Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i cant be bothered lookin for another forum...

How hard is it to build a buggy, and around how much would you be lookin at for a basic design n shiat

it will b as cheap and easy as u can build it

what, are you bulding it your self, are you buying a chassis?

i will say it would have been easier to build a buggy than to build up my current lux, which is not yet finished

and at the rate you are going never will be

chunderlicious wrote:i cant be bothered lookin for another forum...

How hard is it to build a buggy, and around how much would you be lookin at for a basic design n shiat

Not to be to harsh, but if you can't be bothered searching for info on build up of buggy's then you will struggle to get one started.

In saying that, you need to look at all thge different style of buggy's and decide what frame design you like. This will mean looking at all the comp threads on pirate and also checking out the OZ buggys. Once you have found the design you like you will then need to REASEARCH the design and scratch up every pic and build up pic og that certain buggy.

I have already collected 38 photos of my next buggy , and i have contacted the owner who is now sending me more pictures of nearly every stage and every angle. He has also provided me with some leasons he learnt from building his.

You then need to decide what running gear you want to use, look at things like stregnth, cost, accesability of parts and weight. Try to stick with what others are using, there is no point in using something totally different just to be cool. you will just end up pulling it out latter after you realise that it doesn't work!!

I am not sure what fabrication skills you have but most people find that the actually construction of the frame is quite easy, its getting everything to fit and then its getting everything wired in and hooked up that is the slow part.

So i suggest by SEARCHING your arse off on both here and Pirate, and then take it from there!!!

you guys have really got me thinking

just spent the last hour looking up tube buggys

don't quote me on prices,
but from memory you can get a turn-key buggy from cheezy racing for around $12k and a frame only for around $3k

Matt

just get the haultech boy's to build u one

anymore info on the turnkey buggies?
cheezy can ya elaborate?

mad_landie wrote:anymore info on the turnkey buggies?
cheezy can ya elaborate?

I have been trying to build something turnkey for $5000 labour which really is cutting it fairly tight. For us at Haultech there is about 200 hours in building something that I have built before - so this works out to be $25/hour which is very cheap and really not enough money to make it worth while but Ill do it for anybody who is keen to compete in WE Rock cause I really want to get this thing happening.

Heres some costs of something like Tonys Budgie:

Engine/gearbox/transfer (96disco) - 4000
Axles (hilux) - 750
Steel - 500
Steering - 350
Steer hoses - 200
Pedal assembly (hilux) - 100
Steering wheel - 150
Seats - 200
Harnsses - 200
suspension links (bushes all round) - 500
wheels/beadlocks/tyres - 2500
tailshafts - 200
Radiator/fans -300
radiator piping - 100
fuel tank - 300
gauges - 150
fuelpump - 150
wiring - 200
panals(aluminium) - 200
paint - 150
shocks - 320
springs and mount plates - 350
winch - 1000


Total - 12550

plus 5000 labour = 17500 and this doesent include lockers.

But this is to get something like Tonys budgie.

To get to Adrians Jeckle you need plus
Heim joints 1000
full hydro - 1500
fox air shox - 2200
and less the components that you remove.

To do things cheaper you could buy a donor car and try to use everything out of it.

Could sart with a 86 rangie with auto gearbox and carbed 3.5L v8 and power steer - for say $2000 so this would be

Rangie - $2000
Axles (hilux) - 750 (would still go for hilux axles)
Steel - 500
Steering wheel - 150 (rangie steering wheel way to big)
Seats - 200
Harnsses - 200
Links - 0 (Use rangie links all round but make the rear lowers longer and stronger)
wheels/beadlocks/tyres - 2500
Radiator fan -100
radiator piping - 100
fuel tank - 300
gauges - 150
fuelpump - 0 (rangie already got one)
wiring - 200
panals(aluminium) - 200
paint - 150
shocks - 320 (still need longer shocks)
springs and mount plates - 0 (from rangie)
winch - 1000

Total - 8820 + labour (and stillno lockers)

If you went for a cheaper rangie couls get something for $500 - (manual and power steer)

so total here would be $7320
If you used the rangie diffs then $6570 but then the axles are week and you will struggle for enough gearing

If you run a carbed 3.5l rangie v8 should really run 4.88 hilux axles. If you run a late model 3.9injected then the 4.3 or 4.1 hilux work well. If you want a bit more crown and pinion strength then toyota 60 series works very well (both Tony and myself eat Hilux crownwheels - they never have failed but we are always swapping them out cause we chip teeth)

For me Im not sure that there is a cheeper way than using a rangie or disco engine/gearbox/transfer cause they are relatively cheep and powerfull and you dont need to throw transfer gears at them cause with the V8 and stock low range of 3.3:1 they work not too bad.

We are now looking at using Comnodore V6 and T700 auto in front of a rover LT230 transfer (this is the one we are all using) This works out to be:
engine and geabox from commodore - 1000
transfer - 600
remove and replace output shaft for resplining - 400
respline output shaft - 400
auto to transfer adapter - 600

total - 3000. What this does is gets you perfect gearing (3:1 first gear and 3.3:1 transfer) and a much cheaper engine and gearbox if you do blow something up. It also should be slightly cheaper than the $4000 setups we are currently using but we havnt done this yet so it may not necessarily work out cheaper.

Well thats what I got. Anybody got any better ideas (components) for a cheap and high performing buggy??

Comments??

Sam

SAM,
I went up to the first WERock and was VERY impressed and inspired.
Have you ever looked at basing a buggy on a smaller, lighter (and cheaper) drivetrain?
Im a bit biased but if you went with Suzuki bits the costs could be lower. Have you looked at a "Tiny" sized buggy???

SAWZALL wrote:SAM,
I went up to the first WERock and was VERY impressed and inspired.
Have you ever looked at basing a buggy on a smaller, lighter (and cheaper) drivetrain?
Im a bit biased but if you went with Suzuki bits the costs could be lower. Have you looked at a "Tiny" sized buggy???

i have thought about this also,

i think the big problem is, sometimes you really need momentum to either get you up something or get you out of a situation.

ill always try to crawl stuff first, second and third time round, but if you got no traction, then you're going to need momentum.

with the suzi stuff, while great for crawling, how you going to launch with a 1.3L motor the same way you can launch with a big motor.

loose surface, tractionless terrain, the suzi just cant get the wheel speed up high enough.

having said that, i still reckon you can be competitive with a sierra drivetrain with series 3 rockhoppers. you just not going to be as versatile if the terrain turns from high traction rock to loose dirt,

planb wrote:

SAWZALL wrote:SAM,
I went up to the first WERock and was VERY impressed and inspired.
Have you ever looked at basing a buggy on a smaller, lighter (and cheaper) drivetrain?
Im a bit biased but if you went with Suzuki bits the costs could be lower. Have you looked at a "Tiny" sized buggy???

i have thought about this also,

i think the big problem is, sometimes you really need momentum to either get you up something or get you out of a situation.

ill always try to crawl stuff first, second and third time round, but if you got no traction, then you're going to need momentum.

with the suzi stuff, while great for crawling, how you going to launch with a 1.3L motor the same way you can launch with a big motor.

loose surface, tractionless terrain, the suzi just cant get the wheel speed up high enough.

having said that, i still reckon you can be competitive with a sierra drivetrain with series 3 rockhoppers. you just not going to be as versatile if the terrain turns from high traction rock to loose dirt,

Rhys,

Come watch me at Round 2

evil_hitman wrote:don't quote me on prices,
but from memory you can get a turn-key buggy from cheezy racing for around $12k and a frame only for around $3k

Matt

I believe it is more likely to be be $15k plus.
Rumoured to use lexus v8, nissan diffs, airshocks etc.

But rather than speculating, I would recommend people give him a call and show your interested.
Then he will get building them quicker and set a turnkey price

sam, i basically did the same pricing breakdown as you did (to build something like tony's budgie). the cost and build effort required (by us novices) contributed to our decision to buy rather than build. we are more keen to drive than anything, and carlton's buggy came up at the right price. we could never build anything nearly half as good for that money.

not to take anything away from the haultech buggies because i still think they are the most competitive and cost effective buggies on the circuit at the moment.

zzzz wrote:

evil_hitman wrote:don't quote me on prices,
but from memory you can get a turn-key buggy from cheezy racing for around $12k and a frame only for around $3k

Matt

I believe it is more likely to be be $15k plus.
Rumoured to use lexus v8, nissan diffs, airshocks etc.

But rather than speculating, I would recommend people give him a call and show your interested.
Then he will get building them quicker and set a turnkey price

sounds about right

SAWZALL wrote:SAM,
I went up to the first WERock and was VERY impressed and inspired.
Have you ever looked at basing a buggy on a smaller, lighter (and cheaper) drivetrain?
Im a bit biased but if you went with Suzuki bits the costs could be lower. Have you looked at a "Tiny" sized buggy???

Just because "TINY" is small in size doesn't meen it has a small powered engine! TINY is producing well over 200 HP.

But then again, variety is good. There seems to be a lot of people keen on buying/building buggy's. The way i see it is that, the more buggys getting built using small Zuk engines the better it is for ME!

Strange Rover have you looked into importing buggies from the states surely a second hand buggie over there would be cheaper then here and cheap enough to put say 4 in a large container and ship over? and arn't you racing over there any way?

Matt

I don't mean to bring up an old discussion but using a Zook as a base for the driveline and hilux diffs you can build a cheap and capable buggy. Horsepower aint everything.The AZTEC has proved to be very competitve with the same principle.
When i was planning the one make class we priced it up and could build a turn key buggy on a trailer for $15000.
SAM

So whats a zuke worth as a donner vehicle??? And then transfer gears??

You can get a rangie with an auto easily less than $2000 and if you try less than $1000 and with the hilux diffs you dont need transfer gears.

Id imagine by the time you buy a zook as a doner vehicle and also get the transfer gears its going to be more expensive. And do cheap zooks come with power steering or will you have to buy this seperate.

The way I see it a cheap rangie with auto and power steer is the cheapest way to go because you dont need transfer gears and it comes with power steering and the motor will run at any angle and its got decent torque and power. Opinions??

Sam

twinnie wrote:Strange Rover have you looked into importing buggies from the states surely a second hand buggie over there would be cheaper then here and cheap enough to put say 4 in a large container and ship over? and arn't you racing over there any way?

Matt

Probably they way to go if you want something more built than what we are capable of doing cheeply here. If you want something with D60s, coilovers and an Atlas then probably cheaper to import but Id imagine you wont get much out of $20000 - $25000.

Sam

I think the think to look at is the cost of the drivetrain - engine, gearbox, transfer and axles. If you are trying to do things on the cheap then these items dont cost much in the scheme of things. If you go rangie + hilux you could get this for less than $2000. If you just go hilux + transfer gears you will end up at a similar price (within $500). And if you go Zuke + transfer gears Im guessing you will still end up at the same cost within $500.

So basically I just think that the best performing buggy out of these is with the rangie V8 and auto with stock transfer gears. I also think that if you want to end up with power steering then the rangie will be the cheapest by far. And with the rangie setup you can do front digs.

Sam

How much would just a frame with mounting tabs cost?
approx

Bighazza wrote:How much would just a frame with mounting tabs cost?
approx

What do you mean by mounting tabs.

But around $2000.

Sam

Strange Rover wrote:

Bighazza wrote:How much would just a frame with mounting tabs cost?
approx

What do you mean buy mounting tabs.

But around $2000.

Sam

I saw RUFF talking about mounting tabs and would assume they would be seats, engine etc

Bighazza wrote:

Strange Rover wrote:

Bighazza wrote:How much would just a frame with mounting tabs cost?
approx

What do you mean buy mounting tabs.

But around $2000.

Sam

I saw RUFF talking about mounting tabs and would assume they would be seats, engine etc

Probably easier if you gave us the stuff you wanted mounting tabs for and we just mount it up and leave it bolted in. That way it saves me from pulling the stuff out.

When i build these things everything only goes in once and it gets welded in in place and I dont pull everything apart to do the final welding or paint.

Im thinking to mount everything up we would be getting closer to the $4000 labour. Depends what we leave out from a turn key buggy.

Sam

From what sam has post here I would have to agree with him that out of those combs the rangie shit would make the best buggie for around the same $$$

I know it would cost more but if I was building one I would use toy V8 and GXL auto and t case, why? Because I farking hate rangies with a passion man they can`t even put the shifters in the wright place and lets not get started on the blinkers and on top of that my mum is a 100% pomm and I hate my mum lots.

Holy shit

If this thread doesn't encourage more people to get a buggy, nothing will

Good stuff Sam and Sam (and any other Sams that may be building buggies for the masses )

Guts wrote:From what sam has post here I would have to agree with him that out of those combs the rangie shit would make the best buggie for around the same $$$

I know it would cost more but if I was building one I would use toy V8 and GXL auto and t case, why? Because I farking hate rangies with a passion man they can`t even put the shifters in the wright place and lets not get started on the blinkers and on top of that my mum is a 100% pomm and I hate my mum lots.

holy shit thats a but RUFF

i think the commodore engine/box is a good option. the only issue being that the length and width of the 700 becomes a bit of a design constraint.

a while ago i bought for $500:
good commo engine with all ancillaries & loom/computer. came with new extractors & exhaust,
good t700 with shifter,
pedal assemblys and master cylinder/booster,
steering column,
radiator & fan,
probably more stuff i can't remember, i just grabbed everything i thought would be useful.

canberra is quite expensive for used car parts too, i am sure you could get this stuff much cheaper elsewhere, it becomes a pretty cheap drivetrain.