Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Well you know how one thing leads to anotherthis a typical story working on old trucks. Trying to find a mystery noise from underneath, so I decide to check the rear drum brakes and after finally removing the drum I find that the shoes need replacing which I do. Driving round happy about another job I have managed to do I notice the brake fluid light come on, Oh shit. I find that fluid is pissing out of one of the rear cylinders so tonight I replace both sides and bleed the syatem which leads me to my new problem, the handbrake wont hold , any suggestions would be welcome.


Cheers Dazz

P.s I still haven't found the mystery sound

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Is your handbrake on the rear drums or driveshaft? (i'm assuming rear brakes)
If on the drums, then your new pads wouldn't be worn in yet, and won't grip as well as the old set - is there any fluid on the brake shoes or inside of the drums? this could make them slip aswell.

What does the noise sound like? ie. knocking, whirring, whizzing, grinding etc .. from where-ish?

Stackson45 wrote:Is your handbrake on the rear drums or driveshaft? (i'm assuming rear brakes)
If on the drums, then your new pads wouldn't be worn in yet, and won't grip as well as the old set - is there any fluid on the brake shoes or inside of the drums? this could make them slip aswell.

What does the noise sound like? ie. knocking, whirring, whizzing, grinding etc .. from where-ish?

BJ42 has the handbrake in the rear drums. in fitting new shoes in the rear, you need to re-adjust the handbrake starting at the brake end, and working your way up to the lever end. Did you measure the diameter of your drums, and were they within specification? there are oversize brake shoes available for landcruisers and if the shoes you took out were oversize, and you have fitted up standard size shoes, they won't go close to touching the drum on brake application. just something worth checking out.

cheers

Brian

oops. It does say BJ42 in his sig line.....

Thanks for the advice guys,might need bedding in then all adjustment seem fine. As for the noise it's more like a clunk / knock it only lasts for about 2-3 seconds just after changing gear. I can really only hear it a low speeds but I think it more to do with the rest of the truck gets noisier and drowns it out. Its coming from underneath but it is very hard to pin point, middle to back I guess.


Cheers Dazz

Could possibly be excessive backlash in gears in diff or gearbox? will clunk when you back off and accel, if it's got enough play.
I spose just park in neutral, wobble and twist stuff see if somethings lose?

Rob

could be the tailshaft unis and/or slip joints? might just be backlash in the diff, the noise can be transmitted back up through the gearbox/shifters into the cab making it sound like it's in the middle. also in a 40 remember you are sitting almost directly over the rear axle, so 'rear' noises are very close.

cheers

Brian

Thanks Brian and Rob
Is there an easy way to find this problem. I have spent time under neath the truck wiggling and jiggling things so to speak. I can rotate the rear tailshaft about 5-10 deg either way, is this backlash. the uni's dont seam to have any play.

Cheers Dazz

brian, side issue but my unis are shite, wheres the cheapest place for them in NSW mate? syd/newy?? any ideas?

mate the brakes are shitters on 40s til ya get it sussed.

and tranny handbrakes blow goats! mine doesnt work and still leaks fluid, gotta fix that one day.

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote:brian, side issue but my unis are shite, wheres the cheapest place for them in NSW mate? syd/newy?? any ideas?

tailshaft unis? Don Kyatt, repco, robbos, autobarn, the dodgy spare parts place on the corner - just about anywhere will have them. fix them sooner rather than later, if they get too gay they can flog out the yokes then you need to get another whole tailshaft.

just searching for posts on tailshaft play and found this thread. so i thought this might be an appropriate place to ask..

a) what you do when you have about 10-25deg of play in your tailshaft when in neutral?

also i too have just recently pulled off the drums with a mate to fix the parkbrake (done) and

b) find out why i get a pulsing brake pedal (pedal doesnt sink) when stoped (not stopping) at lights in neutral.. the brake fluid got topped up after bleeding the rear, and having a look this morning the top of the rear diff was a bit stained with waht could of been break fluid near the brake cable junction on the diff. everything seems pretty tight as far as i can tell.

ive got the same noise too and try and minimise it with easy gear changes.. almost sounds/feels like the rear diff shifting..

anyway would be interested in your feedback..

if your pedal is pulsating whilst stationary, you would suspect that there is something amiss with your brake booster...

tried ringing up repco n stuff and from the sounds of it the 84 bj42 doesnt have a brake booster.. do i just need to find a yota parts dealer instead?

have a look where the brake pedal connects to the rod that pokes through the firewall.. on the engine bay side you should see a large round "thingy"

should look something like this..

http://store1.yimg.com/I/coolfj40_1817_1713008

and then your brake master cylinder bolts onto the front of that..

i am fairly sure that your rig would have one..

they take manifold vacuum and use it to aid in braking. check the hose connected to it for any leaks or poor connection. try disconnecting the hose to the manifold and see if the pulsating goes away at idle.. (you might wanna block the hose off to the manifold when doing this)

yeah that was the next thing we suspected and I have one of those, it doesnt look to old and busted but kinda fresh (last 5ish yrs maybe?).. I will check it out when i can. its only happened intermittently and its usually on a hill after going for the first run of the day.. i'll keep an eye on it and see what the workshop manual has to say about it too

now wot about that tailshaft movement? whats acceptable play?

shorty_f0rty wrote:
b) find out why i get a pulsing brake pedal (pedal doesnt sink) when stoped (not stopping) at lights in neutral..

this is almost definitely caused by a faulty check valve (one way valve) in the brake booster vacuum line. You can get an inline check valve (I think the toyota ones are on the booster drum where the line goes in) off a Nissan or similar and it should make your pulsation go away, and as a side benefit your brakes will work better, and your engine will idle smoother.

cheers

Brian

FIX YOU R UNI'S!!!!!!!

At best when they let go, you will be in a carpark and hear a ping and not be able to go anywhere unless you put it in 4WD and remove the excess tailshaft before moving.

AT WORST

YOu could be hurtling (hard for a 40 I know) down the freeway and do a really cool impersonation of a polevaulter as your tailshaft digs into the pavement. Try scoring above 7 for artistic flair. Or out in bum *&^& no where at the bottom of a very big hill on the way out and hear that same carpark ping, except no you have to fix it in the dirt mile from anywhere or get towed alllllllll the way out.

scary huh

First of all
Welcome aboard Busiboy good to have another 40 owner
My noise is getting worse
These Uni's is there a way to tell if they need replacing apart from a noise as I am sick of replacing things on the truck and dont fix the problem

Cheers Dazz

Grab either side of the uni (shaft & flange) and twist back & forth(like a kiddie chinese burn?). There should be no movement.

Do the same with the slip joint. Should be no more than 1mm of radial play.(but you can get away with 1-2 mm).


Al

Basically, like Sixty said any movement is bad.

If you have any movement in the actual uni they are shot.

Other symtoms include,

A grinding sounds as you get higher up in speed.

Excessive vibration (yeah I know in a 40 it is hard) that comes from the centre and is speed related ie, gets worse the faster you go.

Clunking as you load up the drive line.
although this can be diff related.

A tip, if you do one, do them all in that tailshaft. One may be gone and the others appear ok but you won't be far away from pulling the tailshaft back out again to do the next one. Once one goes it rapidly accelerates the wear on the rest.

Another tip, put your uni's in the coldest freezer you have if you don't have a press, if you hit the caps use wood block between the cap and the hammer as they are a bit fragile. Tapping gently with a lil hammer will be ok. Freezing may help get them in a bit.

If you want more let me know I got pretty got at changing them on a Hilux I had, damn thing ate em more than anything else.

have fun

Thanks Al & busiboy will get under the truck tonight and have a look see

Cheers Dazz

Hey Dumbdunce
I don't see a BJ40 idling smoother because of a vacuum check valve.
Also if you have a booster the hose should run to the alternator not the manifold as previously stated.
If you can not find play in your shafts ,pull them off and try them in the vice, also rotate the U/J through its travel and check for binding or lumpy travel.
If your diff feels like it's moving it possibly is, try tightening your U Bolts and check for broken leaves
J Top

Plus
on the rear handbrake 40s etc there is a cable between the 2 shoes that has to run through a guide or the H/B is crap.It is easy to miss the guide and run the cable loose between the shoes.
J Top

Well on the advise of you all, I have just removed the rear tailshaft, and the uni's are a bit wobberly so I will replace them and see what happens

Cheers Dazz

WOO HOO, IT FIXED

Yep its finally fixed, thanks for all your help guys, it turned out it was the rear uni's after all. And let me tell your this a bitch of a job, i have cuts and bruise's and a lot of four letter words were said.


Cheers Dazz

bj42turbo wrote:WOO HOO, IT FIXED

Yep its finally fixed, thanks for all your help guys, it turned out it was the rear uni's after all. And let me tell your this a bitch of a job, i have cuts and bruise's and a lot of four letter words were said.


Cheers Dazz

About bloody time
Now get out there and see if you can get some mud in 'em

bj42turbo wrote:WOO HOO, IT FIXED

Yep its finally fixed, thanks for all your help guys, it turned out it was the rear uni's after all. And let me tell your this a bitch of a job, i have cuts and bruise's and a lot of four letter words were said.


Cheers Dazz

which shaft were you wroking on? cuts and bruises???
good o now do what graeme said i'll be waiting at the other side