Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi,
I am wondering what the reliablity issues are with running a propane injection system. They seem to create more power but if they are so reliable, why do you need a switch to turn them off, why not leave them running all of the time? Surely if they are making more power more efficiently then you would leave them running. You don't turn your turbo off when your going down hills!!

i wasnt aware you could turn your turbo off at all

Have a look at www.bullydog.com It's a US site with some good info.

i wasnt aware you could turn your turbo off at all

Good point but my question was has anyone run one consistantly with no reliablity issues, why do they have an off switch?

LPG is a consumeable.....there is no need to burn LPG while you're sitting at the lights in traffic in your daily driver / weekend warrior......so why waste it when you can just turn the system off??

With the ProShot kits that use a conventional BBQ bottle, I'm not sure you would get many miles from a 9kg bottle before you have to refill??

It would be easy to rig up though just use an LPG cut off valve in conjuntion with a boost switch so that the gas is only flowing when the engine is on boost.

Paul

BOB_1,

Remember when you look at the info on USA sites, that propane and LPG are not the same thing.

LPG is stored in liquid form. AFAIK propane is still gaseous at the stored pressure. This can make a difference to the injection equipment used.

The main reasons for switching it off are

Some injection equipment does not regulate the quantity added very well and the amount needed when idling is much less than that need at full load.

If the LPG tank size is relatively small, save it until you need more power.

Bush65 wrote:BOB_1,

Remember when you look at the info on USA sites, that propane and LPG are not the same thing.

LPG is stored in liquid form. AFAIK propane is still gaseous at the stored pressure. This can make a difference to the injection equipment used.

The main reasons for switching it off are

Some injection equipment does not regulate the quantity added very well and the amount needed when idling is much less than that need at full load.

If the LPG tank size is relatively small, save it until you need more power.

LPG is liquid propane gas

its what happens to Propane Gas when you compress it, there would be no efficient way of storing propane unless it was under pressure (read LPG)

Bush65 wrote:BOB_1,

Remember when you look at the info on USA sites, that propane and LPG are not the same thing.

LPG is stored in liquid form. AFAIK propane is still gaseous at the stored pressure. This can make a difference to the injection equipment used.

The main reasons for switching it off are

Some injection equipment does not regulate the quantity added very well and the amount needed when idling is much less than that need at full load.

If the LPG tank size is relatively small, save it until you need more power.

LPG is a blend of Propane and Butane (and possibly a few other impurities). Propane is only propane. Both are usually stored in liquid form (under pressure)

from what i read, it makes for a very dirty exhaust, hence only use it when you need the powa of it.

we are about to try a trail of this on our isuzu 400 it will be interesting to see how it goes

muduppig wrote:we are about to try a trail of this on our isuzu 400 it will be interesting to see how it goes

Have one Powershot-kit on my truck. Have a 9KG BBQ bottle, but you can have bigger tank if you want to. Propane improves combustion and less smoke, cleaner exhaust.

You feel it is more responsive to trottle input, will rev faster. It is recommended to have a bigger exhaust due to better combustion, more exhaustgas.

I don't know a lot about it but couldn't you just set it up like nos? have a switch to arm it and then a switch or sensor on your throttle which opens the solenoid at full throttle?
Some tractor pullers and high boost diesels run nos to reduce smoke also...

Shadow wrote:

Bush65 wrote:BOB_1,

Remember when you look at the info on USA sites, that propane and LPG are not the same thing.

LPG is stored in liquid form. AFAIK propane is still gaseous at the stored pressure. This can make a difference to the injection equipment used.

The main reasons for switching it off are

Some injection equipment does not regulate the quantity added very well and the amount needed when idling is much less than that need at full load.

If the LPG tank size is relatively small, save it until you need more power.

LPG is liquid propane gas

its what happens to Propane Gas when you compress it, there would be no efficient way of storing propane unless it was under pressure (read LPG)

It is my understanding that in Australia, LPG is liquid petroleum gas, not liquid propane. Ben is correct about LPG being a blend of butane and propane.

If propane is compressed to liquid, then it is in liquid form - I don't disagree with that.

What I found when researching USA propane injection systems, was that in the USA they do store propane in the gaseous form, not liquid. That is not to say that you can't get it in liquid form. Kits that I looked at did not have convertors to convert from liquid to gas, before injection.

Does anyone know where you can get these kits from in OZ and how much they cost. I haven't heard too much about them but I'm very interested in the concept.

vn15 wrote:

muduppig wrote:we are about to try a trail of this on our isuzu 400 it will be interesting to see how it goes

Have one Powershot-kit on my truck. Have a 9KG BBQ bottle, but you can have bigger tank if you want to. Propane improves combustion and less smoke, cleaner exhaust.

You feel it is more responsive to trottle input, will rev faster. It is recommended to have a bigger exhaust due to better combustion, more exhaustgas.

i maybe wrong but this system will run all the time time but will use more of the gas when the foot goes down i know about the reving faster part of it and that i will not not have to put my foot down so much to get it to go at the moment we are doing three weeks of log the diesel usage then it will be fitted and another three weeks loging usage to klms to see how to compare have to wait and see

Is the basic principle in a diesel, that the LPG makes the diesel burn far more efficiently ?

Something closer to 100% burn as opposed to like 75% - I made those figures up, but is the principle correct ?

toughnut wrote:Does anyone know where you can get these kits from in OZ and how much they cost. I haven't heard too much about them but I'm very interested in the concept.

I live as far from US as you do and for me , it was no problems to order the kit directly from dieselperformance products. Paid around 650 USD with freight inkluded.

The kit has on/off switch and reset switch. Propaneflow is adjustable. The boostlevel, where you want the gas to start flowing is also adjustable.

It is from 2-8 psi, I have mine set at 2 psi.

Just some photos of the Powershot-kit

Where do you have the gas run into the motor? Through the air intake system? If so do you put it before or after the turbo?

The way I see it is that it works the same as if you clean your foam air filter with petrol and then put it back in and start the engine

There was an article about this in one of the 4by mags last year. If I remember correctly it was as an aside to an article about ethanol fuel blends.

From memory it provides a boost effect and improves combustion. Downside is throttle overrun - when you back off there is a delay before the revs drop coz the air in the manifold is charged with gas.

Think it was 4x4 Australia

Mick_n_Sal wrote:There was an article about this in one of the 4by mags last year. If I remember correctly it was as an aside to an article about ethanol fuel blends.

From memory it provides a boost effect and improves combustion. Downside is throttle overrun - when you back off there is a delay before the revs drop coz the air in the manifold is charged with gas.

Think it was 4x4 Australia

if thats the only downsyde, why doesn't heaps of people have it? it sounds bloody awesome to me. (except for being a bit hard on the engine)

Still hoping someone knows of where to get a kit here in OZ. I'd like to have a look at a kit before I buy it.

The article read as if it was used like NOS - for some extra neddies when you need them - hillclimbs & mudruns I'd guess.

I'd be surprised if there is a lot of info on this from the states - diesel engined vehicles aren't big sellers over there

Ask Drafty on this board or ring up on track 4wd, they ran gas injection in their comp ute last time i checked

TUFFRANGIE wrote:Ask Drafty on this board or ring up on track 4wd, they ran gas injection in their comp ute last time i checked

Don't think so as there comp ute is petrol

from what ive been told running LPG on a deisel increases burn rate to approx 90-95% . oil stays cleaner and less residue and crap outta exhaust

TOUGHNUT tap the LPG in before the turbo as its a cold gas it helps keep the turbo cooler so u can run more boost

http://www.gasresearchpc.com.au/html/ga ... mance.html

this mite help



LPG SYSTEM and ENGINE BUILD RECOMMENDATIONS

COMPRESSION RATIOS: Excessively high compression ratios only lead to detonation problems and optimum ignition timings will never be realized. Compression ratios are directly related to cam choice. I.e. the “biggerâ€

toughnut wrote:Where do you have the gas run into the motor? Through the air intake system? If so do you put it before or after the turbo?

Put it before the turbo, 8-10 inches before the compressorwheel. Have no problem with trottle overrun.