Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys

1) im i need new tyres and want to put bigger meats on the old girl.

currrently its still stock size 205/60/15 ? i think.
and i want to put some bigger a/t tyres with some aggressive tread
like 225 to 235/75/15.

from my reaserch ive found that good all terrain tyres are quite expensive and because i do a fair amount of road work mud terrain are out of the question.
can anyone tell me any brands and prices of some good all terrain tyres.

2) secondly if im running bigger tyres i realise i will need some lift.
ive got a 1991 swb vitara soft top and i wondered wether 2' lift will be enough and because im only a student and am on a budget i was wondering wether you guys could give me any of your ideas an prices of what they cost.

thank heaps guys
cheers tim

MY SIERRA INFO IS USELESS BAHAHAHAHA

if your on a limited budget for tyres then your best bet would be some motoway retread muddies on a second set of rims. 235/75r15 will fit snuggly on standard vitara rims which should be easy to come by. swap to muddies from your road tyres when you plan to head bush. that way you wont be doing much driving on them but will have tyres far more effective then all terains for offroad work. and nice quiet road tyres for road work.

the 1st set of tyres i put on my vit were 235/75R15 on stock vit rims. scrubbed a tiny bit on the frame at full lock, but was ok after 50% were gone. i ran these with no lift, and seem to be no problems.

king springs lifted 30mm coils are cheap. look around for alternatives, like some 5 door vit coils, GV coils, or even coil spacers.
i'm also a student, and my lift is roughly equivilant to about 4 ctns of bundy cans.



the Coopers range is pretty good. i know a few people who run these tyres. good all rounder, and pretty tough too. not sure on the price though. but can be bit pricey.

have a look here: http://www.coopertires.com.au/tyres/index.htm

or if you can, just get some motorway muddies for cheap. and run them. will be cheaper, and will definately look the part.

muppet_man67 has a good point. look into two sets of rims.


good luck, and have fun.
Steve

thanx guys
how much would a set of motorway retread muddies be worth?

how difficult would it be to install a set of gv coils or coil spacers if i got some from a wreckers and how much would the gv coils lift it?

and would it be stupid to replace the shocks if there still workin alright, and are there any shocks that will fit and give some extra articulation.

cheers tim

4 door v6 GV coils will give too much lift on a 2 SWB Vit. We tried it once and even with the strut mount flipped and OME struts it would sit at the downtravel limit.

probably best is to get some coil spacers. 15mm for front using original coils, and flipping strut top mount, and 30mm for rear with original coils.

you can replace the rear shocks with some (MX60) toyota cressida shocks, which are heaps longer than the original ones.

the above should give about 1" of lift, and will suit the 235/75's pretty good, and add some extra articulation to the rear.

there are a few other options too, but just to keep you on the safe and legal side, these are best not mentioned.

how much would a set of 235/75/R15 motorway muddies cost?


and how much would a set of 15-30mm coil spacers cost

cheers tim

people how much are a set of 4 235/75/15 motorway mud tyres?

cheers tim

offroad_always wrote:people how much are a set of 4 235/75/15 motorway mud tyres?

cheers tim

i have no idea bro. i live in darwin, and we always get slapped for prices here.

cant you just call up some motorway dealer and ask them? heaps easier.

GONZO's selling some 1" body lift blocks for a vitara. have a look in for sale section.

would be ideal for 30" tyres on a vit.

1" coil spacers, and 1" bodylift, and you'll be set.

Coil spacers and body lift would be good in that it would leave original ride. SWB Softops are very sensitive to such things as I learnt.

You'll need much longer than stock shocks in the rear.

For just coil spacers the MX62 cressida shocks will be too long. Remember they're something like 16cm longer than stock - not good for only a 2.5 cm lift since your spring and coil spacer will fall out.

However you can easily get at least 2" more out of the rear suspension without risk of anything coming adrift, so you should be aiming at something like 550mm long approx. Some landcruiser fronts (BJ73) are 553mm but need rebushing and are too stiff.

Even another 2"-3" of rear flex will make a big difference offroad.

Pin and eye start looking at your local supercheap in the gabriel manual - as a starting point some HQ shocks have this pattern and are 520mm long. That was my first starting point which lasted only a very short time (as in days) before I went the cressida ones anyway

The flex from these is always mega impressive so long as the spring doesnt fall out like it did to me posing at Narangba one day

Wire is your friend, but without enough lift remember that fully compressed lenght has changed too. The Cressidas are like 8cm longer on full compression and as such without lift would be coppping a bashing at full compression.

You'll probably find other jap stuff like celicas and coronas end up using same arrangement, just a case of finding the right one for your application. Make sure the fully compressed length is no more than what your lift is and your extended is about twice what your lift is (that's how it works with these) and you'll be fine.

Or of course you can buy some proper Dobinsons or similar for about $90 a shock. Less experimentation and a "non-learning" experience.

cheers for the info beast mavster.
im thinking of buying a set of 2' raised springs all round and 30mm spacers at the front and 15mm at the back he wants $275 for that, is that a good price.

will that give enough lift to use the cresida shocks at the rear. is there any point in changing the front shocks of struts, for that i would have to buy some aftermarket ones wouldn't i.

cheers tim.

Buy Gonzos struts.

offroad_always wrote:cheers for the info beast mavster.
im thinking of buying a set of 2' raised springs all round and 30mm spacers at the front and 15mm at the back he wants $275 for that, is that a good price.

will that give enough lift to use the cresida shocks at the rear. is there any point in changing the front shocks of struts, for that i would have to buy some aftermarket ones wouldn't i.

cheers tim.

Hope you mean 2" and not 2'... it's only 20" difference

Anything much over 2" lift will start breaking front cv's like crazy and is not recommended unless you have done major modifications to your whole front end geometry (eg calmini lower a arms or better).

You dont have to believe me but when it breaks remember to come back and tell me i'm right

If you want to verify this with someone like antt or GV_QLD who have gone through repeatedly this go right ahead. There are other engineering solutions (better quality CV's off something else) but they're gonna cost you $$$.

About 60-70mm lift (eg OME + coil spacers) is plausible, so long as the downward travel of the front strut is limited to about 40mm extra. Otherwise the strut top flip is about 30mm which is safe (I never busted a CV nor has my Viagra's new owner either).

In otherwords you'll gain 60-70mm height but only compensate with about 40-50mm travel max, losing 20mm travel. Not the end of the world, and beats constantly breaking cv's and getting hung up on stuff.

Price of IFS extra suspension lift beyond about 40mm costs travel.

Remember due to the pivot point location for a-arms you'll basically double the lift the coil spacer does at the front. I couldnt even fit a 30mm coil spacer in my vitara SWB front (despite previously having had +50mm Kings Springs). I had to shave it down to fit.

I'd go a 15mm coil spacer front, 30mm coil spacer rear (thats the sizes normally sold) if you're on a budget (should be like $120 for spacers).Or if your ship/drug deal came in an OME ($1400)/Dobinsons($700) spring lift, and go for body lift from there (if/when you want to get wilder).

The coil spacers alone should easily clear 235/75/15 (29") rubber (but you'd need slightly more lift for 30"s). Stock size is 205/70/15 or 26".

235's will give you about 2" more clearance in all ( about 1 1/2" under rear diff and 3" under body and front diff), reducing damage and meaning you can clear 25% bigger obstacles. Thats quite a radical improvement and will put your "hairdresser" Vitara on a level footing with stuff like (stock) Patrols, Landcruisers and Rangies offroad.

Do this on the cheap, and then work out how much further you want to go after you've had some fun.... start saving for the next mods.

There should be some secondhand 30"s or 235's around somewhere - people tend to want biggers stuff quick once they're hooked

Check with your local suzuki 4wd club.

as Beastmavster has said, i have (or had) 2inch old man emu lift springs, with 10mm spacers and a 50mm strut spacer. nearly everytime i went offroad with this setup i would break a cv cause it was over extending them. now that i've taken the strut spacer out, its been fine

my complete ome lift will be up for sale in june if u can wait that long

GV_Qld wrote:4 door v6 GV coils will give too much lift on a 2 SWB Vit. We tried it once and even with the strut mount flipped and OME struts it would sit at the downtravel limit.

do you have a measurement of how long they were when sitting in the car? and also the height out of the car without weight on them???

the springs are 2" king springs which he said were pretty stiff but he said they had settled to about 1.5" there abouts. antt what set up have you got and how much will you be selling it for?

so seen the springs have settled a bit even with the spacers it will only be about 2" lift max and at the moment i dont think im going to upgrade the struts (due to money or lack there of) yet so if i understood what you said i wont need to worry about breaking cv's because i dont have to much lift and there wont be to much travel to put stress on the front end.

if i do break a cv out on the track what sort of limp home fixes can i perform to get back?

cheers tim

mine is the old man emu 2 inch lift kit, which includes the springs, longer struts, and the toyota cressida spec shocks for the back to get the max travel outta the back end

if ya break a cv out on the track, you can just unlock the hubs and put it in 2wd and its fine to drive on the road, wont hurt anything. dont leave the broken cv in there though once you get home, as i found out, if the pieces sit in the wrong spot within the cv boot, it can bind up your steering making it very difficult to turn

how much will you be selling you kit for antt.

This lift worked ok !

Hey Dick,

can you post the details of that lift? how much suspension lift? and what was used and installed?

is there body lift too? how much, and how tall? was it done with proper lift blocks as a kit?

how does it flex? does it feel tippy on/off road? is the front sway bar still attached?

looks pretty cool. and are they also 16" rims?

thanks

Dont think dick has had a chance to use it in anger yet. Setup is some used 29" muddies (on 16" rims), + custom Allspring springs lift + bodylift. Dunno exact specs here.

Dick is moving to townsville and as such may be flogging this off to avoid transporting 3 cars and a motorbike.

Beastmavster wrote:Dont think dick has had a chance to use it in anger yet. Setup is some used 29" muddies (on 16" rims), + custom Allspring springs lift + bodylift. Dunno exact specs here.

Dick is moving to townsville and as such may be flogging this off to avoid transporting 3 cars and a motorbike.

No not extreme but I have had a few small runs and it performs well !
Beastman got it nearly all right ! approx 3" spring lift and 2" body. The allsprings have a good rate, although I did chop 1 coil out of fronts. The body lift blocks are nylon, with steels stud inserts that wind up on each stud and allow a bolt in from underneath. Good strong set up. Sway bay still on for road use and unusually it handles really well !! I was surprised.. not tippy at all. I have old commodore shocks in the rear (630mm long) and have fitted a spacer on the A arm to allow the rear axle to flex. Works good. OME struts up front, I did have the mounts flipped also but had to return them to std as the Cv's bound up when max droop. I need to drop the front diff down first then flip the mounts. Ran out time since I goin North very soon, not quite Townsville - Rocky and its 4 cars and a bike for the record !!

it looks nice dick.
the one thing im puzzled abouts that you said its not very tippy. even my stocker gets a bit of body roll around the round abouts and because now yours has such a high center of gravity you would think it would be alot worse.

any way i have decided to buy the king springs and coil spacers off gonzo. its gonna be funny watching me install them because i have no idea.

offroad_always wrote:it looks nice dick.
the one thing im puzzled abouts that you said its not very tippy. even my stocker gets a bit of body roll around the round abouts and because now yours has such a high center of gravity you would think it would be alot worse.

any way i have decided to buy the king springs and coil spacers off gonzo. its gonna be funny watching me install them because i have no idea.

I got the vehicle stock and yep it rolled around and was sagged, now with the lift its considerably better around corners. (no doubt due to the better rate springs) I dont go any slower, actually a bit harder now.. All is fine even with old muddies on..
You will be fine, take your time and post for help !
Backs are easy as, drivers side front is a bit tricky with very long springs but at least you can drop the lower ball joint away and it easy ! Later Vits dont have a bolted in ball joint. Use two jacks (after safely putting a stand under chassis rail) one under the front arm arm where coil seat is and the disc hub. The outer jack is just for postioning stuff, you will see once you start. When I first fitted my LONG springs I was jacking the car off the ground and the lower arm was still no compressed enough to get it all back together..

g,day i have a swb vit 3 inch snake lift 31s i need new shocks to suit but not forkin the big 1s out on th esnake 1s wats the best equivilent

nice grave dig, who said the search doesn't work!!!!

there are a few options.

i'm guessing you mean the 3" calimini vitara lift from snake racing?

for the front try Old Man Emu's or Dobinson's both are longer travel than stock.

the rear you can use commodore wagon rear shocks, these are longer than the calmini shocks.

have read thru the vitara bible, there is plenty of info in there

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/ftopic48779.php

quick question with the vr shocks into a 4 door vitara (95)

do they need a bump stop ext for the sedan shocks or are people using the wagon shocks and no bump stop ext?