Outer Limits 4x4 Board

13bt

Nice flat torque curve i hope

interesting...

i've always had mixed feelings about rotors and off road.

so, as we all know, rotors go round and round, and pistons go up and down, but when your off road, you can't use the entire 9000rpm rev range. (well you can, but its ur own fault)

rotors are light as anything, and the power you can get out of them is crazy. but when those rotors slow down, you might as well turn it off and push it up the hill.

and i just read, it is indeed a great MALLER.

SiKiD_01 wrote:i've always had mixed feelings about rotors and off road.

so, as we all know, rotors go round and round, and pistons go up and down, but when your off road, you can't use the entire 9000rpm rev range. (well you can, but its ur own fault)

rotors are light as anything, and the power you can get out of them is crazy. but when those rotors slow down, you might as well turn it off and push it up the hill.

and i just read, it is indeed a great MALLER.

A contrast to this would be an injected 6port 13b with auto, i think this setup would work well in something with gears (say sierra with 6:1)

I spent a lot of time in and out of rx2's 3's 4's & 7's a close comparison would be the 660 cap motor in Gregs beater (though it doesn't have half the top end of a ported rotor)

I miss my rotor :(

i feel i need to contribute to this

pretty good website (although he gets a little too excited about painting the inlet manifold and alternator blue)

http://www.zuki-r.com/

i plan on running the new RX8 Renesis 13B in my buggy, was originally going to use a 13B turbo, but the Renesis engine with aftermarket ECU and improved air filter and exhaust puts out almost as much power and tourque, but at a more usable level.
i'm planning on running an early model Mazda auto (Trimatic type) and a Vit transfer with Calmini 6.1:1 gears.

this will definitley be one to watch!

some guys in the states (Campbell Enterprises) have already had some success with this setup in a single seater moon buggy, so we'll see how my one pans out.

Chris

roc70y wrote:i feel i need to contribute to this

pretty good website (although he gets a little too excited about painting the inlet manifold and alternator blue)

http://www.zuki-r.com/

i plan on running the new RX8 Renesis 13B in my buggy, was originally going to use a 13B turbo, but the Renesis engine with aftermarket ECU and improved air filter and exhaust puts out almost as much power and tourque, but at a more usable level.
i'm planning on running an early model Mazda auto (Trimatic type) and a Vit transfer with Calmini 6.1:1 gears.

this will definitley be one to watch!

some guys in the states (Campbell Enterprises) have already had some success with this setup in a single seater moon buggy, so we'll see how my one pans out.

Chris

Sounds interesting, what difs/tyres e.t.c.

I think the key to a rotor powered buggy will be its weight, i.e. lux diffs over patrols, alloy rims single seater, make anything you can out of plastic.

Actually sidewinders would be cool.

i dont have anything against rotors at all, i have mates who have RX2 and 3's and now i have a mate with a new RX8. man those RX8 hammer.

with an off road application, gearing would play a major part in the success of a rotor off road.

oh, and i just remembered another thing, i once new someone a while back with a 12A rotor in his soft top sierra, it was sprung over only with some 31" muddies, so it was hell tippy, anyway, he rolled it a total of 5 times in the time he owned it (6 months). all occasions, climbing hills and biggish rocks. he came to the conclusion that the centrifugal (sp?) force of the rotors at mid to high rpms was what tipped him over. we all said that he was a sh!t driver. i guess we'll never know, as he drives a series 3 RX7 now, and he's still sh!t.

i wonder if that will play a part in a 4wd/buggy?

with a rotor in a buggy a hi stall converter and an auto would be the go i think, as you can then use the little amout of torque that a rotor has, with some gears, no lots of gears.

Matt

i love how u guys all believe that rotaries have no torque, it amuses me.

13B Twin 92+ Mazda RX-7 Seq. Turbo 654 x 2 = 1308 9.0 255BHP/6500, 217Lbs-Ft/5000


20B Twin turbo, Mazda Cosmo, 208Kw @ 6500rpm. Torque 400Nm @ 3500rpm. 0-100 km/h in 6.2 sec. 1/4 mile in 14.1 sec

this is in stock form and not at that higher revs either!

roc70y wrote:i feel i need to contribute to this

pretty good website (although he gets a little too excited about painting the inlet manifold and alternator blue)

http://www.zuki-r.com/

i plan on running the new RX8 Renesis 13B in my buggy, was originally going to use a 13B turbo, but the Renesis engine with aftermarket ECU and improved air filter and exhaust puts out almost as much power and tourque, but at a more usable level.
i'm planning on running an early model Mazda auto (Trimatic type) and a Vit transfer with Calmini 6.1:1 gears.

this will definitley be one to watch!

some guys in the states (Campbell Enterprises) have already had some success with this setup in a single seater moon buggy, so we'll see how my one pans out.

Chris

chris, the deepest gears you can get for the vit transfers are 4.24:1 iirc, 6:1 and 8:1 are only available for the sierra cases

roc70y wrote:i love how u guys all believe that rotaries have no torque, it amuses me.

13B Twin 92+ Mazda RX-7 Seq. Turbo 654 x 2 = 1308 9.0 255BHP/6500, 217Lbs-Ft/5000


20B Twin turbo, Mazda Cosmo, 208Kw @ 6500rpm. Torque 400Nm @ 3500rpm. 0-100 km/h in 6.2 sec. 1/4 mile in 14.1 sec

this is in stock form and not at that higher revs either!

I never said they don't have torque, but using the example of a 20b to defend the "rotors have no torque" argument is a little miss guided given that the 20b is half the motor capacity again and has a reputation for v8 type torque.

Quickest rotor i ever went in was a s4 capella converted to 12a turbo (I'm ex-mazda car club) and it pulled harder than anything v8 i've ever driven.

Remarkable little engines. I look forward to your buggy taking shape dude

bigsteve wrote:

roc70y wrote:i love how u guys all believe that rotaries have no torque, it amuses me.

13B Twin 92+ Mazda RX-7 Seq. Turbo 654 x 2 = 1308 9.0 255BHP/6500, 217Lbs-Ft/5000


20B Twin turbo, Mazda Cosmo, 208Kw @ 6500rpm. Torque 400Nm @ 3500rpm. 0-100 km/h in 6.2 sec. 1/4 mile in 14.1 sec

this is in stock form and not at that higher revs either!

I never said they don't have torque, but using the example of a 20b to defend the "rotors have no torque" argument is a little miss guided given that the 20b is half the motor capacity again and has a reputation for v8 type torque.

Quickest rotor i ever went in was a s4 capella converted to 12a turbo (I'm ex-mazda car club) and it pulled harder than anything v8 i've ever driven.

Remarkable little engines. I look forward to your buggy taking shape dude

yeah BigSteve, i wasn't refering to you, but hell, why not use a 20b to shut people up who are ill-informed when it comes to rotas, besides that, i did put the modest 13b turbo figures first.
My previous rx4 was putting out over 200kw at the wheels and about 190lbs/ft on the dyno, 13b turbo.

i'm looking forward to getting the buggy done too, show the "v8 only" guys a thing or 2.

Chris

roc70y wrote:

bigsteve wrote:

roc70y wrote:i love how u guys all believe that rotaries have no torque, it amuses me.

13B Twin 92+ Mazda RX-7 Seq. Turbo 654 x 2 = 1308 9.0 255BHP/6500, 217Lbs-Ft/5000


20B Twin turbo, Mazda Cosmo, 208Kw @ 6500rpm. Torque 400Nm @ 3500rpm. 0-100 km/h in 6.2 sec. 1/4 mile in 14.1 sec

this is in stock form and not at that higher revs either!

I never said they don't have torque, but using the example of a 20b to defend the "rotors have no torque" argument is a little miss guided given that the 20b is half the motor capacity again and has a reputation for v8 type torque.

Quickest rotor i ever went in was a s4 capella converted to 12a turbo (I'm ex-mazda car club) and it pulled harder than anything v8 i've ever driven.

Remarkable little engines. I look forward to your buggy taking shape dude

yeah BigSteve, i wasn't refering to you, but hell, why not use a 20b to shut people up who are ill-informed when it comes to rotas, besides that, i did put the modest 13b turbo figures first.
My previous rx4 was putting out over 200kw at the wheels and about 190lbs/ft on the dyno, 13b turbo.

i'm looking forward to getting the buggy done too, show the "v8 only" guys a thing or 2.

Chris

Ever watch the vic sports sedans? There is a s1 rx7 running a 20b that my engine builder built from scratch, they are insane to watch.

Hmmmmm

Mid mounted 20b in a buggy could work

A bit long and too expensive for what i want and they are still having teething problems with the eccentric shafts breaking.
i've recently seen some good footage of a 20B in a race ski boat (bridge to bride style)

ok turbo rotors have torque well done... but the rotor to be used is a 13b right... thats not turbo. so do you have any figues for non turbo rotors? turbos can add alot of torque.

Matt

here we go.

The RENESIS generates an estimated 250 horsepower at 8500 RPM, with a torque peak of 162 lb-ft coming at about 7500 RPM. Roughly 90% of this torque is available at 3000 RPM, however, giving the RENESIS a very flat torque curve and very linear power delivery. An approximate engine torque/power curve derived from information found at a European website is attached below.
Compared to the twin-turbo 13B in the third-generation RX-7s, the new RENESIS engine has a large number of improvements. One of the largest changes, besides the lack of turbo-chargers, is a new port layout with larger exhaust ports on the side housing instead of the peripheral housing. The design and placement of these ports improves the performance of the engine by removing the overlap between the intake and exhaust phases present in earlier Mazda rotary engines. The design of these ports also improves emissions by allowing unburned hydrocarbons near the walls of the engine to be carried over into the next combustion cycle. In addition, Mazda also claims to have improved fuel efficiency about 30% at idle, and wardsautoworld.com posted at article estimating around-town mileage of about 23 MPG. This is in contrast to the 18 MPG the RX7 got from its 13B powerplant. Despite these changes and having no turbo-chargers, Mazda estimates, as stated above, that the RENESIS will generate a peak of 250 HP, as much as the twin-turbocharged 13B in the third generation RX-7.




That'll do for my buggy!

and with programable fuel injection, we can play with where the power / torque comes in.

that looks great! it has a torque curve like a bowles lawn!

but is 220 nm enough?

Matt

p.s. we realy should stop hijacking this thread

twinnie wrote:that looks great! it has a torque curve like a bowles lawn!

but is 220 nm enough?

Matt

p.s. we realy should stop hijacking this thread

220nm is heaps, especially with low gearing. I'm sure its more torque than the V6 in my hilux.

nah, he's even changed the thread title to accomodate.

here's some more:

3b. Won't the lack of engine torque be a problem?

In general, no - engine torque numbers are misleading if you don't take into account gearing. The torque number you're looking at is estimated engine torque. What is actually important for performance is wheel torque, and this is highly dependent upon gearing. High-revving engines like the Renesis may have low torque at the crankshaft, but that doesn't mean they will necessarily have low torque at the wheels. In the end, it's torque at the wheels that counts. For more information on torque, horsepower, gearing, and how these relate to overall performance, visit this website.
http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html

Chris

twinnie wrote:
p.s. we realy should stop hijacking this thread

Nahhh any talk of rotisseries is good tech

that's what i reckon

here's my inspiration.

http://www.yawpower.com/oct2004.html

roc70y wrote:that's what i reckon

here's my inspiration.

http://www.yawpower.com/oct2004.html

very ....is that one of those debendear (or whatever the fark they're called) 2 sp powerglide auto's behind it?

antt wrote:

roc70y wrote:that's what i reckon

here's my inspiration.

http://www.yawpower.com/oct2004.html

very ....is that one of those debendear (or whatever the fark they're called) 2 sp powerglide auto's behind it?

yep, about $7000 out here i think?


p.s. i wont be getting one of those.

mmmmmmmmmm rotor power just love it still thinking of what to put in my buggy

ide rather put a wipper snipper in a car than a rotory lol i just dont like them but i still think its a good idea to put one infront of an auto if you can get the power in the range you need

zukin4life wrote:ide rather put a wipper snipper ina car than a rotory lol i just dont like them but i still think its a good idea to put on behine an auto if you can get the power in the range u need

How about you focus on finishing year 9 then maybe you can start talking motors...



but if your refering to a wipersnipper motor for a RC car then thats okay.


V8zuki rotories would be a good motor for the buggy. any info on your build up?

zukin4life wrote:ide rather put a wipper snipper ina car than a rotory lol i just dont like them

Famous v8 drivers words after being beaten by a quick rotor at the lights

bigsteve wrote:

zukin4life wrote:ide rather put a wipper snipper ina car than a rotory lol i just dont like them

Famous v8 drivers words after being beaten by a quick rotor at the lights

Bathurst

bigsteve wrote:

zukin4life wrote:ide rather put a wipper snipper ina car than a rotory lol i just dont like them

Famous v8 drivers words after being beaten by a quick rotor at the lights

well yes i like v8's but ide rather have a 4 banger diesel than a v8 and rather have a v8 than a rotory lol but i still say its a good idea with the rotory just not my cup of tea lol

DeWsE wrote:

zukin4life wrote:ide rather put a wipper snipper ina car than a rotory lol i just dont like them but i still think its a good idea to put on behine an auto if you can get the power in the range u need

How about you focus on finishing year 9 then maybe you can start talking motors...



but if your refering to a wipersnipper motor for a RC car then thats okay.


V8zuki rotories would be a good motor for the buggy. any info on your build up?

hahaha arnt you miss guided lol i would be in yr 11 this year lol
any ways back to the topic lol