Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I am bored.

With all the track closures in NSW, track damage, and bullshit around on 4wds in general, are Bigger tires really *BETTER*, or are 36's+ really necessary? I am only really expecting wanker answers, but would think its something some people would discuss seriously.

EG. 5-7 yrs ago, 33's were BIG... with some comp people running 35s etc.

One of the main reasons tracks are closing is due to track damage, erosion, and since 4wds are the main users of these tracks, we are seen to be the main cause of track damage.. Not lookin to point fingers, its just something that me and a few blokes were discussing the other night around bbq and beers.

Since the tracks are mainly used for Fire Trails and driven by shitbox Isuzu 9tonner with large amounts of top weight (speaking from experience), and parks people in Cruiser utes with slipon tanks weighing heaps of tons with 31's, mums and dads in their new 4bs with no recovery gear and no idea, if everyone was still running smaller tires, EG 31/33's would that be a better thing for us? Would it slow down the closing of tracks due to damage? It's more of a challenge on smaller tires to do same tracks than it is on 44's that find it hard to find an obsticle! Or would people just keep the slipper into it for longer when they realise they have no chance of passing the obsticle safely.

EG.. Those 5-7 years ago, nobody really complained about track damage, and the damage was nothing to the levels you see some tracks wearing now. This is partly caused by tracks closing, and then more cars using these few remaining tracks.

Vicrange now has sections door/roof deep, these sections were originally (as I was told while walking the areas waiting for parts) just a diversion to get around that big arse tree that fell that you can see just off the track! It used to go straight through.. but now its roof deep.

Are there just more wankers out there that dont give a fuck causing damage, and when they realise they are stuck, just keep the slipper into it than there used to be?

Would we be seen to be less of an issue in the bush if tracks were less of an issue?

I realise that there are other groups out there doing damage too, bikes, orses, deadly bullbar damaging pedistrians etc.. but the way NSW is now with only a few areas left to wheel, it would suck arse to have everywhere else turn the same way..

there are also a lot more people out wheeling now. Hardcore tyres are easier to obtain and also cheaper than they used to be.

You see quite a few people with Simex's and no lockers, they need wheel speed to get by obsticles as they (without lockers) do not have sufficient traction a lot of the time.

Would also be worth looking at the funding that the parks get to maintain the tracks now compared with 5 or so years ago.

bogged wrote:Are there just more wankers out there that dont give a ***** causing damage, and when they realise they are stuck, just keep the slipper into it than there used to be?

Simple answer... yep.

But not that many areas get closed because of track damage.
This may be a reason that they add on to justify the closure but more often than not it is because the Government are bending over backwards for the greens.
This (Vic) Government did a deal with the greens to ensure that they got in and now they're trying to make good to them. That is why we have VEAC and loosing a large chunk of the Otways to National Parks.

But your right that 45 years ago when I start wheeling the 33's looked huge. Now I've got 35's and still many ruts are too deep. How far do you go.

The Vic Gov has got a think tank group with the greens and are looking at restricting what size tyres we can use. 31"s has been mentioned.....

I think the "more wankers" argument is pretty close to the mark - but the fact that many of them also have the larger tyres, and are digging the ruts deeper, doesn't help.

Ron Moon, in one of his columns about a year ago, made an argument about the ever spiralling size of tyres. He reasoned that if everybody stuck to a limit (33 or 35, can't remember what he suggested) then we'd reduce the ever increasing erosion and reduce the track closures we're all suffering from.

From memory, he did draw a distinction between road use and competition trucks, and was happy for competition trucks to do their thing under controlled conditions. It was the weekend warriors on 37's making tracks impassable for 31s and 33s...

If we as a community don't regulate ourselves our government will be only too happy to regulate for us.

Scott

NJ SWB wrote:If we as a community don't regulate ourselves our government will be only too happy to regulate for us.
Scott

Phuckin well put dude... If Johnnos 31's statement could come true soon, might hold off buyin new tires (Not that gov's ever move fast)

agree with the comp truck thing in controlled conditions as Ron Moon said.

From these arguments that are being put forward it would seem it is the smaller tyres causing the problem

Maybe we should all run twin lockers and 44s

Shorty40 wrote:Maybe we should all run twin lockers and 44s

That would be nice, but try and get the gov to change legislation to legalise 44s on road. Not everyone can afford a weekend truck.

Having not been into 4wding for too long, i wasn't sure how hard things were. I thought that my friends GQ with 31s was pretty big, and when we first tried to drive up vic range he lost clearance. About 2 minutes of track building later and a cut up MAV on some big arse boggers and full lightforce arsenal swithed on (2pm in the arvo) drive up behind and tells us to hurry up and get outta the way. They got out a shovel and cut the rut so that my mate could straddle it, but no good, so we backed all the trucks up and let them go on their way. Sure enough he flogs it past and showers us in clay. At the time it was "that rig is sick", but thinking about it now, he could show some respect for the tracks.

PS it wasnt cheezy, but his shop stickers were present on the truck.

GUJohnno wrote:The Vic Gov has got a think tank group with the greens and are looking at restricting what size tyres we can use. 31"s has been mentioned.....

Don't Landcruisers and Patrols have approx 32in from standard?

NJ SWB wrote:Ron Moon, in one of his columns about a year ago, made an argument about the ever spiralling size of tyres. He reasoned that if everybody stuck to a limit (33 or 35, can't remember what he suggested) then we'd reduce the ever increasing erosion and reduce the track closures we're all suffering from.

Pretty sure he said 33in.

Considering I drive a Rodeo, anything over 31in is out for me anyway without finding almost non existent gearing reductions

You guys down South just need more 4x4 parks where anything goes.

Mudzuki wrote:That would be nice,

Why would it be nice? Just asking really, trying to see why people need big tires if the tracks don't.

bogged wrote:Just asking really, trying to see why people need big tires if the tracks don't.

I've been asking this same question, not only about tyres but the majority of 'hardcore' mods as well.

It's easy to blame a lack of driving skill on a lack of mods...

Wouldn't it be more for rock crawlers? Bigger tyres allow climbing taller steps. For everything else, my massive 33s are large enough for my tastes. And I have no doubt that my Paj is currently more capable than its driver.

Scott

Utemad wrote:

GUJohnno wrote:The Vic Gov has got a think tank group with the greens and are looking at restricting what size tyres we can use. 31"s has been mentioned.....

Don't Landcruisers and Patrols have approx 32in from standard?

Exactly....

But this is what they're talking about anyhow

NJ SWB wrote:And I have no doubt that my Paj is currently more capable than its driver.Scott

You will find that between 99.999% of 4wders.

I think some people would shit hot coals if they really knew what their car was capable of

QLD has similar issues with numerous track closures. I would also think it is a liability cover-up. the easiest way to limit liability is limit what can access these areas. If someone gets hurt in a Gov controlled area, the lawyers and insureance companies could be rubbing their hands together.

Anyway.... I run the 33 swampers on my GQ. Am happy with the degree of tracks I can do comfortably for the moment with teh ground and diff clearance, and will likely continue with 33's for a while. I may get some bigger for play at the parks (LMP, etc), but that would be way off.

Many tracks that used to be run with ease with small tyres and moderate lifts in the old age extreme are now inpassable without lockers, big tyres and lifts, party due to more trafic digging deeper ruts, and some due to weather conditions and poorly maintained areas.

Trafic is increased in areas due closing areas, areas developing and more people getting into 4x4s

4wdrivers need to get serious about supporting our relevent authoritys by all joining clubs recognied by the asociations for that state, and getting on committees and getting involved and interested in the futrure of our sport.

Educating the goverment is our only chance of survival, and we are the only ones that can do that. We alway whinge that minorities win the debates, but that is only due to them the only who lobby the governments.

the other issue is the few people out there who feel like they don't need to respect others, pick up there rubish and generaly treat the bush with respect. If someone is out there on a walk and 1 in 100 4wd's they come across hoons past gives them the bird and throws an empty stubbie at them, then the 99 others are forgoten. We all must set the right example, and tell off anyone we know or see not doing the right thing. The same thing applys in the city.

People see big 4bs as young hoons cars, and this was enforced on me when some one hit my GQ when my mum was driving it....the guy that hit her jumped out and ran up yelling ...I quote...to my mum "you stupid young c***, get that oversized heap of s*** out of my way" end quote apparently when my mum got out he went red and looked the other way.....made his GF exchange all the details.

My 2c anyway

NJ SWB wrote:And I have no doubt that my Paj is currently more capable than its driver.

Scott

I couldn't agree more. I'm sure someone on my stocky GQ could drive as well as my modded GQ.

CRUSHU wrote:

NJ SWB wrote:And I have no doubt that my Paj is currently more capable than its driver.

Scott

I couldn't agree more. I'm sure someone on my stocky GQ could drive as well as my modded GQ.

I think th only person I know who would not apply to this would be Denny in the Silver Bullet

This is not just a problem over east we also have similar problems over here on the west coast. But there is a group of volunteers called Track Care which is a non-profit organization that is dedicated to preservation of existing tracks.
It is great idea, go and fix up your favourite track and get some wheelin in whilst you are there

outlandy wrote:This is not just a problem over east we also have similar problems over here on the west coast. But there is a group of volunteers called Track Care which is a non-profit organization that is dedicated to preservation of existing tracks.
It is great idea, go and fix up your favourite track and get some wheelin in whilst you are there

Some clubs in Vic have addopted tracks and look after them, but not all clubs are doing this.
My club has fixed up some huts and helped the DSE with working bees, maybe we'll look at adopting a track as well.

#Tiny wrote:4wdrivers need to get serious about supporting our relevent authoritys by all joining clubs recognied by the asociations for that state, and getting on committees and getting involved and interested in the futrure of our sport.

Couldn't agree with you more. That's why I'm now the Pres of our club and on the committee of management with FWDVic.

I love my sport and have too much money invested in my truck and camping gear to just sit back and see it all go.

Menai and the spanish steps are the same, and this will ensure land will stay open for the people who put in the effort

GUJohnno wrote:

#Tiny wrote:4wdrivers need to get serious about supporting our relevent authoritys by all joining clubs recognied by the asociations for that state, and getting on committees and getting involved and interested in the futrure of our sport.

Couldn't agree with you more. That's why I'm now the Pres of our club and on the committee of management with FWDVic.

I love my sport and have too much money invested in my truck and camping gear to just sit back and see it all go.

Thats good to see....I am treasurer of a club

GUJohnno wrote:and on the committee of management with FWDVic..

No offence, but they must do lots in the background, because they dont appear to 99.9% of humanity to be doing fuk all...

#Tiny wrote:Menai and the spanish steps are the same, and this will ensure land will stay open for the people who put in the effort

Also dont be offended Mr, but Menai will eb houses from Heathcote Road to Menai Shops within 5-8 yrs. The majority of that land would be worth Trillions.. Views over the city, over the bay....

bogged wrote:

GUJohnno wrote:and on the committee of management with FWDVic..

No offence, but they must do lots in the background, because they dont appear to 99.9% of humanity to be doing fuk all...

As volunteers giving up there own time I think that they are doing lots.
They are moving towards a pty ltd company that will have full time staff looking into the issues and raising funds.

When i went for a visit to the track down from blaxland oval this mourning, i was greated by a gate and a nice new cable fence. I know the gate has been there for ages but the fence is new to me. What pisses me off the most is that, they have put this up and put a little sign that says, UNAUTHORISED ENTRY, USE OR ACTIVITYES PROHIBITED. The sign is straight forward, no activites with out perrmission. Yet they put up a fence that allows pushbikes, motor bikes, horses and perdestrians through. All they have stopped is cars and 4WD's getting in. Why put up a fence to stop motor veichle's and allow it to let everything else in, then put up a sign saying no activites at all. Why dont they say no veichle's allowed. Why sugar coat it, tell the truth. Im thinking of writing a letter to the department of crown land to see what type of response i get, just for fun.

i wish every one made the move back to 33's. then my 40 would be considered hardcore

bad_religion_au wrote:i wish every one made the move back to 33's. then my 40 would be considered hardcore

Does that really matter?

bogged wrote:

GUJohnno wrote:and on the committee of management with FWDVic..

No offence, but they must do lots in the background, because they dont appear to 99.9% of humanity to be doing fuk all...

The organisation is run by volunteers. Why don't you spent more time doing your bit and less time on here complaining about what they aren't doing.

bogged wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:i wish every one made the move back to 33's. then my 40 would be considered hardcore

Does that really matter?

not really, but at least i wouldn't be stuck with 4 wheels off the ground due to someone else ripping it up with 44's. i didn't realise how bad it was till my brother came along on 31's, and he was getting hung up on his diffs all the time