Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I am pulling my 3.5 Rover V8 out this weekend to make way for a 1UZ-FE tojo engine. I thought it would be good to know how much gain there will be so I put it on a dyno this afternoon.

50.2 Horsepower! With that few I could nearly give each horse a name.

Does anyone here know how much horsepower they are putting out at the wheel? I'm not talking about estimates or beer figures but actual figures that can be backed up by a dyno? I would be interested to know how much power the 4.4 and 4.0 guys are putting out.

bugger the tojo and put in an ls1 and change the cam to suite lower revs. Cheaper parts now and plenty of knowledge about for the engine. More $$$ initally though. It would be feasiable for me to do this at the end of this year but I want to keep some money to help me thorugh the rest of uni after this year:cry:

On topic I have no idea about power at the wheels for the disco but I'm guessing it wouldn't be much more than what you've got. Top the punny 3.9l with a power sapping auto and i'm surprised the car still moves. Did you get a torque figure. You should check for these too becasue I would prefer a nice torquie (spelling?) engine over a hightech, high reving, high power, high something engine.

The torque is the embarrasing line at the bottom

I do not know what it is in horse power, but my 4.4 puts out a bit over 70KW at the wheels.

p76rangie wrote:I do not know what it is in horse power, but my 4.4 puts out a bit over 70KW at the wheels.

That's 94 HP.

auto_eng wrote:
50.2 Horsepower! With that few I could nearly give each horse a name.

Rudolph, Blitzer, Dancer........

auto_eng wrote:The torque is the embarrasing line at the bottom

lol. Never expanded the picture so I didn't see it. Thats the only plus I see with the rover v8's is that they have torque from right down low (no pun intended). Not many engines can sit at 750 rpm and still move you happily. At least I notice this with the disco. Its what you'd expect in an engine however thats been developed specifically for offroad for over 25 years.

auto_eng wrote:I am pulling my 3.5 Rover V8 out this weekend to make way for a 1UZ-FE tojo engine. I thought it would be good to know how much gain there will be so I put it on a dyno this afternoon.

50.2 Horsepower! With that few I could nearly give each horse a name.

Does anyone here know how much horsepower they are putting out at the wheel? I'm not talking about estimates or beer figures but actual figures that can be backed up by a dyno? I would be interested to know how much power the 4.4 and 4.0 guys are putting out.

Don't know about output figures but I had no problem with my twin carby 3.9 getting the tyres to chirp hitting second, 6500rpm no problems, was overtaking semitrailers no problems at 110kph with a 1.3 tonne lighting plant trailer behind. A lot of mucking around involved with non factory engines, got a good exhaust and free enough air intake? Matched all the ports on the manifolds? Still had enough grunt down low to climb stuff at zero rpm on the tacho with the ignition light flickering too.

Auto-eng,
these are real figues for flywheel and to be honest unless someone has actually done this conversion then dyno you will be hard pressed to work out rear wheel from engine figues or vic verka.

3.5 efi RR produces 116kw flywheel. new. 153 hp.
1UZ-FE produces 205kw flywheel. new. 271hp.
If you get it running right with computer programing there is a significant amount of power above this figure without modification. A gooood programmer will also be able to pull torque down lower etc. It will have similar % gains in torque and will be around same rpm. If you want to be silly you should be able to get the thing to rev to around 8000rpm.
very strong large bottom end. very good motor all round. 6 bolt mains herd of over 600kw twin turbo with the engine unmodified.

If you got the engine have fun I can't afford that motor. was thought of though.

A friend of mine is running a 1UZ-FE and he get about 225 hp at the rear wheels but it has an aftermarket computer, extractors and a lot less driveline losses.
The dyno guys said to allow another 15% loss roughly for being a 4x4 and a bit less for the std stuff so hopefully I can get the 150 hp at the tyres. That's still tripple what it's got now.

what driveline are you running ??

A LT95 4 speed manual and some dead stock axles/diffs & some 31's

Yes I hear you laughing. I expect the old 10 spliners to give up pretty quickly. I plan on changing to tojo diffs like HSV Rangie did or some GQ axles but I am going the 1/2 cage and seats first.

On Graeme Cooper's Dyno Dynamics My 3.9 auto with 245.75 x16 tyres (so figures down by 5%) in second gear produced
66KW standard
75Kw with uni chip only
80.4KW with chip, snorkel, ported heads, modified exhaust
I think it is a bit more than this as the final figure only equals 180BHP at the flywheel, whicch is the figure for a standard motor. I think driveline losses are MORE than 30% on a Range Rover auto also.

Regards Philip A

I don't feel so bad now, having seen a few other figures.

1999 4.0 RR Auto
CNJ Motorsport Dyno, tyres were 5% larger diameter (245/75 over 235/70)
Standard - 85HP (64KW) @ 3500RPM, 117HP (88KW) @ 5000RPM
Unichip & Air Filter - 96HP (72KW) @ 3500RPM, 125HP (94KW) @ 5300RPM

Stick with a Rover V8 if you can - anything else is just not cricket.
May be a slug around town but engine has enough torque for chugging up tracks or ploughing through the sand with trailer, tents, kids and dogs...

How much power- not enough

Just miss my 3.9, but with 275,000 kms I couldn't be botherd rebuilding it. May look at a 4.0 block soon, but I may be able to line up a ritters 4.2 stroker block off a bloke in our club (has upgraded to a 4.6). But we'll wait and see.

Trav

4.2 vitesse efi, aftermarket ecu, unifilter, stock exhaust manifolds & single 2 1/4" system, 10:1 comp & trs cam, dual fuel, no engine driven fan/thermo's only, 1k km after full rebuild, 235/85/16's, 1.41:1 tcase, 3.54:1 diff, zf auto, front shaft out

~100 rwhp @ 5000 rpm on gas
~120 rwhp @ 4200 rpm on optimax (dizzy curved and tuned for gas = detonation @ 4200+ rpm)

Rover motors are light, compact, expensive to build, hard to get a broad spread of power from without cubic $ and forced induction

1uz = cheap way to 200kw, strong, bigger package, heavier than Rover V8, custom made everything, jap build quality and design, more potential than Rover engine

vh45 = see comments for 1uz, but bigger and better, variable cam timing, more cubes etc


Ls1, Ls2 etc = who really has this sort of money?

I have one in a LS400 Lexus sedan, 150,000km old.

I can't speak highly enough of it, on a recent trip from Hobart to Cooktown, fully loaded with climate control on etc, got 29mpg.
These engines are fantastic, and if you keep the auto trans from car also, and use all original ECU's etc, I think the efficiency could be excellent. The auto is a beauty, in sport mode will hold to 6500/ rev cutout, shifts are firm but soft in normal mode, and I can't overheat it.
If I hadn't gone diesel, I might just have done it myself.
Good luck.
JC
( One problem though, valve clearance adjustments are bucket and shim type, and 32 of them takes about 2 days to get them all right!)

2001 TD5 Defender, Self built intercooler, 3" exhaust and hotted ECU. 305-70-16 Dick Cepeks....
96kw at the wheels on DD 4wheel dyno.

1999 TD5 Discovery, Stock intercooler, Stock exhaust. Modded ECU
265-75-16 Dick Cepeks...
89Kw at the wheels on the same dyno.

I had a P76 fitted earlier in the year. It had been rebuilt using holden pistons about sixty thou oversize, which we worked out made the engine approx 4.6L, stage 1 cam and 350 holley, 2.25 single exhaust with the later style manifolds - not extractors.

running a LT95 with the later high range gearing and 31's muds.

When first fitted max torque 560FtLb @ 70kph 2830 rpm, Power 139HP @ 102kph 4100rpm, then later had it properly dyno tuned power increased to 157HP. I am fairly sure test was done in 3rd gear. All figures at rear wheels in 4WD.

Unsure what the conversion is to kw, but it certainly made a difference to the old 3.5L

Guy

stock 300tdi in D110, 150,000km's, 44kw's at the wheels, 4 wheel drive dyno.
serg

Hobie18 wrote:I had a P76 fitted earlier in the year. It had been rebuilt using holden pistons about sixty thou oversize, which we worked out made the engine approx 4.6L, stage 1 cam and 350 holley, 2.25 single exhaust with the later style manifolds - not extractors.

running a LT95 with the later high range gearing and 31's muds.

When first fitted max torque 560FtLb @ 70kph 2830 rpm, Power 139HP @ 102kph 4100rpm, then later had it properly dyno tuned power increased to 157HP. I am fairly sure test was done in 3rd gear. All figures at rear wheels in 4WD.

Unsure what the conversion is to kw, but it certainly made a difference to the old 3.5L

Guy

Thats some pretty healthy figures. I should mention my figures were with 31's and an LT95 tranny. I'm pretty sure that it was done in 4th gear.

Philip A wrote:On Graeme Cooper's Dyno Dynamics My 3.9 auto with 245.75 x16 tyres (so figures down by 5%)

Regards Philip A

why are your figures down by 5%???
tyre size makes no difference, maybe the weight difference may matter, but size doesn't.


oh, and forget the theory of aproximate driveline losses being about 30%, it can be wildly more or less than that.

Hi.

I got my car back from the dyno place today.
After a tune up...
RPM kW
1500 40
2000 51
2500 64
3000 76
3500 83
4000 88
4500 91

This was in "2 wd mode"

Stock 4.2 Stroker, Petrol.

Tim

Re discussion on dynos. I am afraid I do not believe many results.
have a look at www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm .
I really only look at the before after comparison , and that has to be backed up by seat of pants!!! No one can compare results from different dynos.
Regards Philip A

Philip A wrote:Re discussion on dynos. I am afraid I do not believe many results.
have a look at www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm .
I really only look at the before after comparison , and that has to be backed up by seat of pants!!! No one can compare results from different dynos.
Regards Philip A

I only ever go on dyno dynamics dyno's, IMO the rest are not up to standard. DD dyno's are the most popular, and are calibrated by the makers.

CRUSHU wrote:

Philip A wrote:Re discussion on dynos. I am afraid I do not believe many results.
have a look at www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm .
I really only look at the before after comparison , and that has to be backed up by seat of pants!!! No one can compare results from different dynos.
Regards Philip A

I only ever go on dyno dynamics dyno's, IMO the rest are not up to standard. DD dyno's are the most popular, and are calibrated by the makers.

Yeh. They've got their new shootout mode which is supposed to give very close results no matter where in Australia you are located or which dyno you use.

At first I thought the 50.2 at the wheels was pretty low but after talking to a few other Rangie owners it seems that is about the right figure for a 3.5 V8. I was told a lot of Cruisers are only in the 40's for newish ones.

Good to see some of the bigger engines are putting out bigger numbers.

My old 3.9 with a wolf 3d injection system and H and M headers and a 2 1/2" exhaust made 138hp at the treads on a four wheel dyno here in perth

I have an early Rangie with the 1UZ in it.

Without doubt this is the best engine they ever put fuel in.

I had a very hot John Davis 4.6 engine that drank fuel and wouldn't rev past 5500, now I have an engine happy at 6500 and using less than half the fuel of the original.

My LT77 doen't like the torque so I'll change to the Toyota auto.

Whilst the RR produced torque lower down the rev range it produces much less torque. My "butt-o-meter" tells me the 1UZ has no less torque down low but heaps more up top.

I can get the front end unstuck in round-abouts. accelerate at 2,500 rpm and both front tyres let go and this is with 12.5r33x15's!

I would never go back.

[/quote]I have an early Rangie with the 1UZ in it

Zuffen who did your conversion etc what was the cost
Peter