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track closures in the otways

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track closures in the otways

Post by kranked_dirt »

g'day all, just got back from an interesting trip in the otways state forrest, thought i'd come on here and tell you about it and ppl can let me know what you think.

We had a mate's 60 series and my 40 series, camping at lake Bullene Mary just out of camperdown, vic. The plan was to leave camp thursday and spend the day in the forrest checking out some of the 4x4 tracks. Got up there abou 11am thursday morning and took Thompson's track. All was well, a few small fallen trees which we cleared, the about 10min later we came to an inpassable tree that had fallen, too big for the chain saw and the way it was sitting prevented it being towed out of the way so we had to turn back. We dropped one of our crew back in town to his car since he had to drive back to melbourne for an SES meeting. We then went back in and took a track that branched off of thompson's called Newcombe's Spur Tk. The gate was open so we proceded down the track. Was pretty easy for a while then the terrain dropped pretty steeply so we got out and walked the track for a bit to see what it was like. The ruts were pretty deep and on a very steep slope, went on for a while till we came to a huge bog hole. Long story short a light rain fell for about 5 min and that steep, dry rut filled track we came down became like ice and there was no way of getting the 60 series up again after my rig got bogged (high centered the diff when the wheels fell into a rut about 1 meter from the end of the mud). So with minimal water and food, only hand held UHF's and my girlfriend without her medication we were stuck there for 15 hours. :? We walked out to the top of the track we we got sos calls only on the phone and 2 hours later the local copper rocked up and took us back to town. By this time its 10pm, still no food or water and no cars. Managed to get onto the ses bloke we dropped off to come back with some recovery gear and we planned to winch the trucks out in the morning. 1am came along and we get a radio call from the SES controller and two other blokes in their 75 series troopy saying they were out the front to come pull us out. so by 5am the next day we had our trucks out and were in serious debt to these fellas who drove 3 hours in the middle of the night to come help us. What i wanted to know from you guys is, shouldnt those gates at the start of the trackes be closed if conditions are bad?? if some one had of gone down there with less experience than us ( we dont have much by the way lol :P ) what was a very frustratiing situation could have been incredably dangerous. Do Parks Victoria have a duty of care to the public to close the gates if conditions are seriously dangerous?? Just like it says on the sign at the start of the track "this track could be closed at other times of the year due to bad weather conditions" What do you guys think?? g'day all, just got back from an interesting trip in the otways state forrest, thought i'd come on here and tell you about it and ppl can let me know what you think.

We had a mate's 60 series and my 40 series, camping at lake Bullene Mary just out of camperdown, vic. The plan was to leave camp thursday and spend the day in the forrest checking out some of the 4x4 tracks. Got up there abou 11am thursday morning and took Thompson's track. All was well, a few small fallen trees which we cleared, the about 10min later we came to an inpassable tree that had fallen, too big for the chain saw and the way it was sitting prevented it being towed out of the way so we had to turn back. We dropped one of our crew back in town to his car since he had to drive back to melbourne for an SES meeting. We then went back in and took a track that branched off of thompson's called Newcombe's Spur Tk. The gate was open so we proceded down the track. Was pretty easy for a while then the terrain dropped pretty steeply so we got out and walked the track for a bit to see what it was like. The ruts were pretty deep and on a very steep slope, went on for a while till we came to a huge bog hole. Long story short a light rain fell for about 5 min and that steep, dry rut filled track we came down became like ice and there was no way of getting the 60 series up again after my rig got bogged (high centered the diff when the wheels fell into a rut about 1 meter from the end of the mud). So with minimal water and food, only hand held UHF's and my girlfriend without her medication we were stuck there for 15 hours. :? We walked out to the top of the track we we got sos calls only on the phone and 2 hours later the local copper rocked up and took us back to town. By this time its 10pm, still no food or water and no cars. Managed to get onto the ses bloke we dropped off to come back with some recovery gear and we planned to winch the trucks out in the morning. 1am came along and we get a radio call from the SES controller and two other blokes in their 75 series troopy saying they were out the front to come pull us out. so by 5am the next day we had our trucks out and were in serious debt to these fellas who drove 3 hours in the middle of the night to come help us. What i wanted to know from you guys is, shouldnt those gates at the start of the trackes be closed if conditions are bad?? if some one had of gone down there with less experience than us ( we dont have much by the way lol :P ) what was a very frustratiing situation could have been incredably dangerous. Do Parks Victoria have a duty of care to the public to close the gates if conditions are seriously dangerous?? Just like it says on the sign at the start of the track "this track could be closed at other times of the year due to bad weather conditions" What do you guys think??
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Post by marin »

close the gates so as to limit our choice of tracks any more? isnt it enough that they close the gates during winter? what makes 4wding fun is being able to do tracks like the one you did (or didn't) do. If you do a track, it is your choice to do it or not, you have the responsibilty to make sure you can do the track, or have the appropriate recovery gear (or friends) to get you out or through. If they had the duty of care, or however you put it, it would be a huge strain on resources to check every track, every day. they would just close all the tracks all year round.

not having a go at you, just my thoughts.

anyway, hope you had some fun, or at least learnt something from your experience/ordeal

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Post by bazzle »

They cant predict its going to rain!!
You shouyld take all precautions knowing that the weather can change conditions. Also if youre girlfriend needed medication she should carry it at ALL times esp when going bush.
I always carry water and warm clothes even on a hot day in case I get stuck.

Good recovery gear , planning and joining a 4wd club can help.
Ive done too many resues for peopole who just are not prepared. 4 wheeling is serious business.

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Post by GUJohnno »

Preparation is the key here.
If you don't have much experience you have to assess things as you go to make sure you don't go past that point of no return.
There is a fair chance when wheelin in the Otways that with a few drops of rain you might need to take the string for a walk. Make sure you travel with others that have all the gear if you haven't got it your self. And like Bazzle said, always make sure you've got any medications that you might need and prepare for anything.
New Years day two years ago we had snow in the high counrty. You never know what might happen.
We got stuck the other week in similar circumstances. But we had full recovery gear and winches. It took a hell of a long time but we got back out. Lots of tree hugging that night.
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Post by V8Patrol »

Heres the problem.....

1/ you entered an area that you are not familiar with, most locals could have given you a idea of what to expect HAD you of asked.

2/ you failed to allow for an emergency IF things went bad, as they did. Forgetting ANYONES medication is sheer stupidity let alone not allowing for the weather,.... did'nt you listen to the radio for the news/weather ??

3/ your vehicle is obviously not capable of such tracks (no mention of a winch or any other recovery gear etc.!)

4/ blaming the "Parks Victoria" for not closing a socalled "tough track" because YOU couldnt drive it is like saying "Dolly did it ! ".... there's only one person at fault here and passing the buck wont change it !



That may seem harsh but its the truth. The tracks you named are in my opinion rated at a 3/10 degree of difficulty ( with 10/10 being phucking tough ! ) they are easilly drivable with a compentent driver behind the wheel and and a vehicle with the appropiate recovery equipment required for the journey.

As for stating
Kranked wrote:Do Parks Victoria have a duty of care to the public to close the gates if conditions are seriously dangerous
Yes they do to a certain extent and many of the tracks ARE closed during winter. Do you expect someone to run around closing em up if it looks like it might rain because you are to busy doing other things to listen to the weather report ???
Parks Vic have closed nearly a 1/3 of the tracks in the Otways during the last 5 years, these tracks WILL NEVER be reopened and its because of twits that whinge about getting stuck to the officials..... Parks Vic have to allow for the differant "users" of these tracks, from the "complete inexperianced and unprepared" to the " highly skilled driver with an extreamly modded rig" ...... pleasing everyone isnt easy.

I have argued with various authorities to "grade or rate" each track within the Otways National Park with a simple sign at each end of a track. The sign would simply have 1/10, 2/10, 3/10, ....... 10/10 rating which then would allow each individual driver to asses the track or their abilities, before ever entering it. Unfortunatly my suggestions have fallen on deaf/stupid ears.

Next time you decide to wheel the Otways try this new approach.......



its called ....







common sense !

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Post by YankeeDave »

I have to agree with everyone Preperation is key,


dosnt matter if you are traveling with another car, you should always have a winch with at least one car (and the knowledge on how to use it) This dosnt have to be a electric winch. When i first got my 4wd i bought a hand winch. cost me $400 and probably saved me hundreds of hours in recovery time with a shovel or walking out of the bush getting someone to help me out. I have a highmount winch now, but still always chuck the hand winch in the back of the car on every trip, for that just in case situation. ( like turning my car back on its wheels after a roll)


Get a winch, even a hand winch and learn how to use it. Then you're 15 hours could have been cut to about 1-2hours of hand winching.

And I agree with the rest, check the weather, always have warm clothes in the car, and NEVER forget medication when going bush. There are hundreds of books detailing on how to prepare for camping/4wding. Go to any camping store get a book and do what they say. Make sure your vehicle wont break down on the trip and you have all the recovery gear you need.

so be prepaired instead of whinging
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Post by bogged »

V8Patrol wrote:common sense !

Kingy


No shit. what were you doing wheeling in an area in the rain like that on your own with no recovery gear??

Gawd, and you think the "Parks Victoria should have a duty of care to the public to close the gates if conditions are seriously dangerous"..

As Bazzle said, how the fuck did they know it was going to rain? Also if you are already camped in that area with the gates now locked, you are INSIDE the gates, you would whinge if you were locked so you couldnt get out..

Cant stop stupidity...
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Post by bogged »

bogged wrote:Cant stop stupidity...

except by leaving GuTS at home...
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Post by Ben »

Sorry to hear you had a long night, glad it worked out for you in the end...but as its been pointed out, how about TAKING RESPONSIBILITIES FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS instead of blaming it on someone else.

YOU drove down the track with no recover gear - Parks Victoria didn't make you do it.

YOU chose to go wheelin' without sufficient food and water for a long stay...what, should Parks Victoria set up a Maccas drive-thru halfway down the track for you?

IMHO too many people these days are failing to take responsibility for their own actions. Too many people thinking the way out of their own failings is to sue someone else (or in this case get someone else to shut the gate so they don't have to think for themselves!).

We've got enough problems with people trying to close tracks on us, we sure as hell don't need a wheeler asking them to be shut because they're too farkin' hard and they're hungry!.
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Post by bogged »

Ben wrote:should Parks Victoria set up a Maccas drive-thru halfway down the track for you?

Would be handy on a few tracks while waitin for Dave T to get his car runnin... LMAO
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Post by Busiboy »

Have to agree with all the posts event though I think that some of the guys have taken a very hard line with you.

It is hard enough to get tracks to stay open let alone have someone decide when to shut the gate.

Besides what is to say is dangerous for you isn't my or someone elses fun challenge. I remember an occasion where I had to recover a bogged vehicle, he was clearly stuck and couldn't get out off the muddy incline of which he took the best path. All I had to do was actually take a harder line, which for me and my vehicle was still easy, get infront of him and drag him up the hill, towing from a standing start on a muddy hill. We all have our limits and some of us have a higher limit than others.

We all started as beginers and have gotten better at our recreation through progressive steps and challenges. Just seems to me like you took a big bite and then got your jaw wired shut.

Hopefully the bad day out was a valueable lesson and you know what to try and leave for another day next time.

Prepare, Plan and moniter your trips.

Just don't suggest that someone should shut tracks cause you will have all of us offside in an instant.

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Post by V8Patrol »

I've often wheeled interstate in areas that I have zero knowledge of at all, by using various methods such as .....

Sending a PM to another Outerlimits board member that lives near that region and requesting info on the tracks in that region......

Asking local 4x4 club in that region as to the track conditions.....

Talking to local land owners about the area I'm wheelin in once I arrive....

Listening to local radio stations, local newspspers and the locals themselves about weather changes and the effect they have on tracks....

Asking a local 4x4er for advice or better still to tag along with you......


There are tracks that simply change after the smallest drop of rain has fallen & this freak of nature isnt restricted to the Otway tracks either. Dont blame the conditions for the bad experiance you had but be better planned next time you venture offroad.

It may sound a little extream but I carry 200kgs of recover gear when I wheel the otways............... you now know the reason for it !

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Post by V8Patrol »

Oh Yeah .... I forgot to add .....

You were less than 800 metres away from where I was on that day ....

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Post by AndrewT »

No offence but next time go prepared, or just don't go down tracks if your not sure. The ammount of people that do the same thing as you, aren't well equiped or experienced and have to be pulled out in the Otways is amazing. Just join a club and go on club trips.

You'd be surprised the ammount of times iv'e been down there and come across people stuck down a track they shouldn't be on with no idea what there doing and having to pull them out. I think just about everybody from the local club(Warrnambool) has had to do the same thing.

And as far as track closures, its bad enough at the moment, there trying to lock us all out of the whole lot so I don't think we need any more to cater for "Novices"
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Post by bad_religion_au »

i had a similar experience, was using an old map, which said this particular logging road went through, only to find a fresh plantation right across it. took 7 hours to do a 3 point turn and get up a 200 meter incline. i wasn't even planning on going 4x4ing, just site seeing... but i learnt from it, and don't go near the otways without recovery gear...
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Post by V8Patrol »

AndrewT wrote:You'd be surprised the ammount of times iv'e been down there and come across people stuck down a track they shouldn't be on with no idea what there doing and having to pull them out. I think just about everybody from the local club(Warrnambool) has had to do the same thing.

7 recoverys in one day is my highest to date, thats individual 4x4s on differant tracks !
Andrew is 100% right about the unbeliavable number that get stuck in the most simplest of places and its usually sheer luck that others are about to recover them ......

then there are the 4am phonecalls for help, My favorite is recovering a certain police crusier that was where it shouldnt have been......
I got a free crime for that recovery :D

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Post by ToNkA »

Retard.
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Post by -Scott- »

This is a perfect example of all that is wrong with our world today.

Group gets into trouble by being somewhere they should not have been, without the skills, knowledge or hardware to get themselves out. One member hasn't got their medication. Authorities (Police, SES) come to their rescue - at least the rescuees have the decency to publicly thank their rescuers.

THEN somebody wants to know if the "Authorities" are to blame?

Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror - eventually you'll see who's to blame.

:x

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Post by YankeeDave »

ahh memories of pulling out a stock prado from gembrook in august (wet time for gembrook)

he had hwy tyres and 6 people in his 7 seater. no winch, no snatch, or even a shovel.

lucky he only had to wait an hour till i happened to be passing by.


But seriously, I think 4wd ads on tellie these days give people a false sense of capability with stock fourbies.

and i know a few people that for some strange reason thing the older the rig the more " unstopable " or " go anywhere" it is.

But i like the idea of warnings on tracks. Even walking tracks have warnings on them about difficulty degree, why can't car tracks. Maybe the above mentioned 1-10 scale, or simple phrase. I'd be willing to scout tracks up for signage if it ment keeping the more hare core tracks open
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Post by HSV Rangie »

they have warings;

4x4 only.

we dont want parks clasifying everything, they will just shut it all down, duty of care done no acess.

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Post by bogged »

YankeeDave wrote:But seriously, I think 4wd ads on tellie these days give people a false sense of capability with stock fourbies.


Very good point, like the hyuandi going thru mass mud bouncing around, oh yea...

Theres a photo I have of me towing out a Lux that had hydro locked, hole thru the block, $5000 later he was driving away.. He was told it was a 4wd and could go anywhere - no snorkel + Coopers Ck at Walhalla over bonnet deep = Fubar...
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Post by MKPatrolGuy »

bogged wrote:
Ben wrote:should Parks Victoria set up a Maccas drive-thru halfway down the track for you?

Would be handy on a few tracks while waitin for Dave T to get his car runnin... LMAO


Hey that's a low blow :oops:
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Post by Shadow »

yeh everyones right

your to blame

not anyone else....
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Post by Utemad »

Although people have been harsh with you don't worry about it. Think of it as a learning experience. No one was hurt. Just a few bruised egos and some exercise. Suck it up and accept you did the wrong thing.

I recently drove a track which I thought was pretty difficult when I first got my 4x4 4 years ago but this time it was a walk in the park. I know tracks change over time however this looked similarish. When you have more experience you will look at that track and wonder what on Earth you did wrong to get stuck there.

I hope this doesn't put you off 4wding for good.
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Post by GoPies »

I have to agree with the "gee that's too difficult" story when you first purchase a 4wd. I was like that when I got my 90 surf. Now I have a competant 80 series cruiser with all the recovery gear you could ask for and I still balk at tracks if I'm on my own.
The track you were on sounds like fun to me but only in the wet, sounds pretty tame in the dry, anyone with a little know how can dodge the ruts and continue on with some others behind.
When we go serious off road, it's more than 2 cars, I like to have at least 4 in convoy and you place the "winched' cars at the front and back if something happens.
Join a club and the people involved will be more than happy to teach you what to do and you will also get great advice on how to improve your vehicle so you can go out and tame that killer track.
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Post by bogged »

MKPatrolGuy wrote:Hey that's a low blow :oops:


:P :P :P :P
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Post by bogged »

NJ SWB wrote:This is a perfect example of all that is wrong with our world today.

Group gets into trouble by being somewhere they should not have been, without the skills, knowledge or hardware to get themselves out. One member hasn't got their medication. Authorities (Police, SES) come to their rescue - at least the rescuees have the decency to publicly thank their rescuers.

THEN somebody wants to know if the "Authorities" are to blame?

Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror - eventually you'll see who's to blame.

:x

Scott


Post of the week.. well said dude.
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Post by kranked_dirt »

hahaha thanx for the feedback guys. Yeah i know i am to blame :? i was just caught up in it.. having only had the truck for a few months and very minimal offroad driving experience i thought "ah yeah she be right mate my truck'll get through that"... how wrong i was :P ah well, it was all experience and now my shopping list has grown with a winch, new tires, compressor and some 4x4 lessons right on top. Maybe a bit of forward thinking and some planning for the next trip might not go astray either :roll:

cheers,

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Post by Luxy »

Im glad you have learnt by your mistakes.... everyone does....
Just make sure you have AT LEAST a snatch strap, and to take a vechile with you with enough recovery gear to get you out of trouble if it happens again... its not much fun with a spur-of-the-moment-trip without thinking ahead with what can happen if something goes wrong.
The bush is something not to be taken granted for and you should always be prepared. Just make sure you have enough gear to beat a track next time, or have the sense to walk part of it first if it looks a bit dodgy....


Most of all... be prepared and have fun... thats what 4wdriving is all about!! :cool: ;)
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Post by Busiboy »

I remember a while ago, damn it was a while ago too :? , I am getting old.

Anyhoo, It was absolutely persisting down and the local river (Nepean) was rising steadily. I came down from one side looked figured it was safe to cross (I had another way out anyway) and crossed. No incident. My rig was very capable and had good MT's on. There was however a bit of a frenzy with 4x4 owners coming out everywhere and having a play. One guy was taking particular pride in towing everybody who couldn't make it out of the river. He would cross it repeatedly go around people etc, pull them out show off a bit, keep playing etc.

I had to go as I had to go out that night and left them all to it. I was out with my 4x4 mate and it had rain constantly since we had left when we finished up where we had to be. We decided to go down to the river (1 easy min off the black top) and see how high the river had gotten. That is when we started to notice the helicopter...

Long story short, the hero had kept showing off despite the slowly rising river and hadn't adjusted his behaviour to suit. The rising water kicked his car sideways and beached him on a rock. Nobody was game to try and get close to him due to the raging water.

He wound down his windows stood on the bonnet and waited for the helicopter. His mates had to camp out for 2 days to wait for the water to come down so they could retrieve the car.

A day playing in the water - $40 diesel.
showing off all day and not paying attention - $0
Making that call that you need to be resuced - $0.40
Getting your mate to camp out for 2 days to watch your car drowning - $$$

Getting a helicopter rescue and featuring your dumbarse of the news - priceless

Don't worry you aren't the first and I doubt you will be the last.

Just make sure it is your last rescue.
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