Outer Limits 4x4 Board

first and foremost i dont own a TOYOTA my mate does.

apart from a strange choice of 4b he is also computer illiterate,so here goes he owns a hilux,he has been told you can put coils in the rear i searched back through the last ten pages and found no reference or threads.

my is can this be done and how hard is it.

any help would be .

Hi hookedonsuzi!

Take a look at this link:
http://www.4lux.net/index.php?set_albumName=album82&option=com_gallery&Itemid=&include=view_album.php

This guy did a complete coil conversion on his lux.
Maybe a help...

Michael

is this legal anywhere???

get the rear end off a surf !!!!

hookedonsuzi
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:55 pm

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first and foremost i dont own a TOYOTA my mate does.

apart from a strange choice of 4b he is also computer illiterate,so here goes he owns a hilux,he has been told you can put coils in the rear i searched back through the last ten pages and found no reference or threads.

my is can this be done and how hard is it.

any help would be .

PM me with your email and I'll send you some pics of mine

HiluxMichael wrote:Hi hookedonsuzi!

Take a look at this link:
http://www.4lux.net/index.php?set_albumName=album82&option=com_gallery&Itemid=&include=view_album.php

This guy did a complete coil conversion on his lux.
Maybe a help...

Michael

yes but radius arms front and rear, good for a touring rig/mild wheeler

hey bubs do you know anything about the legalities of coil conversion in qld?

just curious

benno

benno_from_brizvegas wrote:hey bubs do you know anything about the legalities of coil conversion in qld?

just curious

benno

It can be engineered

bubs wrote:
yes but radius arms front and rear, good for a touring rig/mild wheeler

you´re right - but it works in all the bunderas

(this is my brothers LJ73)

4wd monthly did a writeup on a guy in Toowoomba that did coil conversions (mind you they stil kept the main leaf spring as a way of locating the diff) so you might want to check that out it was quite a while ago that i saw it though..

HiluxMichael wrote:

bubs wrote:
yes but radius arms front and rear, good for a touring rig/mild wheeler

you´re right - but it works in all the bunderas

(this is my brothers LJ73)

it doesn't work very well in bunderas (or any vehicle with that set up) - there is significant binding inherent in the 3-link leading/training arm setup, and it will never articulate well. quite comfortable for touring and reasonable articulation (bunderas make about 700 on a 20 degree ramp in stock form) for mild 4-wheeling but never any good for hardcore. If you're making the swap to improve articulation this is NOT the way to go. 3 link rear wih a-frame or 4 link, and a 5 link front is probably the easiest to set up with maximum articulation.

ok guys this got way of track.

is this a good conversion or not.

ok it can be engineered and can be done.

is it worth it,how hard is it.

any idea on costs.

bubs please reply.

regards hooked.

hookedonsuzi wrote:
is this a good conversion or not.

this is like asking if apples are good or not. if you want coils, yes it's good. to make it work well you need to do it right (4/5 link or A frame, not radius arms bundera style).

is it worth it,how hard is it.

once again this is a very subjective question - it will be worth it to some and not to others, and it will be hard for some, and not for others. it is worth it if you think spending the money and doing the work is worth the improvement in ride and articulation. If you can measure, cut, drill, weld etc, and have the necessary tools, then it's not so hard. If you have a hacksaw and a hand drill then you have an uphill battle.

any idea on costs.

once again depends on your skill level and what you are going to have to pau someone else to do. For a shop to do it all, you're looking at anything in the $1200 - $2000 ballpark, drive in drive out, before engineering. If you have the tools and skills to do it yourself, you could get it down to a few hundred, especially if you can get parts cheaply from wreckers etc.

troll through the members section and find the guys who have done it, ask them how they did it and whay it cost them, then make up your own mind what it will cost and whether or not its worth it - they aren't the sort of questions someone else can answer for you.

cheers

Brian

hookedonsuzi wrote:ok guys this got way of track.

is this a good conversion or not.

ok it can be engineered and can be done.

is it worth it,how hard is it.

any idea on costs.

bubs please reply.

regards hooked.

1st of what is the lux being used for

I am doing a double trianglulated 4 link in my hilux 1982, only because I was running the V8 I was worried about axle wrap with the leaf springs and because I didn't want the bus wheel base I had 117"

It is hard to design a coil setup that will work I wont know till I drive it how it will perform but on paper it should be fine

Cost, can your mate weld or fabricate if you had to pay a shop it would guess at least a figure of $2000, I have $48 in bushes, $200 in steel and $50 in springs and about 15hrs in mine

I'm doin mine with an A frame out of a Range Rover, rangie coils, coil seats, only have to fab brackets to mount this to, will prob invest in an adjustable panhard and some 3rds trailing arms , will prob end up around 600 for conversion all up.

you could do it like this.

You know try biting off more than you can chew.IM STILL CHEWING

Do your home work!!!!!!

professor wrote:you could do it like this.

You know try biting off more than you can chew.IM STILL CHEWING

Do your home work!!!!!!

hey Prof, are they the same silverstone tyres that AnthonyP blew up and had replaced under warranty? they sound scary...

nice fab work.


cheers

Brian

dumbdunce wrote:

professor wrote:you could do it like this.

You know try biting off more than you can chew.IM STILL CHEWING

Do your home work!!!!!!

hey Prof, are they the same silverstone tyres that AnthonyP blew up and had replaced under warranty? they sound scary...

nice fab work.


cheers

Brian

Not sure Hope they hold up.

I'v only done a few trips on them.

Wont matter though they are only going to be a rental set of tyres anyway I'm getting a set of 38 boggers for the lux.

Now back to the thread! the double triangle 4 link is great, even better with the coil overs.

All 5 link gear is over rated there is only one advantage with 5 link and that is the ability to adjust castor for big lifts. thay still bind up as much as the normal radious arms.But up untill now this was the only way to have a front end set up(other than a 4 link in the front)

Having said that there is now a solution to all radious arm binding( other than a 4 link in the front) that will do away with 5 links and the problem of binding.
Keep on eye on my rig in the next few months
This will be big and I'm excited to have the first rig eva to have this patent.

professor wrote:
All 5 link gear is over rated there is only one advantage with 5 link and that is the ability to adjust castor for big lifts. thay still bind up as much as the normal radious arms

this is a ridiculous claim. have you SEEN the articulation difference between the front and rear of an 80 series or GU/GQ? all the binding in a 5 link setup is due to the design of the linkage ends - in the case of patrol and landcruiser, it is limited by the available twist and crush in the rubber eye bushes, but if you example you changed the bush ends for rose joints (or even just undo the bolts a turn so the end bush crush sleeves are free to turn!), flex from a five link is limited only by the physical limitations of links hitting each other, tyres hitting the chassis/body etc, as with a triangulated 4 link.

the radius arm setup on patrol/80 series front, bundera front and rear, relies entirely on crush and twist in the extremely stiff axle-to-control arm bushes for its minimal flex - the setup is designed almost entirely for on-road control at minimal cost. if you replaced the bushes with rose joints, articulation would be reduced to near zero as there would be no compression available in the joints. if you want to see what the binding on this setup is doing in a practical, measurable way, ramp a stock 80 or patrol (on a ramp or a pile of dirt, it doesn't matter), then back it up, pull out one (just one, from one side, leave the other side alone) of the front-most leading arm to axle mounting bolts, then ramp it again, preferable with the removed bolt on the low side.

I'm not discounting the fact that 4 link setups are great for articulation, and the advantage they inherently have over 5-links is they are symmetrical, but they are difficult to fit in front, and *will* have bump- and flex- steer issues when used on a steering axle, no matter how well you set it up (unless you go full hydro), whereas a 5 link, properly set up, will have almost zero flex- or bump-steer.

cheers

Brian

talk to beebee

dumbdunce wrote:

professor wrote:
All 5 link gear is over rated there is only one advantage with 5 link and that is the ability to adjust castor for big lifts. thay still bind up as much as the normal radious arms

this is a ridiculous claim. have you SEEN the articulation difference between the front and rear of an 80 series or GU/GQ? all the binding in a 5 link setup is due to the design of the linkage ends - in the case of patrol and landcruiser, it is limited by the available twist and crush in the rubber eye bushes, but if you example you changed the bush ends for rose joints (or even just undo the bolts a turn so the end bush crush sleeves are free to turn!), flex from a five link is limited only by the physical limitations of links hitting each other, tyres hitting the chassis/body etc, as with a triangulated 4 link.

the radius arm setup on patrol/80 series front, bundera front and rear, relies entirely on crush and twist in the extremely stiff axle-to-control arm bushes for its minimal flex - the setup is designed almost entirely for on-road control at minimal cost. if you replaced the bushes with rose joints, articulation would be reduced to near zero as there would be no compression available in the joints. if you want to see what the binding on this setup is doing in a practical, measurable way, ramp a stock 80 or patrol (on a ramp or a pile of dirt, it doesn't matter), then back it up, pull out one (just one, from one side, leave the other side alone) of the front-most leading arm to axle mounting bolts, then ramp it again, preferable with the removed bolt on the low side.

I'm not discounting the fact that 4 link setups are great for articulation, and the advantage they inherently have over 5-links is they are symmetrical, but they are difficult to fit in front, and *will* have bump- and flex- steer issues when used on a steering axle, no matter how well you set it up (unless you go full hydro), whereas a 5 link, properly set up, will have almost zero flex- or bump-steer.

cheers

Brian

I will say it again All 5 link gear is over rated and thats
my opinion

who the hell said i was changing the rubbers for rose joints
Quote
If you replaced the bushes with rose joints, articulation would be reduced to near zero as there would be no compression available in the joints

It is the same for 5 links!!!!!!!!!

If you do the math and look at it you still have 4 points mounted to the diff the same or simular to your stock setup(80 off the show room floor)
so that means you are relying on the flex of your rubbers on the ends of your links to allow movement(that is if you have rubbers) i must agree that the 5 link is better than the standard radious setup but not by much!!!!

Quote
if you want to see what the binding on this setup is doing in a practical, measurable way, ramp a stock 80 or patrol (on a ramp or a pile of dirt, it doesn't matter), then back it up, pull out one (just one, from one side, leave the other side alone) of the front-most leading arm to axle mounting bolts, then ramp it again, preferable with the removed bolt on the low side.

Try doing the same with your 5 link undo one of the bolts and i bet the hole wont line up when you drive up on some dirt

All this is a known fact and the 5 link was the only answer up untill now.
I will keep you all posted!


Chad

Well I've just started mine.
It's not a hardcore set up like many of you guys but the rear end part from a surf (5-link)
Should be a straight forward job as the chasis are the same Hilux/Surf.
I'm just sick of leaves and torsion bars.


Dazza

If anyone is interested I will be selling the triangulated 3 link out of the back of my Surf (formerly NICK's).

It hasn't been used, so all bushes and coils are new, even has custom alloy fuel tank built around it, but I'll be keeping that I think.

Josh.

anyone know if u could get a coil rear legal in wa

Da Lux wrote:anyone know if u could get a coil rear legal in wa

Not sure, but I will be trying in the near future. WA laws suck I would think that you would need to do a lane chage test to get it approved.

Chris.

cbr wrote:

Da Lux wrote:anyone know if u could get a coil rear legal in wa

Not sure, but I will be trying in the near future. WA laws suck I would think that you would need to do a lane chage test to get it approved.

Chris.

Could just a stiffer set of springs help out in a lane change test???

sway bars with disconnects work well
beebee has 4link rear in his daily driven comp car fully enginerred in qld
works a treat

pm 1madengineer on here and he will be able to point u in the right direction.
Chris