Outer Limits 4x4 Board

So is it possible to fit longfields (cro-mo or old style) to GQ's and has anyone done it?

It seems the 27 spline inner on the CV is the same as the GQ, so it would just mean clearancing the stub axle/spindle for the larger 30 spline CV stub and a new drive flange???

Cant answer ya Question but why dont you just get the standard ones treated by the HALTECH guru's wen ya get back from GERMANY (SAM /RUFF they seem to be gettin good feed back on there lux treated CV"S )


Im Runnin some standard ones that have had a ring welded to the inside similair to the original LONGS .........although i cant comment on how they go as my rig is still in the shed after and ongoin crown and pinion mesh prob ( bastard Rig im sure i aint meant to have it wheelable ):cry:



cheers

Dan

Just asked this q in general before looking here......

I am going out to the shed tommorow to pull a couple of axles apart and have a look, hope its possible, would save a lot of drama trying to make gq cv's hang together.

Cheers
Daryl

A1MAV wrote:Cant answer ya Question but y dont ya just get the standard ones treated by the HAULTECH (sp?) guros weh ya get back from the GERM.

The NEW cro-mo longs are supposed to be the same strength as a stock 35 spline d60 uni. Way stronger than a modified stock nissan CV. And they come with a larger 1.31" 30 spline outer shaft.

the GQ outer is 31 spline, so you would need to adapt the toyo hub on there somehow. at least the freewheeling mechsnism anyway.
the other thing no-one has thought about is that the GQ bell is different in length and width. so the axis the cv turns (steers) on is not going to line up with the axis through the knuckle bearings.

OK, hope you guys appreciate this cause I took a day off work and messed about with two diffs in the dirt to get this info....

to put a toyota cv in a gq housing you will need to manufacture a brass bush that has a 1.3mm thick thrust face, ~33.6mm id (for toy cv), and an od of 42mm (for the patrol stub). this puts the cv in the right place in the knuckle. Or make a thrust washer 1.3mm thick and find a roller bearing 33.5mm ID, 42.0mm OD, 15.0mm deep.

Then you manufacture a 20mm spacer and bolt on the hilux FWH to the GQ hub. Its the same bolt pattern as the GQ item, spacer needed for the longer stub shaft of the yota cv. Some 75mm M10 studs will also be needed. Just remove the hub locating ring from the GQ hub and use the yota conewashers to centre the fwh.

Better option is

- rework the yota stub to fit the GQ knuckle (reduce locating flange dia and redrill mounting holes to GQ pattern, if your picky you could remove 0.5 - 1mm of thrust face of yota cv bush), this puts the cv in the right place in the gq knuckle (within 0.5mm which is less than the endfloat available without modding the yota cv bush, so no drama IMO).
- rework a yota hub to accept a GQ disc (remove 5mm from disc mounting face and machine step to centre gq disc, puts gq disc in correct place for caliper alignment)
- rework GQ disc (drill new holes on correct PCD and dia to accept yota studs).
- Assemble using longfield cv and enjoy your new stronger frontend.

Yota stub has bearings further apart than GQ item and the stub id is right. GQ spindle ID only just lets yota cv thru if you file the lip out of the outer end.

Ill be doing option two in the next couple of weeks, will document and post up.

Cheers
Daryl

Great work Daryl. I can't believe someone hasn't done this conversion before. With the new cromo longfields available this could drastically reduce CV breakages in comp nissans.

ISUZUROVER wrote:The NEW cro-mo longs are supposed to be the same strength as a stock 35 spline d60 uni. Way stronger than a modified stock nissan CV. And they come with a larger 1.31" 30 spline outer shaft.

wthat are you talking about, hilux's have always had 30 spline outer shafts?

they had 27 spline in side the CV star and 30 spline back at the differential

plus there is talk of a new style long field for the 80 series, which would probably be better for the nissan application if it fits

bubs wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:The NEW cro-mo longs are supposed to be the same strength as a stock 35 spline d60 uni. Way stronger than a modified stock nissan CV. And they come with a larger 1.31" 30 spline outer shaft.

wthat are you talking about, hilux's have always had 30 spline outer shafts?

they had 27 spline in side the CV star and 30 spline back at the differential

What I meant was that the toy 1.31" outer shaft will be stronger than the nissan 1.26" outer shaft.

derangedrover wrote:OK, hope you guys appreciate this cause I took a day off work and messed about with two diffs in the dirt to get this info....

to put a toyota cv in a gq housing you will need to manufacture a brass bush that has a 1.3mm thick thrust face, ~33.6mm id (for toy cv), and an od of 42mm (for the patrol stub). this puts the cv in the right place in the knuckle. Or make a thrust washer 1.3mm thick and find a roller bearing 33.5mm ID, 42.0mm OD, 15.0mm deep.

Then you manufacture a 20mm spacer and bolt on the hilux FWH to the GQ hub. Its the same bolt pattern as the GQ item, spacer needed for the longer stub shaft of the yota cv. Some 75mm M10 studs will also be needed. Just remove the hub locating ring from the GQ hub and use the yota conewashers to centre the fwh.

Better option is

- rework the yota stub to fit the GQ knuckle (reduce locating flange dia and redrill mounting holes to GQ pattern, if your picky you could remove 0.5 - 1mm of thrust face of yota cv bush), this puts the cv in the right place in the gq knuckle (within 0.5mm which is less than the endfloat available without modding the yota cv bush, so no drama IMO).
- rework a yota hub to accept a GQ disc (remove 5mm from disc mounting face and machine step to centre gq disc, puts gq disc in correct place for caliper alignment)
- rework GQ disc (drill new holes on correct PCD and dia to accept yota studs).
- Assemble using longfield cv and enjoy your new stronger frontend.

Yota stub has bearings further apart than GQ item and the stub id is right. GQ spindle ID only just lets yota cv thru if you file the lip out of the outer end.

Ill be doing option two in the next couple of weeks, will document and post up.

Cheers
Daryl

cool.

is the 1.3mm bush in addition to the existing bush, or does it replace it?

1.3mm bush is a replacement.
toyota bell is 60mm overall, gq is 56.7mm and uses a 4.5mm thick thrust bearing.

Ive cocked up on option two. Rechecked the measurements and Ive got the cv too far in by about 4mm, so will have to rethink that one, but if you remove the material from the rear of the stub and refit the cv bearing, then use a 4mm spacer under the fwh?. First bit is still right though.

Cheers
Daryl

yeah, i might try the first option out.

wonder if anyone has looked at bringing in the cr-mo longfields at all yet..

might use 75x10 cap screws instead of studs to keep the "nissan look" ROFL...

how do you work out where the steer axis runs through the CV?? the overall size of the bell is pretty irelevant to that. if the axis of the CV doesn't align with the axis through the knuckle bearings it will only steer once (with hydro) or won't steer at all?? i think??

The position of the axle/star/balls in the bell is the same for both yota and GQ cv's from the inboard side, so if you allow for the longer length of the yota bell outside this point the yota cv star/balls etc are at the same point in the gq knuckle and all is well.

Note that I used a vernier and a couple of straight edges/rulers, so relative measurements will be good, but absolute measurements are relying on my calipers accuracy and my ability to use them. ie, if you wanna do it confirm the sizes for id/od before launching, all care no responsibility, blah blah..

Either way, I think if the cv is within 1mm of where it should be in the knuckle there is more than enough endfloat to let it work without any drama. There is at least 2mm endfloat how they are stock from my observations (not considering the endfloat the star has in the cv), even though nissan wants less than 0.2mm and wants you to check it with a dial gauge, and use a different thickness snap ring to adjust!! You would make more than this difference by using silastic instead of a gasket to put the stub back on the knuckle. I guess people using a martack and no outer clip aren't too fussed, i doubt they are getting their tack within 0.2mm!

Cheers
Daryl

cool. i reckon it will work.

Couple of things I forgot.

You will loose the seal off the back of the GQ spindle, would probably still work but the yota cv isnt setup for it. Yota doesn't have this seal so I dont think its a big issue.

Second, the yota has 8mm studs and cone washers to locate the hub. Just use m10 and ditch the cone washers. M10 X 65 cap head bolts or M10 X 75 studs.

There might be other details I've overlooked, but nothing that would stop it being done as far as I can see.

Back to the shed to keep fiddling.

Cheers
Daryl

yeah, i don't have that seal in either on either of my spindles anyway.

m10 cap screws are the go.

just gotta get a chunk of some big solid bar to machine the 20mm spacer out of.

If you're prepared to sacrifice your GQ hubs they would make a good start for spacers, bit expensive to replace though...

Cheers
Daryl

sounds interestin people...

r u planin on using the new 30 spline cro mo longs or just the std ones ??

Normal longs or maybe just Haultech's for me, so I dont need to get custom inners, must keep to the budget....

But at least the option is there if you want more beef, I'm sure Hardman Bros or any decent axle mob would do a set of hytuff or similar shafts with 30 spline outside end....

30 spl cro mo longs, hytuff/300m/whatever inners, and patrol hp front centre would have to be a pretty strong combo. Better than a built 80 series hp front (strength wise anyway), not quite hp dana 60? Cheapish to build too, not a lot of choice for ratios though, comparatively speaking....

Cheers
Daryl

yeah, i was planning on slicing some meat off a pair of MQ hubs to make the spacers. same bolt pattern, and you get them for close to nothing.

i think the weak link will become the toyota freewheeling hub, which is kinda good if you can pick up spares for a good price.

Wendle wrote:yeah, i was planning on slicing some meat off a pair of MQ hubs to make the spacers. same bolt pattern, and you get them for close to nothing.

i think the weak link will become the toyota freewheeling hub, which is kinda good if you can pick up spares for a good price.

guys are still breaking long fields before the hubs

the toy hubs are pretty strong, if it is a comp rig only see very little road work then you might use 80 series drive flanges, same pcd bolt right on

are the 80 sries flanges the same spline depth as the freewheel set up?

Wendle wrote:are the 80 sries flanges the same spline depth as the freewheel set up?

i pretty sure they are, if not they might be a little longer

hhhmm, this is starting to sound like a neat little experiment. i might see if i can get my hands on some of the CV's they are treating up in qld and try it out with the 80 series flanges and some spacers made from MQ (or even old navara) hubs machined into spacers.

for my application i probably wouldn't even worry about the thrust washer inside the knuckle. i could shim the spline depth inside the drive flange if it was a real issue..

3 posts in a row (can't think and type)

daryl, did you actually put a gq inner into a toyota cv? they measure the same, but you never know??

Yep, stuck them together, they fit properly.
GQ inner is a slightly 'easier' fit than the yota axles I have, but the basic dimensions look the same. I tried to measure the pressure angle of the splines on both, but couldn't do it accurately.

Cheers
Daryl

Wendle wrote:hhhmm, this is starting to sound like a neat little experiment. i might see if i can get my hands on some of the CV's they are treating up in qld and try it out with the 80 series flanges and some spacers made from MQ (or even old navara) hubs machined into spacers.

for my application i probably wouldn't even worry about the thrust washer inside the knuckle. i could shim the spline depth inside the drive flange if it was a real issue..

We are about to have a go at treating the GQ CVs so hang off a little if you want to. The only reason we have not treated them so far is because the other companies that have treated them in Aus have found that the Stub shaft fails but i beleive this may be due to how they are treated. Im pretty certain i can treat a set of GQ ones without effecting the stub shaft but only time will tell. I have a pair of GQ CVs comming my way as i type this so should have some results within a few weeks.

Wendle wrote:3 posts in a row (can't think and type)

daryl, did you actually put a gq inner into a toyota cv? they measure the same, but you never know??

Correct the Star on a genuine GQ CV is the same fit as a star on an NTN Toyota one. They do however vary on aftermarket ones as we have found with aftermarket toyota ones. Actually the star on GQ,Hilux and Range Rover all interchange.

So if the GQ CVs dont work out we may be able to use a GQ star inside a treated Toyota CV and then you wont need custom inner axles.

As it stands we have yet to have a failure in the Bell after treating toyota and Rover CVs and we also have a Winch Challenge Range Rover running a maxi drive in the front with a set of our treated 10spline range rover CVs with no failures at all yet. Also we have a Range Rover that has done 30thousand Ks on road with treated CVs and it has not started to click at all yet. The original treated Longs would do this within days of fitting.

yeah keep us posted on the gq cv's tony im interested