Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Is it a bitch of a job? i want to front mount one but there is bugger all room in the engine bay for the plumbing. I have seen a website in the UK that front mounts them where the grill is, so it can be done, but im not flying my truck to the UK Also will need to cut into the body to get the plumbing through by the looks of it. Anyone know of a place in Sydney that would do it? Arggh and the way the turbo is positioned doesnt look good either (for plumbing)... anyone gone up this path?

Dont want to top mount it!! even though it will be an easier job, it will be much better up front. Might contact this mob in the UK as well...

could of helped if u wanted to know about t/m intercooler

eliteforce32 wrote:could of helped if u wanted to know about t/m intercooler

do you have a top mount ant a scoop from a GU poo-trol? i have a feeling i saw a white lux with one int brizzy somwhere. its a bit of a long shot though.

Safari / Airpower Systems make a front mount intercooler

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/safar ... 3l/3l.html

maybe try giving them a call.

MudLux101 wrote:Safari / Airpower Systems make a front mount intercooler

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/safar ... 3l/3l.html

maybe try giving them a call.

Exactly what i am after, cheers mate!!

eliteforce32 wrote:could of helped if u wanted to know about t/m intercooler

Do you have a top mount? how does it go? i have a mate thats a ricer head (works for hot 4's) recons front mount is the go you get better cooling, which makes sense to me.

Drop Bear wrote:Do you have a top mount? how does it go? i have a mate thats a ricer head (works for hot 4's) recons front mount is the go you get better cooling, which makes sense to me.

Top mount is the go.

Yes having an intercooler at the front is good for cooling the boosted air, but in a diesel its bad because the heat from the intercooler is the blown straight onto the radiator. Its even worse if you have aircon added into the equation. Most hilux diesels are struggling to stay cool as it is. When you go adding a turbo it would just about be on its limits. Then going and adding bullbars, winches and spotties that take up the whole frontal area of the radiator makes it worse again!

Another good reason to have it top mounted is its less damage prone from gravel, rocks, koalas etc.

Last but not least, if its top mounted then the turbo has alot less pipework to pressurise, which means responsiveness.

Just remember its a 4wd, not a gtr skyline. Try to aim for good torque just about 2000rpm, not max power at 4grand!

Testamate to this is the fact that every factory turbo diesel built (4wd anyway) has its intercooler top mounted. So if the manufactures do it, it must be for a reason.

PS. The dude from Hot4s name isn't Jason is it? Lives in KL?

Gribble wrote:Testamate to this is the fact that every factory turbo diesel built (4wd anyway) has its intercooler top mounted. So if the manufactures do it, it must be for a reason.

Wrong
Ford courior/mazda bravo have front mount.
Paul.

ausyota wrote:

Gribble wrote:Testamate to this is the fact that every factory turbo diesel built (4wd anyway) has its intercooler top mounted. So if the manufactures do it, it must be for a reason.

Wrong
Ford courior/mazda bravo have front mount.
Paul.

How many mazda bravos do you see doing any serious 4wding? None, they dont count.

What i meant was the very vast majority do have them up top.

De lux yeah it was probably me...... the SC lux older model ...ino they are as comoon as house hold rats....mine sticks out like dog balls... gu scoop and top mount stickers every where. and yes i have to agree for the slow stuf the top mount is the way to go as its not inflicting extra drag and heat towards the radiator. i have a thermo fan and couling (sp?) under it and its on a thermo swithsh and manual cut out. and i did all the plumbing and mounting my self in about 3hours....just had to wait to get two custom ally bends made up

Gribble wrote:

Drop Bear wrote:Do you have a top mount? how does it go? i have a mate thats a ricer head (works for hot 4's) recons front mount is the go you get better cooling, which makes sense to me.

Top mount is the go.

Yes having an intercooler at the front is good for cooling the boosted air, but in a diesel its bad because the heat from the intercooler is the blown straight onto the radiator. Its even worse if you have aircon added into the equation. Most hilux diesels are struggling to stay cool as it is. When you go adding a turbo it would just about be on its limits. Then going and adding bullbars, winches and spotties that take up the whole frontal area of the radiator makes it worse again!

Another good reason to have it top mounted is its less damage prone from gravel, rocks, koalas etc.

Last but not least, if its top mounted then the turbo has alot less pipework to pressurise, which means responsiveness.

Just remember its a 4wd, not a gtr skyline. Try to aim for good torque just about 2000rpm, not max power at 4grand!

Testamate to this is the fact that every factory turbo diesel built (4wd anyway) has its intercooler top mounted. So if the manufactures do it, it must be for a reason.

Well i have had the turbo in for over a year, have a tjm bull bar with super oscars on it all blocking airflow to the radiator, it rarely goes over half way on the temp.

As far as damage goes i was planning on getting some mesh to go over it. My main concerns with top mounting is that (1) it doesnt cool as good. (2) being that it doesnt cool as good and its expensive, doesnt seem worth it to me. (3) id need to cut out a bonnet scoop and (4) Surely engine heat would be affecting the cooling ability of the cooler.

The intercooler it self will only take up the grill area, leaving quite a bit of the radiator exposed, and i plan to get a tube bull bar so more airflow will get to the radiator and cooler.

Gribble wrote:PS. The dude from Hot4s name isn't Jason is it? Lives in KL?

Thats him!

Also forgot to add, im not going off the advice coming from my mate based upon skylines etc, the company he works for not only does hot4's but 4wd drive monthly, and he has had chat with a few of the guys there and have suggested front mount also. Either will work, but i want to go the option thats most benificial, i need to wiegh up the cost/kw ratio on both TM and FM.

Im not suffering from the heat problems your referring to Gribble so my mind is pretty much set on front mount. And the fact that Safari and this mob i found in the UK both do front mounts steers me that way also. Would be good to hear from others who have TM and FM to get their "real world" opinion.

I have the safari setup and while it used to heat up a bit towing up hills on a hot day I fixed it by doing a bodylift and opening up the area between the chassis and the body. There's now a gap there about 2.5 inches high and the air goes straight through the radiator without going through intrcooler or aircon. Also put some extra silicon stuff in the fan hub, it never goes over half way on the gauge now.
If your going slow air is still goes throgh the intrcooler but if it was top mount I dont think it would as much.

top mount inter will not be affected by engine heat with a scoop fitted, mine is a Gu type, and got this fitted for 100 bucks at my local panel beater, this style will infact cuase more air to be drwan into the engine bay and down the transmition tunnel adding to the draft to ur engine.

secoundly for slow going, what ever ur wheelin in the top mount, well ive jump out of my rig and and its never been to much past warm .

and the plumbing of the intercooler as stated before is much easier on top as there is more room to mount and easy access for maintenance purposes.

my intercooler is a paj one can't remember what model and i got it off a mate but if u want to do it cheaper just source one through ur mate of a ricer wrecker place !

T/M also the plumbing there is less of and as said in the post less area/volume of are to pressurise and there for minimal lag

fitting as i say i did mine, and by no means am i a mechanic (chef by trade) i just had my truck in for a tune once done to make sure the fuel and boost levels were set at a reliable setting.


just my 2c but make a wise choice because it is a very expensive stuffup


sims

Thanks for the responses fellas...

HIL01X wrote:I have the safari setup and while it used to heat up a bit towing up hills on a hot day I fixed it by doing a bodylift and opening up the area between the chassis and the body. There's now a gap there about 2.5 inches high and the air goes straight through the radiator without going through intrcooler or aircon. Also put some extra silicon stuff in the fan hub, it never goes over half way on the gauge now.
If your going slow air is still goes throgh the intrcooler but if it was top mount I dont think it would as much.

I have 2" body lift so should be cool, dont do any towing nor do i plan too. How much did the Safari setup set you back if you dont mind my asking?

eliteforce32 wrote:top mount inter will not be affected by engine heat with a scoop fitted, mine is a Gu type, and got this fitted for 100 bucks at my local panel beater, this style will infact cuase more air to be drwan into the engine bay and down the transmition tunnel adding to the draft to ur engine.

secoundly for slow going, what ever ur wheelin in the top mount, well ive jump out of my rig and and its never been to much past warm .

and the plumbing of the intercooler as stated before is much easier on top as there is more room to mount and easy access for maintenance purposes.

my intercooler is a paj one can't remember what model and i got it off a mate but if u want to do it cheaper just source one through ur mate of a ricer wrecker place !

T/M also the plumbing there is less of and as said in the post less area/volume of are to pressurise and there for minimal lag

fitting as i say i did mine, and by no means am i a mechanic (chef by trade) i just had my truck in for a tune once done to make sure the fuel and boost levels were set at a reliable setting.


just my 2c but make a wise choice because it is a very expensive stuffup


sims

A scoop is a must for sure, but i was thinking more of the heat radiating upward from the engine directly under the cooler, not so bad at speed, but slower speeds (ie off road stuff) would be more of a concern me thinks, surely this has to have some affect on the cooling properties of the cooler? Front mount avoids engine heat altogether (but on the other hand in some case blocks airflow to the radiator).

Plumbing is definitely an issue with front mount, by some rough calculations there will be approx. 2.5 times more space to pressurise than top mount which is going to create a little bit more lag i would assume.

Cooler size too, i am assuming TM is going to be smaller than FM, therefore cooling will be different aswell. decisions decisions....

Top mount would be a piece of piss to install, i could probably do the front mount but probably more beer and swearing involved

Did you guys have your turbos on for a while before intercooling? id be interested to see what kind of improvements you got as a comparison of TM and FM.

yeah i had mine on for about 12 18 months before i got the bug to start playing around with boost and intercoolers, don't expect a throw u back in the seat kind of shit with just adding an intercooler, but what i found was on the highway the top end boost was more noticably (SP?) and the low end torque was increased.. i love it! Mate seriously, the heat that ur talking about from the motor, i have never had anyproblems, as i said above i can get out and touch th intercooler after alday hard wheelin or drivin and not burn my hand or anything under the bonnet......

good luck to u with endever.. and yes plenty of beer and mates while doing this will help ... if ur in brissie i could show u my rig and the setup!

Drop Bear wrote:

Gribble wrote:PS. The dude from Hot4s name isn't Jason is it? Lives in KL?

Thats him!

I went to Muirfield High with him, is he still smoking bongs?

Anyhoo, Im not running a cooler on my turbo setup and it runs good, i really should get the injectors done up though, thats another story. Plus i got GU scoop, which is more of a wank than actually cooling anything, even though the pipes run right under it. Ive thought about running a top mount but its got enough power (for a hilux) as it is. I like reliability.

If you wanna buy a cooler go down to SSS, they have thousands of them and if you buy a factory one it will be cheap as. Ive thought of running one of a 4a-gze top mount. (none of this mitsubishi/toyota interbreeding sh*t ).

eliteforce32 wrote:yeah i had mine on for about 12 18 months before i got the bug to start playing around with boost and intercoolers, don't expect a throw u back in the seat kind of shit with just adding an intercooler, but what i found was on the highway the top end boost was more noticably (SP?) and the low end torque was increased.. i love it! Mate seriously, the heat that ur talking about from the motor, i have never had anyproblems, as i said above i can get out and touch th intercooler after alday hard wheelin or drivin and not burn my hand or anything under the bonnet......

good luck to u with endever.. and yes plenty of beer and mates while doing this will help ... if ur in brissie i could show u my rig and the setup!

Yeah im not expecting much, 8kw or so, so if i cant do it for fairly cheap i dont think i will bother, but would be nice have to the extra oomph. TM mount is the easy route thats for sure and i would prefer that from a practical point of view, ill see what HIL01X has to say about his increases, if its basically the same ill do a TM. Is there any insulation on the underside of your cooler? this could be enough to null the engine heat.

Thanks for the offer to check out your cooler setup, but im in NSW!

Gribble wrote:I went to Muirfield High with him, is he still smoking bongs?

Yep, hes still a dregga

Gribble wrote:Anyhoo, Im not running a cooler on my turbo setup and it runs good, i really should get the injectors done up though, thats another story. Plus i got GU scoop, which is more of a wank than actually cooling anything, even though the pipes run right under it. Ive thought about running a top mount but its got enough power (for a hilux) as it is. I like reliability.

Yeah my lux goes a lot better with the turbo alone, but there will always be room for improvement I dont see how adding the cooler is going to lessen the reliability, cooling the intake air can only be a good thing, the only reliability concerns would be the extra piping and fittings which if maintained well shouldnt be a problem.

Call this a stupid question but intercooling a non turbo would still be an advantage. so why does no one do it? i assume cause the kw gain would be not worth the money spent?

ps sorry im not trying to steal your thread and wont ask any more questions on it.

Cheers.
Arron.

My mate has a 95 dual cab Lux with a Safari turbo and is looking to intercool it. It goes good as he's had an aneroid fitted and the fuel pump tinkered with.
Looking at his truck a front mount intercooler would be a friggin nightmare. I showed him a top mounted unit from a 94 2.8TDI Paj and I can get them for $400 complete with mounting brackets and thermo fan (they ran a thermo fan underneath wired to a temp switch) which he can wire to a switch on the dash for slow offroad work.
The plumbing will be a shitload easier and his has a 2" body lift so clearance is fine. A bonnet scoop from a Paj with the rubber seal completes the package.

Arron nz wrote:Call this a stupid question but intercooling a non turbo would still be an advantage. so why does no one do it? i assume cause the kw gain would be not worth the money spent?

ps sorry im not trying to steal your thread and wont ask any more questions on it.

Cheers.
Arron.

Because you need the turbo to push the air through the cooler.

Bitsamissin wrote:My mate has a 95 dual cab Lux with a Safari turbo and is looking to intercool it. It goes good as he's had an aneroid fitted and the fuel pump tinkered with.
Looking at his truck a front mount intercooler would be a friggin nightmare. I showed him a top mounted unit from a 94 2.8TDI Paj and I can get them for $400 complete with mounting brackets and thermo fan (they ran a thermo fan underneath wired to a temp switch) which he can wire to a switch on the dash for slow offroad work.
The plumbing will be a shitload easier and his has a 2" body lift so clearance is fine. A bonnet scoop from a Paj with the rubber seal completes the package.

Yeah mate after some more reading and thinking ive turned to the dark side, i think ill go the top mount, for all the extra trouble the front mount isnt worth it, the extra kw would be negligable id say. And for $400 for that kit you mentioned, sold. Could you ship one to Sydney? or could i get one up here for a similar price?

Cheers, Ben.

Ring around the 4x4 wreckers and see what the going rate is.
If more than $400 try Mitsi Smart Parts (03) 5334 1806 he will ship to you.
The $400 is only for the intercooler/fan/bracket assembly you have to ask if they have any of the bonnet scoops.

yeah i don't know if i said this already but i have this system, paj intercooler, with thermo fan and there is a factory thermo switch in the back, they fuck up so don't use them, go for craig davies. but the paj unit is neat and does its job very well, i picked mine up for $150 here in brissie, but was luky to be at the right place at the right time.... good luck in ur endervers.

Sweet as will check it out, thanks for your input lads

Arron nz wrote:Call this a stupid question but intercooling a non turbo would still be an advantage. so why does no one do it? i assume cause the kw gain would be not worth the money spent?

ps sorry im not trying to steal your thread and wont ask any more questions on it.

Cheers.
Arron.

Because there would be no heat exchange if the air going through the cooler is the same temp as the ambient air outside.

Theres a long phyisics explanation for it but im too busy at work to explain (yeh right).

eliteforce32 wrote:yeah i don't know if i said this already but i have this system, paj intercooler, with thermo fan and there is a factory thermo switch in the back, they ***** up so don't use them, go for craig davies. but the paj unit is neat and does its job very well, i picked mine up for $150 here in brissie, but was luky to be at the right place at the right time.... good luck in ur endervers.

Great did you use the Paj bonnet scoop as well ??
I would appreciate it if you could post a pick of the assembly in your truck so I can show my mate and any useful tips.

Cheers, Bitsa.

no Paj i just used the cooler.... and a gu scoop! just check out my wensite becouse ..i have no idea of linking the picks! they are old ppicks bur are there.. if u want more of the mounting just pm me glad to help

cheers
simon

Cheers.
Arron.[/quote]
Because you need the turbo to push the air through the cooler.[/quote]

Ah ha! thanks for that.
Cheers.
Arron.

Yeah it's just the one pic on your link.
If you could email me what pics you have of your set up at frankyz@austarmetro.com.au

Cheers, Bitsa.

Drop Bear wrote:Thanks for the responses fellas...

HIL01X wrote:I have the safari setup and while it used to heat up a bit towing up hills on a hot day I fixed it by doing a bodylift and opening up the area between the chassis and the body. There's now a gap there about 2.5 inches high and the air goes straight through the radiator without going through intrcooler or aircon. Also put some extra silicon stuff in the fan hub, it never goes over half way on the gauge now.
If your going slow air is still goes throgh the intrcooler but if it was top mount I dont think it would as much.

I have 2" body lift so should be cool, dont do any towing nor do i plan too. How much did the Safari setup set you back if you dont mind my asking?
.

I think it cost about 4 grand for the whole outfit. I had it put on soon after i bought the hilux 2nd hand so i hadn't really driven it much. While it is still no powerhouse it makes it driveable, espeacially when towing.
If you can get a top mount cheap and put a fan on it, it would probably be OK.