Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:27 pm**

Hi guys,
Ive just blown another gearbox in my ute, rather than just changing it with another mq box and waiting for it to break i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on what could be put in that would handle a 383 chev twin lockers and 36" centipedes?
I was thinking about a GQ 5spd and transfer, and putting in GQ or GU diffs (so the rear shaft stays straight), probably just weld leaf spring perches onto the new tubes?

How strong is the gq 5spd, i figure the transfer should be strong enough?

Can my rear MQ H233 air locker be used in the GQ H233?

Thanks for any replies.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:14 pm**

I know people put nissan cabstars sometimes behind diesels and 8's but I heard once upon a time a cM210UD motor will fit so I recon the box may too.... 175 kw and 480++ NM I think he said - rumor though - never hear of it before....

Best solution - Tough turbo 700 with 60 series transfer and crawlers or without crawlers maybe a better be - don't know if GQ box will bolt in - doubt it as it would be too popular as far as cheap 5 speed goes.... have to fab mounts, new bell housing kit etc too I think....

Unsure about diff but centres should be the same - just axle width may vary... Sure kingy and Screwy and the others who know more will be of more use....

Mk

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:34 pm**

yea, i was thinking turbo 700 and lt230 rover tcase, but for the adaptor alone to bolt a t700 to lt230 marks adapters want nearly a grand... then i gotta find a lt230 and t700, tranny cooler, torque converter etc.

How strong are 60 series transfers? and how easily do they bolt to t700s?

As far as putting a GQ box behind the chev, all ive gotta do is buy a bellhousing and make up gearbox mounts, i'm already running a GQ turbo diesel clutch.
GQ axles are quite a bit wider than MQ ones, thats why i'd have to put the front axle in as well - wider track :twisted:

I could then sell my axles with disk brake rear and arbs to finance the GQ ones?
From what i hear the cabstar box is similar to the MQ 5spd and bolts up to the same transfer, i broke a transfer last time so want a stronger one of them too!

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:05 pm**

I have been contemplating this too. If my gearbox is too expensive to repair I will be dropping in a GQ 5 speed and transfer case. The only thing I am unsure of is the speedo. The GQ is electronic and as far as I can tell the MK is cable.

Anyone know how to get around this?

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:11 pm**

OK,

The GQ Gbox and transfer will not bolt in.
U will need body lift as the top cover is far higher stepped and will need to modify ur floor to get the sticks in. also GQ transfer lever stick is on the passenger side and mq is on drivers so u would have to fully mod the floor.
The box is strong enough to tolerate a V8 but an MQ one SHOULD be too.
so if shitting a MQ one u may shit a GQ one as well.
but gq boxes are cheaper to buy than MQ ones as not as rare.
Make sure if u get one get a steel one with unboltable bellhousing rather than a cast alloy one ( weaker and harder to play with ).

The other thing is GQ transfer is in middle so if u want to do that u need a GQ rear diff and u need a front one too as the track width is far different.

And NO u cant put ur locker in a GQ rear even if both are H233 as the GQ axles have a different spline count :oops:

T700 is a good idea with a 60 series or 40 series transfer. they are as stong if not stronger than MQ/GQ transfers ( gearboxes asside ) but with one major advantage in being u can get crawler gears for them :twisted:

60 series transfers also come out on passenger side for the shafts.

T700 will be dearer in parts etc but if u dont mind running and auto ( there are positives and negatives ) u will not have to worry about strength as they sit behind the gen3's etc.

the other thing is the cabstar 5 speed.
they are worth a look. Are stronger than the MQ boxes and marks does a bellhousing adapter and a transfer adapter for the MQ transfer.
it would only be mounts.....

MY 2 Cents

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:32 am**

The centred t/case output and offset rear diff is not a problem, it won't cause any extra vibes.

I already have the Cabstar 5 speed, it is currently in getting looked at because I have taken a tooth off a gear somewhere. I'm considereing the GQ swap because Mark's don't make parts for the Cabstar conversion anymore.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:29 am**

Thanks for the replies,
ive got a 2" body lift so the gq box may clear the body, i know the levers are the other way around but figured the removeable panel in the floor could be re-designed to accomodate them.
Bugger about the locker not fitting.
As its a long wheelbase i guess the shaft could run on an angle to the rear diff and overall the angles wouldn't be much greater than they are now.
But the T700 idea is sounding better, can you get them without electronic control?

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:02 am**

The MQ gearboxes were made at the "Truck Section" of nissan along side the cabstart boxes. Being "truck Issue" they are fairly strong and should handle the grunt your pushing through them, it seems odd that you are breaking them. To date I havent broken one as yet although my 5 spd is starting to howl a bit under normal load

.... (it has done over 50,000 with the 350 infront of it & over 320,000 behind a sd33T and hasnt been touched at all ! ).

The early GQ boxes were also made at the Truck Section ( cast box with alloy belhousing) and are of similar strength to the MQ series (slightly weaker ).
The later GQ boxes are a monocast design, full alloy box and belhousing cast in 2 halves which bolt together. These boxes are made at the Car Section and are weak compared to their predecessors as mentioned above and are of little value for engine conversion work because of this weak design.

There are issues with the shifter location differances between the GQ & MQ setups but they are easilly overcome with patitence, the diff outputs of the two transfers is obvious ....... IE GQ transfer requires GQ diffs, and MQ requires MQ diffs.

I wonder if you have rebuilt the boxes that you have run, this may cause the breakages you are experiancing ..... a non rebuilt old box with 250,000K's might fail after double the grunt is fed through it, any worn bearing would most likely come under much more load and then allow shafts to be slightly "misaligned" causing a broken tooth/failed syncros/colapsed bearing/worn gears.
I have found that if a box isnt rebuilt when fitting a V8 it will certainly need a rebuild with a year ........ the worn box soon shows its age with a V8 upfront !

The "Turbo 700 with 60 series transfer" conversion is a good choice for strength but autos tend to scare 4x4 drivers for some reason, there are kits availiable for "auto lockups" which turns them into a solid operating unit by "locking in the chosen gear", also differant "stall" converters can eliminate unwanted "free wheeling" when decending steep terain, the lockup kit will also assist here too.
further reading at .......
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=16478

The gear sets that are availiable for the 60 series transfer are good to, unlike the MQ range which doesnt exist !

Kingy

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:25 am**

A quick question along the lines of the topic. When fitting the 60s transfer with the auto what other changes are reqired such as driveshaft ends etc. I am looking at converting mine to auto at the moment and this seems the way to go.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:30 am**

The shaft agles for the GQ box are ok for a non lifted patrol.
the shaft can go to the side ( which is the same as lifting ), but when u lift it too u will be binding the uni on 2 out of the 4 axis and u will find vibs and u will sh1t unis.
thats only if Lifted and gq box, which mind u are weaker.....

But with a LWB u may be able to get away with both as the shafts length reduces the angle. the SWB is a NO NO for lift AND side ways angle.
the shaft angles will be too great. I know from looking at my patrol everyday that the slightest bit of shaft angle thats not correct on a SWB will cause vibs all through 1st then a section on 10km/hour through ur acceleration period ( mine is about 50-60kms ) that u get heavy vibs alss.

screwy

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:34 am**

nischev wrote:A quick question along the lines of the topic. When fitting the 60s transfer with the auto what other changes are reqired such as driveshaft ends etc. I am looking at converting mine to auto at the moment and this seems the way to go.

U can use the MQ shafts but they will have to be lengthened/shortened and then balanced and u will need a spacer adapter on the end of the shaft to match the flange on the cruiser case.

apart from that its only the obvious of the bellhousing adapter the t'case adapter and the mounts and floor resess for the auto shifter.

screwy

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:40 am**

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:
nischev wrote:A quick question along the lines of the topic. When fitting the 60s transfer with the auto what other changes are reqired such as driveshaft ends etc. I am looking at converting mine to auto at the moment and this seems the way to go.

U can use the MQ shafts but they will have to be lengthened/shortened and then balanced and u will need a spacer adapter on the end of the shaft to match the flange on the cruiser case.

apart from that its only the obvious of the bellhousing adapter the t'case adapter and the mounts and floor resess for the auto shifter.

screwy

Cool thanx for that front part is ok as i have a chev in it. Was looking at ways to put the auto in since i cant find an adapter for the auto to mq transfer then saw this. Will make life much easier.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:47 am**

I'm in the same boat with a Hilux on 80 series diffs- looking at same g/box and t/case issues.

If you are looking at the GQ diffs simply because they would match up to a GQ drivetrain, there is a lot of work needed to do the swap- I wouldn't go that way unless you are desperate for track width increase and have lots of spare $$$$.

T700 and LT230 would be the ULTIMATE no question about it, the gearing would be equal to 60 series t/c with the Marks gears, but also have the advantage of the 1.22:1 high range- perfect underdrive for running 35's or bigger! (or if running 37's you could use the Defender's 1.41 high range). Also rumoured to be strongest T case.

The only prob is there is no adaptor- Marks do not do this conversion.
I have only heard of one rig with it- Dozoor's- he bought a Rangie with the T700 already adapted to LT230, homemade 8" long adaptor but does the job.

T700's from VN or VP Commodores the best- do not require electronic shift like the later VR 4L60E box's (painful when they get drowned), they're lying around everywhere in wrecking yards so should be pretty cheap, although the ones with the V8 bellhousing are much rarer to find.

I think if someone did an adaptor to mate the T700 to LT230 they would sell heaps.
Failing that the T700 to 60 series would be an excellent and least expensive option.

Josh.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:50 am**

slosh wrote:I'm in the same boat with a Hilux on 80 series diffs- looking at same g/box and t/case issues.

If you are looking at the GQ diffs simply because they would match up to a GQ drivetrain, there is a lot of work needed to do the swap- I wouldn't go that way unless you are desperate for track width increase and have lots of spare $$$$.

T700 and LT230 would be the ULTIMATE no question about it, the gearing would be equal to 60 series t/c with the Marks gears, but also have the advantage of the 1.22:1 high range- perfect underdrive for running 35's or bigger! (or if running 37's you could use the Defender's 1.41 high range). Also rumoured to be strongest T case.

The only prob is there is no adaptor- Marks do not do this conversion.
I have only heard of one rig with it- Dozoor's- he bought a Rangie with the T700 already adapted to LT230, homemade 8" long adaptor but does the job.

T700's from VN or VP Commodores the best- do not require electronic shift like the later VR 4L60E box's (painful when they get drowned), they're lying around everywhere in wrecking yards so should be pretty cheap, although the ones with the V8 bellhousing are much rarer to find.

I think if someone did an adaptor to mate the T700 to LT230 they would sell heaps.
Failing that the T700 to 60 series would be an excellent and least expensive option.

Josh.

i definatly agree with this. The Rover Tcases are the way to go but no adapter is made yet. But ultimatly if u have the dollars to go this way then y now go the whole hog

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:25 am**

Yea, i didn't rebuild them! probably got old worn boxes, new bearings and syncros etc may be the go.

How strong are the 60 series transfers??

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:28 am**

Yea, i didn't rebuild them! probably got old worn boxes, new bearings and syncros etc may be the go.

How strong are the 60 series transfers??

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:41 am**

Patroler wrote:
How strong are the 60 series transfers??

Dunno- plenty of them behind V8's tho.

Worst thing is they only have 1.959:1 low range, although coupled to T700's 3.06:1 !st gear and T/C wouldn't be any worse than std MQ gears.

Marks low range set is 3.05:1 for $1575 plus inst.

If you're not interested in that route, consider transfer from Bundera (same box but has 2.295:1 low range).

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:35 pm**

Alrighty, thanks, ive now got some thinking to do

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:48 pm**

Patroler wrote:Alrighty, thanks, ive now got some thinking to do

the 60 transfers or 40 series for that matter, i think even 80 series are all offset to the drivers side. They are as strong as an MQ transfer and GQ if not stronger.
Ur breaking boxes not transfers so consider maybe 80 series transfer.....

thinking is a mans worst nightmare.... But ya gotta do it :roll:

let us know how ya go

screwy

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:30 am**

Well I found out yesterday that my Cabstar 5 speed needs a new input shaft and gear cluster. It is going to cost about $1400 to repair

So I have decided to fit the GQ Box and T/Case since I'm swapping axles too.

But I still need to know what to do about the Speedo Drive.

Also are the shifter locations similar on the Cabstar/MK 5 speed and the GQ 5 speed??

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:15 pm**

MKPatrolGuy wrote:Well I found out yesterday that my Cabstar 5 speed needs a new input shaft and gear cluster. It is going to cost about $1400 to repair So I have decided to fit the GQ Box and T/Case since I'm swapping axles too.

But I still need to know what to do about the Speedo Drive.

Also are the shifter locations similar on the Cabstar/MK 5 speed and the GQ 5 speed??

No the transfer shifter is on the passenger side rather than the drivers on the mqs.
and it will be probably too far back as well but its hard to tell with ur V8 setup on board.....
but there is a hiegh chance large mods will need to be done.

Im not sure how to go about the speedo. ur best bet is to use the MQ dash still and mod the bottom of the cable to fit on the box as the GQ dash end speedo will no doubt be different.

When u swap axles, are u retaining leaves, or going coils???

also are u SOA?

screwy

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:00 pm**

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:
MKPatrolGuy wrote:Well I found out yesterday that my Cabstar 5 speed needs a new input shaft and gear cluster. It is going to cost about $1400 to repair So I have decided to fit the GQ Box and T/Case since I'm swapping axles too.

But I still need to know what to do about the Speedo Drive.

Also are the shifter locations similar on the Cabstar/MK 5 speed and the GQ 5 speed??

No the transfer shifter is on the passenger side rather than the drivers on the mqs.
and it will be probably too far back as well but its hard to tell with ur V8 setup on board.....
but there is a hiegh chance large mods will need to be done.

Im not sure how to go about the speedo. ur best bet is to use the MQ dash still and mod the bottom of the cable to fit on the box as the GQ dash end speedo will no doubt be different.

When u swap axles, are u retaining leaves, or going coils???

also are u SOA?

screwy

Side to side the shifters are not a prob, just front to rear i'm curious. If it is a bit further back than the cabstar was it will be fine as the cabstar one was very close to the front of the shifter hole.

Might just go a semi custom dash and run an electronic VDO or similar dash.

The axle swap will be onto coils with 5 link front and a-frame rear, currectly I'm SPUA.

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:05 pm**

The GQ still has a drive gear,it just runs a generator.
You may be able to fit MK drive into GQ hole.
You may be able to adapt the GQ to take a cable with a little ingenuity.
J Top

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:19 pm**

J Top wrote:The GQ still has a drive gear,it just runs a generator.
You may be able to fit MK drive into GQ hole.
You may be able to adapt the GQ to take a cable with a little ingenuity.
J Top

Cool, will have to do some investigating under Dad's GQ

Posted: **Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:47 pm**

MKPatrolGuy wrote:
Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:
MKPatrolGuy wrote:Well I found out yesterday that my Cabstar 5 speed needs a new input shaft and gear cluster. It is going to cost about $1400 to repair So I have decided to fit the GQ Box and T/Case since I'm swapping axles too.

But I still need to know what to do about the Speedo Drive.

Also are the shifter locations similar on the Cabstar/MK 5 speed and the GQ 5 speed??

No the transfer shifter is on the passenger side rather than the drivers on the mqs.
and it will be probably too far back as well but its hard to tell with ur V8 setup on board.....
but there is a hiegh chance large mods will need to be done.

Im not sure how to go about the speedo. ur best bet is to use the MQ dash still and mod the bottom of the cable to fit on the box as the GQ dash end speedo will no doubt be different.

When u swap axles, are u retaining leaves, or going coils???

also are u SOA?

screwy

Side to side the shifters are not a prob, just front to rear i'm curious. If it is a bit further back than the cabstar was it will be fine as the cabstar one was very close to the front of the shifter hole.

Might just go a semi custom dash and run an electronic VDO or similar dash.

The axle swap will be onto coils with 5 link front and a-frame rear, currectly I'm SPUA.

so ur doing the diffs too?

I have just put up abit of an arguement against doing this conversion.

BUT in ur case it makes sence.

as u r needing a different box because urs isnt up to it.....
So go GQ, get crawlers
Go the diffs to eliminate the angle.
and have coils as result.

u must have lots of money but

Posted: **Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:50 pm**

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:
MKPatrolGuy wrote:
Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:
MKPatrolGuy wrote:Well I found out yesterday that my Cabstar 5 speed needs a new input shaft and gear cluster. It is going to cost about $1400 to repair So I have decided to fit the GQ Box and T/Case since I'm swapping axles too.

But I still need to know what to do about the Speedo Drive.

Also are the shifter locations similar on the Cabstar/MK 5 speed and the GQ 5 speed??

No the transfer shifter is on the passenger side rather than the drivers on the mqs.
and it will be probably too far back as well but its hard to tell with ur V8 setup on board.....
but there is a hiegh chance large mods will need to be done.

Im not sure how to go about the speedo. ur best bet is to use the MQ dash still and mod the bottom of the cable to fit on the box as the GQ dash end speedo will no doubt be different.

When u swap axles, are u retaining leaves, or going coils???

also are u SOA?

screwy

Side to side the shifters are not a prob, just front to rear i'm curious. If it is a bit further back than the cabstar was it will be fine as the cabstar one was very close to the front of the shifter hole.

Might just go a semi custom dash and run an electronic VDO or similar dash.

The axle swap will be onto coils with 5 link front and a-frame rear, currectly I'm SPUA.

so ur doing the diffs too?

I have just put up abit of an arguement against doing this conversion.

BUT in ur case it makes sence.

as u r needing a different box because urs isnt up to it.....
So go GQ, get crawlers
Go the diffs to eliminate the angle.
and have coils as result.

u must have lots of money but

That is about it, I also want the option of duals at a later date.

Not enought money yet, but saving like crazy to get it!!

Posted: **Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:57 pm**

yeah mate i hear ya!

I can understand y someone would go GQ diffs.

IF they had to go GQ box,
which u have to so its sweet.

But
if ur MQ box is fine and all u want is coils. coil the mq diffs its cheaper and easier to the same effect. U just have less track width....

Ur going the box so doing the GQ diffs solves more problems than it creates, and u got V8 already....

screwy

Posted: **Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:33 pm**

I agree with Screwy on this one... it would be cheaper to sell the ute and buy a GQ and still have money left for suspension mods.

Even if you did the work yourself the parts alone would be pricey.

I had a shop put 80 series diffs under my lux a few months ago- they were very reasonable with price for labour- and I helped them do it to save money.

At the end of the day I forked out about $6K for parts $2K labour and it's still not finished (I need new t/case with offset output). Only went leaves too, coils would've added at least $3 - $4 K more.

It's great to know that I have bulletproof truck and something a little different... but in your case your gonna spend a fortune to end up with a GQ!

Just my 2c.

Josh.

Posted: **Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:51 pm**

Just bought another mq gearbox and transfer, it's recently been recoed, the bloke only pulled it out to put in a 5 speed, he was happy enough to pull the top covers off in his driveway for me to have a close look and let me tip it up and check the magnetic drain plugs (it was full of oil) It all seems sweet, only thing is its a petrol one so i'll have to swap my input shafts and shifters.
I ended up having a think about what kingy said and it ought to be strong enough...
Also i'd have to pull out my big gas tank (120 litre) as it runs lengthwise behind the transfer case passenger side and goes well past the centreline, so the gq box would have the tailshaft running way too close.

I agree with Screwy on this one... it would be cheaper to sell the ute and buy a GQ and still have money left for suspension mods.

I think you're refering to MK patrol guy's car! I wouldn't mind a GQ though but the coil utes are still worth a shitload and probably wouldn't be any cheaper.

Posted: **Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:01 pm**

Patroler wrote:Just bought another mq gearbox and transfer, it's recently been recoed, the bloke only pulled it out to put in a 5 speed, he was happy enough to pull the top covers off in his driveway for me to have a close look and let me tip it up and check the magnetic drain plugs (it was full of oil) It all seems sweet, only thing is its a petrol one so i'll have to swap my input shafts and shifters.
I ended up having a think about what kingy said and it ought to be strong enough...
Also i'd have to pull out my big gas tank (120 litre) as it runs lengthwise behind the transfer case passenger side and goes well past the centreline, so the gq box would have the tailshaft running way too close.

I agree with Screwy on this one... it would be cheaper to sell the ute and buy a GQ and still have money left for suspension mods.

good move.
MQ boxes are as a rule stronger than GQ boxes. So u should be better off with a recoed one.

The gas tank would be a pain!!!

out of curiousity, have u got any pics of how u mounted the gas tank?

screwy

I think you're refering to MK patrol guy's car! I wouldn't mind a GQ though but the coil utes are still worth a shitload and probably wouldn't be any cheaper.

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

GQ gearbox in MQ?

GQ gearbox in MQ?

Box