Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Guys looking for some input as im streching the rear section of the wheel base by 21 inches and am going to run a hilux double cardon joint was thinking of dual cases as i definatly have the room to fit them.What case has the lowest ratios

y do u want to go dual cases id say it would be cheaper and easier to get gears

You may achieve a lower ratio , BUt you,ll also suck another 10- 15%
of the power from your motor . Less gears equals more power .

With rockhoppers costing $1300 there is no real point for duals.

(Except ljextreem's zook which has a RH in the second tcase - oooh its low)

Dozoor wrote:You may achieve a lower ratio , BUt you,ll also suck another 10- 15%
of the power from your motor . Less gears equals more power .

The only reason ican think of is to keep the high range ratio's at standard,
With some reduction gearing it lowers the high range as well, like 25% in the series 3 rock hoppers.

Tim D wrote:

Dozoor wrote:You may achieve a lower ratio , BUt you,ll also suck another 10- 15%
of the power from your motor . Less gears equals more power .

The only reason ican think of is to keep the high range ratio's at standard,
With some reduction gearing it lowers the high range as well, like 25% in the series 3 rock hoppers.

ahhh rong even with standard gears in both cases it will be still very low in high high i think high high 1st gear would be ruffley 30:1


u gotta rember zuk cases dont have 1:1 in high range

best way is to use a vitara case to a sierra case, but that means you also gotta get a vitara gearbox, which will quickly add up to well over the cost of a s3 gearset

Hi Duncan

I like the way you are thinking,have been doing some reading on this subject.
TRY HERE

http://www.zookpower.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1012

Lots of photo's,this site puts last post first so you have to go to page 7 to get to the start

Cheers Simon

just fit s3 youll love it and its far less hassle

roc box wrote:just fit s3 youll love it and its far less hassle

Agreed, less parts = less problems

you could fit a coily case to to a sierra or 2 coily cases together as the high range is higher and the transfer cases are also shorter in length.

Thanks guys was just considering costs ie twins against series 3s as im going to have heaps of room .Was going to go series 3s but now no of 2 people who have destroyed theres and are having warranty problems because there gears dont have any stamped markings on them but both were bought at offical out lets and fitted by mechanics who do this kind of work all the time .So do i go series 3s at 6.1 to 1 or go Calmini at a higher ratio or try to hook up twins ?.Can anyone get a good deal on either sets of lower gears

duncan wrote:Thanks guys was just considering costs ie twins against series 3s as im going to have heaps of room .Was going to go series 3s but now no of 2 people who have destroyed theres and are having warranty problems because there gears dont have any stamped markings on them but both were bought at offical out lets and fitted by mechanics who do this kind of work all the time .So do i go series 3s at 6.1 to 1 or go Calmini at a higher ratio or try to hook up twins ?.Can anyone get a good deal on either sets of lower gears

trail tough 6.4:1

or rocky road 8:1

Of course If the real benifit was to create a variable range box , and
power wasnt a priority
and would give a huge range of ratio options , the swedes have been using a simple second gearbox in place of the jack shaft , they use a volvo box , . Don,t know how strong they would be . But We do have a few great box,s over here that would certianly
Make for an exellent range of ratios .
Early F100s - Run a T18 this can be found - easy its a fiarly narrow box and short , but is quiet Tall .

Achievable result would be - about 42 forward and 8 reverse ratios

Using standard zook box and transfer plus t18 would give around
246-1 crawl in low low low -3.9 diffs
Lowest reverse achieved utilising reverse on your zook box and low on the t18 - is around the same.

Would be fun but , average joe like me would nuff more obsticles thru pure "sense drench" as i call it, Just to many choices
JMO 100-1 is max - even with this you probly find youself thinking on occasion i should have used 2nd if running 31-33 rubber
Nice ratio for 34-36 looking for a bit more as the tire size increases
The big numbers are good for Big rubber (44)

I just needed somwhere to dribble


One good piont about zooks is the motors pull great rpm ,
so imagine two cars with same ratios and tires in low range
one running a chev other a zook the later will give a better top end speed from the low ratio simply because it revs higher .

Dribble over ,

Just noticed a thread on pirate on the volvo setup , didn,t look though
could be just another argument hehe

One thing to remember with duals is all of the custom work involved - EVERYTHING ends up played with so while you might think that getting warranty on a busted series 3 is a pain, trying to iron out all of the bugs in a dual transfer set up will be more of a pain. I don't know how much use you car will get, but if it does a lot of kays, I reckon you will have trouble with duals as there will be heaps of stuff not running the way it was inended = wearing out quick.

Duals used to look like the way to go when you couldn't get Rockhoppers, but now, the work for return thing just counts them out.

PS once you go beyond about 70-80:1, it gets really hard to generate any wheelspeed to bump up an obstacle- if you start to run out of traction you can't fix it with a bump, so you end up being in a taller gear anyway, and all the granny gears end up being just for show. they are cool though, but not as cool as the tricks you can pull with an auto :o)

Dual hilux xfers has been done and is strong.

Search Pirate for scwafish's build, his was zook 1600 EFI + toy 5 speed + toy duals.

As Gwagensteve said, there will be a lot of custom stuff to do any way that you go. From memory this isn't an issue for you...

The Dual t -case set up on Zookpower is pretty easy and hassle free.MLC on there (my brother) Ran his for 3 years now. Good to go.

Just got a email back from Calmini in the States and 5.14 are $550 were as 6.5 are $750 US dollars plus $158 to ship to WA works out about $944 and $1210 both are for full kits ie bearings idler shaft seals so series 3s at $1200 plus arnt looking that good .Ive got to get some gears as even with 5.29 hilux diffs my 1st gear low is only 43 to 1 not low enough for 38 Swampers with a 1.3 motor

duncan wrote:Just got a email back from Calmini in the States and 5.14 are $550 were as 6.5 are $750 US dollars plus $158 to ship to WA works out about $944 and $1210 both are for full kits ie bearings idler shaft seals so series 3s at $1200 plus arnt looking that good .Ive got to get some gears as even with 5.29 hilux diffs my 1st gear low is only 43 to 1 not low enough for 38 Swampers with a 1.3 motor

the calmini gears might be dearer(SP)? but i havent heard of breakage

did u try rocky road and trail tough?

they have 8:1 and 6.4:1 gears

duncan wrote:Just got a email back from Calmini in the States and 5.14 are $550 were as 6.5 are $750 US dollars plus $158 to ship to WA works out about $944 and $1210 both are for full kits ie bearings idler shaft seals so series 3s at $1200 plus arnt looking that good .Ive got to get some gears as even with 5.29 hilux diffs my 1st gear low is only 43 to 1 not low enough for 38 Swampers with a 1.3 motor

THESE ONLY COME WITH THE COUNTER SHAFT,WASHERS,BEARINGS AND GASKETS AND OIL....

NOT A FULL BEARING KIT...

Gwagensteve wrote:Duals used to look like the way to go when you couldn't get Rockhoppers, but now, the work for return thing just counts them out.

PS once you go beyond about 70-80:1, it gets really hard to generate any wheelspeed to bump up an obstacle- if you start to run out of traction you can't fix it with a bump, so you end up being in a taller gear anyway, and all the granny gears end up being just for show. they are cool though, but not as cool as the tricks you can pull with an auto :o)

RIGHT ON!

i said this once before and got flamed big time, but you are spot on. i have had both duals and crawlers and have learnt by both wheelin and competing that between 65:1 and 100:1 is ideal for any situation. if you are still strugling then the motor doesnt have enough torque! nearly everyone competing in XRCC will agree, you still need wheelspeed to bump up ledges, sometimes you just cant crawl-it!

how about the 1.3L motor with the hilux 5 speed box and

thats true ,but how sweet is low gear for control in huge ruts and higher traction stuations where sometimes a balancing act is required

anyone played with twin cases lately?

hey duncan
hows it going

id say go the duals (toy dual)
much stronger than zook witch would suit running 36'' to 38'' tyres

no power loss when in hi-range 2wd & no gear reduction (2wd)
can select 1st t-case for sand driving when needing a little speed
OR
driving like the QLD boys N wanting some tyre speed to climb the rocks

or can select both t-cases for real slow rock crawlin

std WT transfer case is == 25KG
DUAL toys == 48kg

id say good trade off for added strenght
can get a OTT divorced kit for running a zook box
OR
use a kit to mount a toy box upto your zook 1.3 - 1.6 block