Mac manual locker which was in my old car had Jac Mac 24 spline rear axles.

Was strong and didnt break anything.

Dave.

Thank you everyone for your input it has been very informative! Iwill take some pics as soon as I can so you can see how my landy is coming along!

Thanks, Chad.