Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Looking to get the 10,000lb low mount unit.

Looks pretty good on specs.

5.5hp motor, 265:1 gearing though. Warn has 165:1.

225 amp draw at 2000kgs with 3.35m/Min.
435 amp draw at 4500kgs with 1.8m/Min.

Cheaper than Magnum, Warn and Brawn.

Yes they are slower than a warn, but they are built much better than a warn too, proper roller bearings instead of plastic bushes and the gearbox is way stronger as well. Unless you are really worried about a few seconds while winching it would be a good option.

for interest sake, Warn appears to have brought out Magnum or have always owned them under the other name. Check out Warn's new budget series. www.warn.com

i'd pay the dosh and get a brawn, everyone seems so happy with the product.

The inside word is that the Magnum was requested by ARB as a cheap alternative to counter lost sales against Brawn, Ox and Tmax. Hence it is a cheap off shore winch.
The Brawn, Ox and Tmax all come from the same factory...only difference is that the Brawn is fully remanufactured here in Aus to be rust, water and corrosion proof and is totally rewired...saving around ten amps at no load and making it heaps more reliable.
The result of all the mods that Brawn do is a far more efficient winch that is guaranteed to work under water. The other major factor is that the Brawn does not suffer the returns that the Ox and the Tmax do mainly because of the inherent faults (or lack of quality control) on the wiring.
Get the Brawn!

The Brawn, Ox and Tmax all come from the same factory

Dead set, are they?

So far I've been told: Warn made in USA, Magnum made in USA, Ox made in USA, T-Max, Brawn, Premium and a couple I've forgotten made in China.

Anyone know for sure?

Try www.tmaxtools.com and you will find that TJM OX and T-Max are made by them. As previously stated by Mudtoy, so are Brawn.

Brawn started the importing from China. R&L copied the idea and tried to push Brawn out of the market. Tmax became known as the R&L brand and sold them to TJM rebadged as the Ox. Most of the TJMs dropped the Ox electric because of the numerous problems, failures and recalls.

I know this because I have been sponsored by Brawn almost since they began. I have assisted with the design, construction and importing of them including working on the Brawn himount with Colin Pond.

Colin has qualifications and extensive experience within the electrical trades and although I am a qualified Biophysicist I have also worked for a number of years on research projects within the mechanical engineering department at Melbourne university (as well as building my own comp vehicle and competing at all styles of events over the last ten years).

Colin recognised the short comings of these chinese winches from the very first shipment. Hence the Brawn winch is a far evolved product and whilst the Ox electric was generally short lived the Tmax has also progressed (but only as far as improving the quality control) which has extended to the remaining Oxs.

The Brawn winches are not made by Tmax but all of them do originate from the same production line in China (they are identical until Colin remanufactures the Brawns here in Australia).

In actual fact the above is now untrue as Colin has sourced a new and improved production company with tighter quality controls resulting in an even better Brawn winch. It will be rather exciting when we get to see the new winches in the next shipment.

I think you will also find that whilst the Warns may be assembled in the good ol' US of A, they are actually manufactured in Brazil and Mexico.

Hey mudtoy, as you are a reporter of sorts you should be perceived as being unbiased otherwise your show will turn into one big commercial. You obviously know a great deal about the Brawn product. Why don't you drop in and spend some time with Mal Leslie. I'm sure he can help with your knowledge of the Warn product. Once you have both sides of the story you will be in a better position to comment on the merits of each product.

He's just saying what he knows and giving his opinion, what else can he say? I wasn't aware that people had to give out facts and biased opinion wasn't allowed on this site! Everyone's opinion is biased by something...

OldGold wrote:He's just saying what he knows and giving his opinion, what else can he say? I wasn't aware that people had to give out facts and biased opinion wasn't allowed on this site! Everyone's opinion is biased by something...

You seem to have missed the point. The bias you and I have is due to experience and personal preference not commercial relationships.

The team at brawn, including myself have met with Mal (in fact Mal has copied some of Brawn's upgrades)..., we have worked inside and out with many Warn products (Brawn haven't always been around) and I ran a modified Warn for many years. I have also had numerous email conversations with the Warn tech staff in America.

Yes I am biased to the Brawn...for four reasons;

1. I have used a variety of winches in and out of comps for over ten years and whilst the Warn himount will always be the weapon of choice for most competitors (because of its no load line speed) the Brawn for me is a better choice because of it's superior pulling power and reliability (my first hand experience of using each for years).

2. Brawn is a totally Aussie owned company, no frills, no misconceptions...Colin the owner is straight down the line and if you ever speak with him you will be impressed by his knowledge, innovation and motivation. I have no qualms in supporting an under dog with an awesome product...I love a challenge.

3. Brawn was the first company to put money up for 4wd TV. Colin has been our most unwavering supporter from day one and not for selfish reasons. Just as we wanted this to be a positive forum for the viewers, so has he. I believe the show would not have done so well without his support.
Anyway, the fact is that he as other sponsors have, was willing to put his money where his mouth was and support this project. If you watch the show at all...you realistically have them to thank for it.

4. I have seen the winches on the test bench in direct comparison.

There are many misconceptions about the show...and I would like to clarify one of them...whilst the show has huge financial potential if it is 'picked up'...it is only a reality now because my wife and I run another business that pays our bills. Fortunately this business only takes up 6 months of our lives and used to leave us with 6 months of holidays. This is now 15 hour days of making 4wd TV...which I am loving...but is still hard work.

So yes I am biased towards the Brawn but do feel that I have the experience, knowledge and information to do so. Why shouldn't I support a good Aussie product that I believe to be better.

mudtoy wrote:So yes I am biased towards the Brawn but do feel that I have the experience, knowledge and information to do so. Why shouldn't I support a good Aussie product that I believe to be better.

That was my point. Even if he heas 'commercial' reasons to say so I don't think he's being out of line by stating his opinion.

Oldgold, If someone indicating they were from Warn was giving advice on how good their product was, you know the source and bias of the information. I think it is only being suggested that you should declare your association if you are pushing a product that you have a financial in.

mudtoy wrote:Brawn was the first company to put money up for 4wd TV.

He might not have said "I have financial interests in backing Brawn" but it's not like he was trying to hide it either. I for one was just appreciative of the information, I think you really have to take anything you read off the internet with a pinch salt anyways, no matter who's mouth it comes from. Though I do agree with you, p76rangie.

I've got the Ox hydraulic 10 000lb winch. It has been on the front on my Rodeo for almost 2 1/2 years. Does not get much use but has been under mud and water a few times. The cable has been in salt water during a recovery of someone ese. It has seen many many beach trips.

It still works and th only maintenance I have done is to unspool the rope, hose it off and respool it after some of the trips.

It is also heaps lighter than an electric winch which is a plus on a torsion bar vehicle.

It's a bit slow on recovery speed but you can rev the car up to get it a bit faster.

Before anyone asks why I bought it (other brands supposedly better blah blah blah) this one only cost me $210 for the Rodeo hydraulic hoses and the winch was free from work

Hmmm, looks like the Brawn is the go then.

So is the previous comment that they have roller bearings versus Warn plastic bushings correct?



Hey Utemad! Got any more of those suckers at work??

The bearings in the Brawn have been upgraded over the Ox and others.

The Ox Hydraulic is a great winch and whilst I am unsure of it's origin it certainly does not come from the same place as the Ox electric, Brawn and Tmax.

I have no financial interest in Brawn other than they sponsor my race vehicles with product and they assist in paying the costs of the show in return for advertising space.

I think the Ox Hydraulic is the same as a Mile Marker in the US but am not sure if they are made by Mile Marker or just re-badged, same as TJM.

Aside from that, I think the original Q was asked regarding electric, not hydro.

I reckon there is definitely a market for another high mount winch.
My 9000lb low mount pulls well but is bloody slow and trying to drive and winch when under load and not run over the cable is clutch frying stuff even with low range gears. An auto would be much better for this.
But if the Brawn is as good as what is claimed, comes with 50mtrs of nylon rope, waterproofed, higher rated pulling power and 30-40% cheaper it will sell well.
I'd certainly be in the market purely from a price & speed point of view.
Also the fact that there is local input and back up is good.
Warn have had it too good for too long especially with the 8274 as there is no competition.

There is an article back on page one in relation to Premier winches. They actually advertise that the motor runs in roller bearings. I'd be amazed with Warns reputation if they didn't. I must say that I looked hard on my Premier when I bought it to see where it was made and couldn't find anything. Maybe they didn't want me to know it was manufactured in China.

See http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=31358

My post with some info on winch comparo. Can email whole article if you wish.


Regards

i can sell u a brand new T-MAX 9500LB ELECTRIC WINCH 5.5HP MOTOR
$1150-00 to you door (inc freight) rrp $1500-00

i also sell t-max 11,000lb winches . i will have to find out a price for u.

rock hopper wrote:i can sell u a brand new T-MAX 9500LB ELECTRIC WINCH 5.5HP MOTOR
$1150-00 to you door (inc freight) rrp $1500-00

i also sell t-max 1100lb winches . i will have to find out a price for u.

i hope you mean 11000lbs

Gribble wrote:

rock hopper wrote:i can sell u a brand new T-MAX 9500LB ELECTRIC WINCH 5.5HP MOTOR
$1150-00 to you door (inc freight) rrp $1500-00

i also sell t-max 1100lb winches . i will have to find out a price for u.

i hope you mean 11000lbs

i agree or it would be more productive having a pull yourself