Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I read with interest about the development of the WE Rock Oz Chapter (in the comp section for havn't seen it), and was just trying to develop a picture of what a competetive buggy would require.

Knowing only what I read here and on P4x4 about the hard core rock crawling concept, I would like to ask those that know for some advice.

In your opinion, what would be a competitive package, as a 'Legends' Class vehicle (driver ability, or lack thereof , not taken into account)?
-Donor Car or Scratch Built
-4/6/8 cyl
-Struts / Leaf / Coils / Air Shox
-Auto / Manual
-Axles?
-TCase?
-etc, etc
-37's?

I know peoples opinions will vary widely, and there is more than one way to skin a cat, but Im just interested to see what people think would be competitive. (Note - Trailer queen only - ie not road legal).

As with all things, the $'s side of things is a consideration, hence having the build utilise locally available parts/vehicles is preferred.

Do you think it is a viable proposition to develop it to a certain level as funds allow now, and then upgrade as $'s allow, or just bite the bullet and go full spec right away?

Throw some ideas at me people.

(Im guessing this could be a big old can o' worms...)

Deano

The only way to save money on a project is to have a clear vision/goal from the start and work towards that. The general rule when modifying is that 1 mod requires at least another 3 to make it work. If you're building from scratch then you'll end up re-doing a lot of your work if you decide to change the setup.

Therefore, the most important part of the build is the planning. First and foremost you need a drivetrain that will withstand the punishing your motor will give. You need a lightweight, powerfull motor (at least 130hp and prob 200Nm IMO) that is responsive. EFI also helps. Then consider a tyre size that will give adequate contact pressure for your weight of vehicle and contact patch. Then decide how big you want the car, single or twin seater. Then try to make everything fit in a way that gives you a low centre of gravity with good clearance. Then make it strong enough to take a good roll at least every time you go out.

And last but not least - dont' forget to make it look cool!

This is all just my opinion though.

Deano wrote:-Donor Car or Scratch Built
-4/6/8 cyl
-Struts / Leaf / Coils / Air Shox
-Auto / Manual
-Axles?
-TCase?
-etc, etc
-37's?

- Depends on your skill level and amount you want to spend. I would say scratch built because you can make the chassis to suit your drivetrain, don't have to trim off all old brackets etc etc but as beebee said you'll most likely want to change alot of stuff as it'll all be new to you. Possibly a good/cheap option would be to source a shorty gq or equivelent and use as much as you can, you could get away with running the factory suspension set up, although lengthened/lightened/strengthened of course. Then trim whataver you didn't use off the chassis and tube the rest.

- Again depends on how far you wanna go $$$ wise. Dave's blue buggy [rocbug] buggy built by trailcraft runs a camira motor and auto box which could be setup very cheaply [minus turbo] and they have been very competitive with it. There's plenty of import motors that go cheap and have decent power, some even bolt up to hilux gearbox's What motors do you like best ? If you love V8's and have always wanted one why not take this opportunity to build yourself one ?! It's only money

- All will work [minus struts], just some will work better/be lighter than others. There's plenty of guys in the states running low tech suspension in comps and doing well. Look, read ask and decide which will suit you better.

- I reckon if you're trying to do it on the cheaper side of things go auto, you don't have to worry about gearing so much with the auto as it'll do most of the work for you. I'm going manual as i like the instant grab/launch you get with having a clutch to dump and it's an easy job getting it to work with my motor. Only thing is it's costing a fair bit more than an auto setup would of but it's what i wanted. Next rig will be auto though i think. IIRC most of the top us guys are running autos also.

- If you're running 37's [which you will be in legends class] you should be able to get away with hilux axles, nice and cheap and plenty of upgrades available for them. Put the money saved towards other things.

- Without spending mega $ you've got a few options... toyota, rover or zook. Rover will probably not be the best if you're going manual as there arn't too many gearing options but it'll be perfect for an auto. Will give you the option of cheap front digs also.

- If you're going cheap go with creepy crawlers or mtr's i reckon. Above that there's plenty to choose from and so far in oz none seem to have a clear advantage over the rest.

Hope this helps

Deano
In my opinion,You DO NOT NEED A HUGE ENGINE.
I have my buggy with a 1.3ltr sierra motor,gearbox & t/case and i can go all the same places,Well just about everywhere i have tried to go i have gone.
BIG HP = BIGGER DOLLARS in setting up your driveline to handle it...

My opinion only
Jamie

Adding to the points made by the others. Determine suspension geometry in conjuction with the frame geometry, to minimise the compromises in both.

Fourwheelin wrote:Deano
In my opinion,You DO NOT NEED A HUGE ENGINE.
I have my buggy with a 1.3ltr sierra motor,gearbox & t/case and i can go all the same places,Well just about everywhere i have tried to go i have gone.
BIG HP = BIGGER DOLLARS in setting up your driveline to handle it...

My opinion only
Jamie

Jamie, you (and everyone else) are entitled to you opinion. I will however say that when I changed from a 22R to the 3RZ motor in mine (50% improvement in power and 100% in torque) the vehicle became MUCH more usable. Having a surpless of power with good torque enables you to be crawling at around 70:1 then be able to get on it to achieve good wheel speed without selecting another gear. This also relies on a good rev range. My limiter cuts in at 5400RPM and gives me the shits! Previously 2nd gear was unusable in steep sections where as I can now go as high as 3rd in most situations. This gives me much more flexibility in the way that I can attack an obsticle.

And it's more fun!