Outer Limits 4x4 Board

just an update on the subject of fitting patrol GQ/GU std rear springs into rear of pajero.
went down to the wreckers the other day and measured them all up.
GQ/GU std rear springs measured 180mm outside dia, 140mm inside dia and 450mm free length.
std paj rear springs measured 180mm outside dia, 145mm inside dia and 400mm free length (all sizes measured with a tape, so not super accurate).
so looks like the nissan springs will go straight in giving a 50mm lift and be slightly stiffer than std due to greater wire diameter.
speaking to a mate today about his old pair of GU rear springs. He ows me a favour !

on the subject of lifting the paj, does the camber etc have to be adjusted at the front, when you crank the torsion bars ?
also whilst at the wreckers i came across some KYB rear adjuatable(4 position) gas shockers. code on them was - HC25 / SSB2031.
anybody had any experience with these ???
cheers
cookie monster

Yes thats what we discovered a GQ/GU standard rear coil will fit into the back of a Paj and give about a 2" lift. The ride will be a bit stiffer though.
KYB shocks are original OEM Mitsu fitment to Paj's and are not a bad shock I haven't seen their 4 stage adjustables before so can't really comment.

The camber will go out with the lift.
I have found that the topl joint flip helps offset it,as long as you are going high enough in the front.
On the subject of the top joint flip I have found this is very hard on the 8mm factory bolts,some snapping and some coming loose, so I have drilled some out to 10mm now,joint and wishbone, for increased safety.
J Top

[quote="J Top" The camber will go out with the lift.]

so does that mean increased tyre wear and poorer steering operation ?
any other side effects ?
probably crank so 30-40mm higher.
cookie monster

With the raised front the shorter top wishbone drops quicker than the
longer lower one pulling in the upright at the top and making it look "knock knee'd".This must effect tyre wear but whether to any noticable amount I don't know.You raise the top arm back up and straighten up the upright by doing the Ball Joint Flip.
J Top

had a look at the upper wishbone the other day and it looks as though you could adjust the camber by reducing the shims that are between the chassis and the mounting bolts for the top wishbone(looking inside the engine bay). reducing the shims would bring the wheel to a more upright position.
is this common knowledge?

cookie monster

I haven't stuck my head down there and had a good look, but when I had my front end lifted by Fulcrum Suspension they needed longer bolts so they could install more shims.

Anybody else?

Scott

I have just lifted mine but haven't had a wheel alignment done yet.
I was talking to one of the guys at the club meeting the other night and he said that I might need to get more shims put it to fix up the camber.

Yeah from memory there are 3 shims either side from the factory on the upper wishbone mounts.
Once the torsion bars are cranked signifigantly the wheels end up looking like this (looking from the front) = / \
To restore camber shims are added which space the upper wishbones from their mounts which straightens the wheels as they will pivot on the balljoints.

Will the gq/gu springs fit the rear of a gen one paj? I have an 85 nb lwb!

Cheers, Dean

Aren't Gen 1 paj's all Leaf sprung ? GQ and GU are coil springs. the would fit, if you did a coil conversion.

Adding shims is correct.

It pulls the top of the wheel in towards the centre of the car and fixes the "knock knee'd" appearance the lift gives and stops the car pulling everywhere.

Get the alignment/caster and camber checked

Hekta wrote:Aren't Gen 1 paj's all Leaf sprung ? GQ and GU are coil springs. the would fit, if you did a coil conversion.

I guess i'm the d**khead here! I never even gave that a thought! I forgot that Gen 2 paj's are coil rear! My Bad!

Cheers, Dean

well i finally got the std nissan gu/gq rear coils fitted to the paj.
they give 4'' - yes 4'' of lift to the rear
so had to crank the front 2'' so it didnt look too daft
the extra hight above 2'' that was mentioned originally was due to the thicker wire diameter. std paj are 15.5 to 16mm, the std nissan's are 17 to 17.5mm.

will this give me any grief with prop shaft angle etc ?
still running std rear shocks.

the ride doesnt seem to have suffered unduly.
will post some pics once i have uploaded them to my web page.
cookie monster

Cookie Monster could i have the height measurements from the ground or bottom lip of the rim to the top of guard lip I want to see if your mod will let me in my roller doors
thanks Trevor C

[quote="TREVORC" Cookie Monster could i have the height measurements from the ground or bottom lip of the rim to the top of guard lip I want to see if your mod will let me in my roller doors
thanks Trevor C/quote]

hi trevor
the measurement from the btm of the 16'' rim to the lip of the rear wheel arch is 840mm (original size was 745mm).
the overall height (with 265-75-16's) is approx 2mtrs.
cookie monster
ps what part of adelaide are you in ? im at happy valley.

pic after the lift.



cookie monster

Geezus
Yep you will be chewing out rear uni's like crazy with that height.
Also check your handbrake cables at full flex my bet they will be pulling the handbrake on.
I would be looking at some 2-2.5" Paj specific coils I think thats too high in the rear with the IFS. But it was worth a try anyway

any point in trying to cut down the nissan springs?
would guess i would have to cut 50mm off to acheive the 50mm lift i was after originally.
any thoughts ??

cookie monster

My buddy has 4" lift coils on his 89 and has no problem with eating uni's and its been that way for 2 years.

Hi Cookie
If you cut down a Coil you make it a higher spring rate.
Think of a coil as a straight rod. The shorter the rod the harder it is to bend or flex.
J Top

showed my 4wd mechanic (grant @ x country 4wd) the car today. his opinion was that the propshaft angle was not too great.
he suggested spacing down the gearbox cross member 10mm, as i aired my worries about the angle.
this would involve removing the propshaft shroud to gain clearance and then putting 10mm packers between the x member and also the transfer case bash plate. should be easy to do and i would feel better !

he also said to check the down travel of the front suspension. should have approx 50mm of down travel to stop the car lifting a wheel when going through spoon drains etc. will involve cutting bump stops down and checking that shocks dont bottom before hitting bump stops.
he also mentioned swoping top ball joint to help with road manners and wheel alignment-dont know whether to go that far ??

also as frank suggested i will check the rear brake cables at full droop and also check that the rear shocks arnt bottoming out too soon.

looks like a busy weekend of checking !!
will keep you all posted.

cookie monster

Hi Cookie
If your front shocks are too short you can get more drop by bolting a spacer between the lower mount and the lower wishbone.
You will need to check that up travel is still ok.
Remember 10mm at the shock is a lot at the wheel.
The other thing about cutting bumpstops is that it allows the top joint to swivel further which may bring it to the end of it's travel. Flipping the top joint reduces its angle again.
J Top

does that mean that it is better to do the ball joint flip than cutting bumpstops down ?
sounds like the ball joint flip is a bit of an issue with you breaking bolts !

cookie

It is all a compromise.
For a w/end bash truck I wouldn't hesitate to b/j flip and cut stops but for a D/D I would cut the stops and run less height so you aren't at the extremes constantly.
The b/j flip, IMHO, saves CVs and Boots by reducing working angles
I have set 1 up with 25mm spacers and it artic'd very well but I would be worried about doing long trips on your back roads like that.
J Top

What's the deal with the Balljoint Flip ? Is it a simple unbolt and rebolt on the underside of the arm ? or is it more complicated than that ?

I'm interested in doing it if it isn't going to be too hard

It is that simple, but.....,
the joint locates it's self on the top of the A arm but underneath it is sloppy in a hole. I drilled out the joint and the A arm to 10mm from 8mm to run larger bolts as I found 8mm bolts loose and broken after hard workouts. Use good quality , high tensile , cap screws which have a shoulder , not fully threaded, to locate firmly in the holes to act as a dowel
Check the bolt condition regularly to develop a feel for how they are
handling the job.
Don't be put off by all this , just be aware of the possibilities.
J Top

Thanks dude, I'll get onto that soon.

well i have completed the suspension upgrade for the minute.
since fitting the rear springs i have made up some longer sway bar links and also made some 10mm spacers for the gearbox x member. this was done to reduce the tailshaft angle a bit (although there was no vibration present). it dropped the gearbox end uni joint by 20mm.
one possible problem could be the tailshaft shroud, its now very close to the x member.
i also machined 10mm off the front upper bump stops, to achieve about 40mm of droop. may look at going another 5mm down the track and fitting manual hubs.


gearbox spacers


tailshaft shroud


swaybar link and spring




full droop

cookie monster

Good Cookie
Now just make up some disconnects for that rear bar.
J Top