Outer Limits 4x4 Board

looking at getting new defender. Are they any good. I know the army ones are great. But is the general one good enough for offroading?

Are they uncomfortable etc?

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I wouldnt touch one, for the price they are the most unreliable poorly built 4x4 on or off the road!

My old man just wrote off his 99 Extreme.

I can say that they are unique

My personal choice is the 110 Extreme, ABS, ETC, AC, Alloy, etc, which I think offers good value.

But note this;

1. They are rough - but they do handle well on & off road
2. They can be unconfortable - esp. if you are taller than 6 ft
3. They are British & LR - ie. have quirks - key on wrong side, shit electrics
4. They are far from 'spirited' in power!:) But not too bad

However, they are damn good off road and have amazing ground clearance, angles & travel.

But they are low geared, and that makes them annoying in the city due to lots of gear changing and a very heavy clutch.

But I love the look of them, and that's why B105s Jamie Durie has one - for the tough look.

They cop a lot of flack about reliability, but we did 180 000 kms including trips to the Simpson over our 4 years of ownership, and the only problem we had was the common falt in S1 110 Td5s, the oil in the computer error.

Other than that it leaked water from somewhere (:D??), the standard radio had electrical falts & the lights on the bullbar always blew bulbs!

Come on aussie. But if you love Nissans or Mitsubishi's you'll hate Defenders! And Land Rovers in general!

What you see is what you get with a Defender.

Mines now done 35000 kms. Some of that has been hard.. Only warranty issues really was one leaky door seal.

its been reliable, no electrics issues..

The seats aren't flash, but OK for 12 hours in the saddle. At 6'4" I had to import a sports steering wheel though to get comfortable.

Air con isn't great. The gearbox is crunchy sometimes.

But it is the best off-roader straight off the showroom floor. And there heaps of aftermarket bits.

Hire one for a weekend. For all its quirks, it is a fun vehicle.

Regards
Max P

Apart from all of the things mentioned, they are an awesome 4b.

Wanna buy mine? 2003 Xtreme with 34 000klms. BFG ATs with 7000klms. Still under warranty and a lot cheaper than a newbie.

Micka

Love mine. excellent fuel economy, never had an electrical problem, actualy never had any problems. ive always kepted it serviced, oil changed regulary, greased bits greased. i love it and wouldnt ever want anything else.

if thats a troopy your got now, the defender is the same style but heaps better in nearly every way. Im not after a race car, it does 110 comfortably with power to overtake. i just want it to go everywhere im not in a hurry!

Drew

[quote="phippsey"]My old man just wrote off his 99 Extreme.

I can say that they are unique

My personal choice is the 110 Extreme, ABS, ETC, AC, Alloy, etc, which I think offers good value.

But note this;

1. They are rough - but they do handle well on & off road
2. They can be unconfortable - esp. if you are taller than 6 ft
3. They are British & LR - ie. have quirks - key on wrong side, shit electrics
4. They are far from 'spirited' in power!:) But not too bad


Sounds like my troopie!

Im looking at leasing a new one. Hows the suspension in terms of travel etc? I am used to leaf springs al round.

Has anyone got a nine seater one? How are the back seats?

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Im looking at leasing a new one. Hows the suspension in terms of travel etc? I am used to leaf springs al round.

Has anyone got a nine seater one? How are the back seats?

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I don't think they come as a nine seater in Oz. If you convert it, you'll be up for extra rego & inspections, al least thats the case in NSW I believe.

Back Seat? - nicked from an old school bus when no-one was looking. Taller people find mine a shocker, but those vertically challenged seem to find it OK.

Regards
Max P

Suspension travel is good, although I have found my softer disco ones seam to go just keep on going!

The Extreme really handles quite well considering, and at $42k (or whatever) they're not that bad value.

What a troopie, $58000 for a Turbo, plus on road and that's stock!

yep they come as a nine seater, extra 900 bucks for the rear seats and compliance plates through landrover. my old mans is a 9 seater. seats a ok, not great for adults/ great for kids. there run sidways like in a troopy.

off road the defender will walk allover your current troopy. defenders have the longest wheel travel out of any other production 4wd. more then nissans and yota's. they also have the lowest gearing. it would feel like riding in a limo compared to leafs allround.

drew

oh buy the way, all european cars have the key on the left side and there is more of them then us. Maybe were the odd ones out!.

Does it realy matter that the key hole is 3 inches further away to what we are used to? doesnt worry me. It gives me the shits when i get in a car now when the key isnt on the left hand side.

Drew

I do like the option where you can't force the key to 'start' once it has been started. Clever there, not that you could miss that the motor is on!

But it's good to make sure you turn it off without turning it the wrong way!

That's the sort of thinking Rover's good at.

Just not to easy things like being able to roll the window down

Don't get me wrong, Drew, old mate.

I love my fender too. But for the price that LR charge for them, they should be so much more than what they are.

The shape is awesome. The driveability on and off road is great. And I would choose one again anyday over a troopie. But in all fairness, LR are having a bit of a lend with the pricetag compared with what you actually get.

Oh...and the thing I love most - Getting the wave from other fender benders.

Mate do yourself a favour and get a Jap truck. I am selling my Fender soon....they are uncomfortable, unreliable, expensive to maintain, poorly constructed, lacking on structural strenght and drive train strength and overpriced.

Or maybe you wanna buy mine off me ROFL

your right Mick, they are prety highly priced. if rover could sell more of them here the prices would come down greatly. even if they sold more fleet then i could get a huge discount with my ABN, but so far only get a discount on yotas and nissans

sorry, im very defender biased. got 4 of them in the family.

drew.

The main reason for the high price is Defenders must be built mostly by hand because of the bolt-together construction. But I wouldn't want them any other way.

The price of an extreme is a bargin, if you brought a similar spec one in the UK it`d set back over 60K.

As for uncomfortable, if you hav`nt driven one before, drive one for a while they feel different and cramped, but once you get used to it and the seats I find them bloody great, the seats are strange, they seem uncomfortable but you can spend hour after hour in them and get out feeling better than you would coming out of a seemingly more comfortable seat in another vehicle.

If your first impressions are "what a piece of shit" buy a jap vehicle, but if you find its just a bit different and not to bad, over time it`ll grow on you and you`ll find it hard going back to the jap brigade.

I dont think reliability is a big issue, but as they are hand built to a degree they have their quirks, like leaking door seals etc, or body seals to be more correct, why in this day and age any manufacturer puts seals on the body to be damaged every time you get in and out instead of on the door is beyond me. Reliability is`nt really a problem but lack of a dealership network such as toyota has is a problem especially if dont live near one.

Drove one the other day.. 2003, extreme with all etreme bits not on it. Stock as!!!

But it had a super chip in the engine... and yeh it had some big balls. Up most hills in 5th gear.

Slightly uncomfotable.

What's with the air con bits being all over the place.. a lever here and a lever there?

Felt ok though. Bit soft on corners, but Im used to leafs all round.

The levers are for the fresh air conditioning - the vents under the windscreen.

The normal a/c conrtols are out of sight near your right knee.

If it is standard & done a few kms, the front end may be be a bit soft or saggy. New ones do that with the weight of the bullbar. Easily fixed forever when you upgrade the suspension.

Regards
Max P

Have a look at the link below as this may help you decide. I can't be doing with the poor ergonomcs and basic layout but having driven a few, they are flawless at what they are designed to do - go off road and get dirty!! My brother in law drives the 90 Extreme and if just goes anywhere.

http://www.lrfaq.org/BBC-TopGearLandRover.wmv

All the above posts spell it out like it is, The Defender is altogether the best offroad and versatile outbacktourer available, in 130" CC form.
The 110 is a fantastic tourer and work vehicle, and the 90 would have to be the best on and off road unit around for singles or no kid families.

They are not overpriced when you compare the troopcarrier to the 110 extreme.

The 130" is in a class of its own, forget F trucks etc, they don't come close.

They ARE structurally the best chassis around
They ARE strong in the drive train when compared to the recent Toyota G' box problems etc...
They DON'T break IFS control arms because they are a nice simple Live axle.
They use practically no fuel
With a 145KW and 450Nm upgrade chip ($900) they will STILL not use much fuel and eat Cruisers on hills...
And if you are upset by dodgy build quality and poor sealing etc, then by all means go Japanese, and fall asleep with boredom while driving.
I have a Jap diesel in my RRclassic, and I have a Lexus LS400 for a daily driver (When I can get to the keys before the wfe does) The Japs know how to make quality at a good price. Their fourwheel drives just don't interest me like the Solihull product, they haven't got any 'Character' at all.

Buy yourself a Japanese luxury rocketship, AND a Defender or Rangie for the serious weekend fun.

JC

and another thing..

Defenders will claim every pair of trousers you've got. That door lock catchs the belt loop sooner or later!

Did in another pair of suit trousers this morning

Regards
Max P

Maxtd5def wrote:and another thing..

Did in another pair of suit trousers this morning

Max,

Yeah but dont ya just love turning up to a business meeting in a mud splattered Defender and parking next to all them Mercs and Beemers and jumping out in ya suit


Regards Glen.

seqfisho wrote:

Maxtd5def wrote:and another thing..

Did in another pair of suit trousers this morning

Max,

Yeah but dont ya just love turning up to a business meeting in a mud splattered Defender and parking next to all them Mercs and Beemers and jumping out in ya suit


Regards Glen.

Absolutely, I love parking the rangie covered in mud next to the "flash" cars on Park road for a Monday morning meeting

Tom

I think valet parking at an international hotel in a filthy RR or Defender would be a hoot. Must try it one day.

What are the prices like for repairs and servicing? Are they standard for just running costs?

Rev Rev,
I service a lot of Td5 Defenders and Discos, and they are roughly Twice the price of Tdi's to oil change if you replace filters each time.

I mention this as I recommend changing oil and BOTH rotor and spin on filters on a Td5 at 10,000km intervals. (LR say 20,000!! With our rubbish fuels, no way!)
Using 5w50 synthetic oil and genuine filters, that adds up to about $130.00 OF PARTS ALONE

A Tdi on the other hand, 7 litres of quality mineral based oil and 1 $19 genuine filter comes to around $61.00.

(These are all retail prices, if you buy bulk oils, then expect a substantial difference..)

If you enhance the power output in either with a chip or boost/ fuelling upgrades, then you need to change oil more often.

PM me for further discussions...

Either is a fantastic vehicle, just enjoy.

JC

justinC wrote:If you enhance the power output in either with a chip or boost/ fuelling upgrades, then you need to change oil more often.

Hi Justin

Interested to hear that you suggest more regular oil and filter changes when a chip upgrade is installed. I just had a remapped Bruce Davis ECU fitted to me S2 TD5 Disco - what intervals would you suggest for oil and filter changes - I normally get it serviced at the Land Rover dealer every 10,000klms?

Appreciate your help and input. Also, anything else I should be aware of with the ECU upgrade?