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TAILSHAFT ANGLES
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:39 pm
by OVERKILL ENG
Okay a question for peoples thoughts
If you have a truck with an offset transfer output for the rear drive and then put a rear diff in that has a central pumkin how many angles are ther on the tailshaft.
SAM
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:42 pm
by redzook
1 angle
the top uni points straight to the diff flange
and the bottom uni points straight to the transfer flange
exact same as a regular driveshaft
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:46 pm
by MY45
redzook wrote:1 angle
the top uni points straight to the diff flange
and the bottom uni points straight to the transfer flange
exact same as a regular driveshaft
Bingo
Come on sam u know that
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:55 pm
by BOGAN V8
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:04 pm
by Busiboy
Same number as normal but they are a lot bigger angles that can't be improved on.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:26 pm
by OVERKILL ENG
redzook wrote:1 angle
the top uni points straight to the diff flange
and the bottom uni points straight to the transfer flange
exact same as a regular driveshaft
but it doesn't cause the flanges point beside each other
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:05 pm
by redzook
lol ur digging a hole
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:53 pm
by MKPatrolGuy
OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:redzook wrote:1 angle
the top uni points straight to the diff flange
and the bottom uni points straight to the transfer flange
exact same as a regular driveshaft
but it doesn't cause the flanges point beside each other
Still only one angle, it is just not vertical any more.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:24 pm
by OVERKILL ENG
okay if it is still one angle what causes it to vibrate then
SAM
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:37 pm
by hypo
it has 2 b 2 angles, the vertical and horizontal angles coz if the pinoin flange an tcase flange were in line from side 2 side then is wood only b 1 angle but coz they side by side there is more
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:43 pm
by spazbot
are the unis in phase ?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:54 pm
by 360 scout
does not matter how many angles there is on unis as long they are the same both ends & have a minimum of 5 & max of 27degrees misalignment .
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:04 pm
by OVERKILL ENG
spazbot wrote:are the unis in phase ?
good question we have done 2 vehicles with this setup a rangie with patrol diffs and a zook with lux diffs. with bothe trucks have the unis phased correctly vibrates like a C!!!! take the unis out of phase nearly perfect.
SAM
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:28 pm
by BOGAN V8
KRAWLA had same issuses with his using hilux diff with zook transfer offset heaps ended up putting in bundera diff and high pinion in the rear help out the vibration heaps almost not existant........
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:33 pm
by Busiboy
I reckon the combined angles are too much.
It is only one angle but can be broken into two Vert and Horiz
Might need double cardin's, I had to do that when I SPOA my crusier 40s.
Made the beast drivable again.
Mine needed it at the gearbox end of both shafts. If you have that alignment prob with diffs etc, you might need em at both ends.
I think a tailshaft is sposed to only run about 5-10 degree's off flat. anything more and you get binding and bad vibes. Don't quote me on the angles but I think it is prety close.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:34 pm
by Spartacus
this may be off topic or what ur talkin about...
if my rocky trany is offset to the right and i put in central lux diffs
wont i fcuk something up?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:49 pm
by redzook
Spartacus wrote:this may be off topic or what ur talkin about...
if my rocky trany is offset to the right and i put in central lux diffs
wont i fcuk something up?
no toy diffs into a zuk are done all the time
y dont people get its only one angle?
it exact same a normal driveshaft
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:55 pm
by DaveS3
Busiboy wrote:1 - I reckon the combined angles are too much.
2 - I think a tailshaft is sposed to only run about 5-10 degree's off flat. anything more and you get binding and bad vibes. Don't quote me on the angles but I think it is prety close.
1 - I reckon your spot on.
2 - Its all dependand on they type/size of the uni. You can get wider ones that will cope with larger angles. The double cardin in my LR was removed and replaced with a wider/larger uni because it bound up.
Try to get a wider / larger uni that will cope with more angle as some double cardins bind before a larger uni.
Dave
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:03 pm
by BOGAN V8
y dont people get its only one angle?
it exact same a normal driveshaft
no its not
In a hilux you have 1 plane up/down
In the above application you have 2 planes up/bown & left/right
Thats two angles to me
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:07 pm
by Busiboy
just doing a bit of rough work asz I am intrigued now
guessing a bit here
say you have a 150mm drop from transfer to diff
with a 850mm shaft you run a 10 degree angle, not too bad
say your difference in offset is from transfer to diff pinion is about 250mm.
with a 850mm shaft you are running a 17 degree angle (bad for unis)
then you add both these angles together on the plane that the tailshaft is running
you have a combined 291mm offset on a 850mm shaft (this is going to hurt)
a 20 degree angle. you will be running cardin on cardin to keep that sucker quiet.
As for em working outta phase, I dunno, how long do they last? talk to a drive line man cause now I am outta my depth
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:08 pm
by redzook
BOGAN wrote:y dont people get its only one angle?
it exact same a normal driveshaft
no its not
In a hilux you have 1 plane up/down
In the above application you have 2 planes up/bown & left/right
Thats two angles to me
what happens when the car is on a side angle?
it wont be straight up and down then will it?
it would be exact same as a zuk with toy diffs
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:11 pm
by BOGAN V8
What do you mean on a side angle your diff doesnt move 200-300mm left to right does it i think you would have serious prob if it does
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:18 pm
by redzook
here is a pic i just took of mine
driver drop tcase (suzuki) to
toy diff wich is centered
i if u turn ur head on an angle to the left
u will realise it just looks like a normall drive shaft
i belive if i didnt have a double cardin it would not vibrate
also can some one who thinks there is 2 angles please draw them on here
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:22 pm
by DaveS3
Edit: Dumb thinking
My brain hurts
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:31 pm
by BOGAN V8
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:31 pm
by RUFF
Tim is spot on the money his set up is no different to a normal set up its just how some people look at it.
Only reason the shaft would vibrate is if its out of ballance or out of Phase.
Trucks run the shaft between the rear axles(Dual axle combination) with a very similar set up and they work fine for hundreds of thousands of Kilometers.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:33 pm
by RUFF
Now tilt your head to the left a little and tell me how many angles you see. Ignore anything else in the pic except the shaft and unis.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:35 pm
by BOGAN V8
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:31 pm
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Tim is spot on the money his set up is no different to a normal set up its just how some people look at it.
Only reason the shaft would vibrate is if its out of ballance or out of Phase.
Trucks run the shaft between the rear axles(Dual axle combination) with a very similar set up and they work fine for hundreds of thousands of Kilometers.
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even if the truck run their diff offset
all i know is KRAWLA put bundera rear housing instead of hilux and vibration gone
please explain it
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:39 pm
by DaveS3
His pinion angle must have been different.
Even 1 degree will make a difference
BTW - Look at this link
http://www.4xshaft.com/techinfo.html
I couldnt find anything about 2 different planes, but here is related Tech.
Dave
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:39 pm
by redzook
BOGAN wrote:Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:31 pm
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Tim is spot on the money his set up is no different to a normal set up its just how some people look at it.
Only reason the shaft would vibrate is if its out of ballance or out of Phase.
Trucks run the shaft between the rear axles(Dual axle combination) with a very similar set up and they work fine for hundreds of thousands of Kilometers.
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i thought u post up a bit futher krawla still has a bit of vib?
im not pickin on his rig again but it has alot of lift for a short tail shaft
even if the truck run their diff offset
all i know is KRAWLA put bundera rear housing instead of hilux and vibration gone
please explain it
i thought u post up a bit futher krawla still has a bit of vib?
im not pickin on his rig again but it has alot of lift for a short tail shaft
