Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I am sick and tired of the petrol companies ripping us off with the inflated price of diesel, its about time we did something about it. This is what I am suggesting.

Imagine what would happen if everyone refused to fill up at Shell for a week and then the following week everyone refused to fill up at BP for a week and so on. What I am proposing is that as a group we all refuse to fuel up our cars at a particular petrol company for a week then the next week we move to another petrol company, imagine if these busy servos had 50% less trade for a week that would make the petrol companies stand up and take notice.

What I would suggest is that in the near future I post this idea and everyone who reads it posts the idea to all people on their address book. I believe something similar to this was done several years ago with some success. Imagine if the transport industry jumped on board and a whole heap of larger companies that use lots of fuel. I am sure that it would twist the hand of these giant petro companies and reduce the prices at the bowser. So what do you think???

Cheers
Jason

Unfortunately, private diesel users are to much of a minority to make a difference here.

As an example, I work with computers. If someone decided to ban personal PC sales. No person in any computer store would purchase a personal PC. IBM would laugh, then go back to making money from big business.

Same with Diesel. If everyone stopped buying diesel altogether - the oil companies owuld laugh and contninue making 99% of their profits from the transport company.

allterrain2000 wrote:Imagine what would happen if everyone refused to fill up at Shell for a week and then the following week everyone refused to fill up at BP for a week and so on.

Fuck all... They are multi BILLION $ companies. losing $1000 a week would make them laugh at you. Either that or they will really play nasty and triple the price of diesel to fuck you over more.


someone forward him that spam mail that does the rounds on this one will ya, then check www.snopes.com to see why it wont work.

Good idea but it'll never happen. its been on here before i think.

So buy a petrol and have cheaper fuel and loads more power

If you are really sick of the diesel prices there is one simple answer - Waste Vegetable Oil (and also biodiesel but it is more work).

Here is a forum for info:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a ... =159605551

ISUZUROVER wrote:If you are really sick of the diesel prices there is one simple answer - Waste Vegetable Oil (and also biodiesel but it is more work).

Here is a forum for info:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a ... =159605551

has anyone on OL actually got a biodisel setup running?

it sounds very interesting, whats the power like, significantly reduced?

A thousand dollars a week??? What sort of petrol station are you talking about. Do you think that only 20 people fill up there a week. I am talking about banning a servo all together ie no one fills up, petrol, diesel, LPG you don't even buy a paper from them. I think some people are underestimating the power of the people. The servos make good money not just from fuel but from bread milk etc imagine if no one bought any of these items from them as well. Also think of the inflated cost we are paying in other goods transport costs have gone up significantly since the fuel price increase.

Food for thought
Cheers
Jase

can anyone explain why diesel is 10-15c/litre dearer than petrol?

it always used to be a bit cheaper until recently, is there something i missed D:

Shadow wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:If you are really sick of the diesel prices there is one simple answer - Waste Vegetable Oil (and also biodiesel but it is more work).

Here is a forum for info:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a ... =159605551

has anyone on OL actually got a biodisel setup running?

it sounds very interesting, whats the power like, significantly reduced?

I was (and still am) interested in pursuing biodiesel. I was talking with a guy in north qld who has run his 2 cars on biodiesel for years. He said that biodiesel doesnt have the same power (something like 10% less) but the economy is the same, but at about 20 cents a litre to produce you cant go wrong.

The only obstical that i came across was a source of methanol (used in the process). If anyone knows of a source of methanol i would be interested to know. The only other things you need are sodium hydroxide (drain cleaner) and clean/filtered vegetable oil or animal fat (vege oil is better). He sourced his vege oil from restaurants (not maccas but real restaurants) for free, most places are glad for you to take it away otherwise they have to pay to get rid of it.

The process dislocates the glycerol molecules from the oil leaving you with a layer of biodiesel and glycerine. These 2 layers have to be separated completely as the glycerol will do nasty things to your engine after a while. When i was last talking to others actually making it they would let it sit for up to 6 months to fully separate, but i was thinking a centrifuge might speed things up.

Anyway its been a while since i looked into it and i may be a bit wrong on the process but i would be keen to get together with any one else in sydney who is also interested (provided we can get some methanol), i still have my notes etc here somewhere i got from the guy in north qld, so its just a matter of refreshing the memory.

http://www.biodiesel.org.au check here also for further info.

allterrain2000 wrote:A thousand dollars a week??? What sort of petrol station are you talking about. Do you think that only 20 people fill up there a week. I am talking about banning a servo all together ie no one fills up, petrol, diesel, LPG you don't even buy a paper from them. I think some people are underestimating the power of the people. The servos make good money not just from fuel but from bread milk etc imagine if no one bought any of these items from them as well. Also think of the inflated cost we are paying in other goods transport costs have gone up significantly since the fuel price increase.

Food for thought
Cheers
Jase

In theory it may put a dent in the weekly earnings, but how are you going to get every diesel driver in australia to do this all at the same time? the spam mails didnt work (i saw just the same amount of people filling up on the nominated day at the nominated petrol station). Unless you put an ad on tv during australian idol or big brother or something no one will give a shit and anyway if they are losing money cos no one is filling up they will just increase the price even further.

Shadow wrote:can anyone explain why diesel is 10-15c/litre dearer than petrol?

it always used to be a bit cheaper until recently, is there something i missed D:

mainly because we australian made diesel which cost more to make than imported fuel and to offset any money they loose on unleaded prices

allterrain2000 wrote: The servos make good money not just from fuel but from bread milk etc imagine if no one bought any of these items from them as well.

Servos make SFA on all fuels like 1 or 2 cents/ liter on a good day

Nearly all their money comes from the shop. The 100% markup on everything inside the store is what sustains the business, hence the selling up and constant promotions.

The government and oil magnates are the ones with a hand in your pocket at the pump

-Mick- wrote:The government and oil magnates are the ones with a hand in your pocket at the pump

Isnt it something like 60% of the fuel price is government taxes?

Drop Bear wrote:

-Mick- wrote:The government and oil magnates are the ones with a hand in your pocket at the pump

Isnt it something like 60% of the fuel price is government taxes?

yeah it's pretty huge They want to phase out fossil fuel as much as they want to see people stop smoking They get 20 billion a year from those taxes

Something to think about for anyone who gets a tank of fuel and a pack of smokes. Lil Johnny is riding you like a cowboy

What are you guys paying? I filled up at 1.289cpl on the weekend!!

1.04 to 1.10

paid 1.07 in brisbane friday with a 4cent voucher, and 1.10 in toowoomba on monday.

its around the 1.15 mark in sydney

-Mick- wrote:

Drop Bear wrote:

-Mick- wrote:The government and oil magnates are the ones with a hand in your pocket at the pump

Isnt it something like 60% of the fuel price is government taxes?

yeah it's pretty huge They want to phase out fossil fuel as much as they want to see people stop smoking They get 20 billion a year from those taxes

Something to think about for anyone who gets a tank of fuel and a pack of smokes. Lil Johnny is riding you like a cowboy

I wonder how much of that 20 billion goes in to actually phasing out fossil fuels? Last i heard with biodiesel the government is putting through legislation on excise before they push for it to be commercially available. Seems like they want to punish drivers for using the fossil fuels that their vehicles are designed to run on, cant see how this helps to phase it out

i agree wit every one fule prices are redicilious for example diesal was 1.25 in gunnadah (west of tamworth) it would probly help if the nsw gov droped some of the taxes on fule!!!

http://www.tasmanenergy.com/bio-diesel.htm

Above is a site that i found to be good and one that i bought a book from. I never did get to make bio diesel.

In Wollongong i have seen diesel up to $1.20

AS drop Bear said it is a little hard to find methanol, but last time i looked into the idea i did find some one in the phone book ( dont know who).

Another thing is finding someone with around the right amount of oil that you need.

and even if you make your own biodiesel you are supposed to pay tax on it

with the amount of marginal farmland in australia we could produce massive amounts of biodiesel - the plants they grow do not need prime soils

hell, if europe are growing it I am sure we can

its the big oil companies blocking this I am sure

and by running B5 (5% bio) we could use many of the high-tech diesel motors that otherwise dont like low-surphur diesel

did you know that Mr Diesel invented his engine to run on peanut oil?

grazza wrote:and even if you make your own biodiesel you are supposed to pay tax on it

did you know that Mr Diesel invented his engine to run on peanut oil?

Its so much of a big brother thing . What would happen to the oil companies if we changed to peanut oil.

Did you know that Mr Rudolph Diesel's body was found adrift in the english channel. They think he was murdered.

Shadow wrote:can anyone explain why diesel is 10-15c/litre dearer than petrol?

it always used to be a bit cheaper until recently, is there something i missed D:

Because they are working to a mile per dollar scale, about time you farmers pak's started paying a decent price for fuel.

Try filling up 150 litres of Optimax at 1.15 per litre.

I did my bit for the cause, I considered the cost of doing 1000 km to go to Rover park & back and decided to relax at home instead for Easter, no filled car up, some other sucker can fill the Opec & Gov pockets this month and I'll wait for it to drop back down and use the pushbike if I have to.

who is it that gets the big rebate or what ever it is on diesel? is it farmers or truckies or transport companies that get it .

(This ought to throw a cat amongst the pidgeons.)

I guess we just found a home for all that GM modified Canola getting about here and in Canada, because it is not like people will eat it.

Muddy

Drop Bear wrote:

Shadow wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:If you are really sick of the diesel prices there is one simple answer - Waste Vegetable Oil (and also biodiesel but it is more work).

Here is a forum for info:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a ... =159605551

has anyone on OL actually got a biodisel setup running?

it sounds very interesting, whats the power like, significantly reduced?

I was (and still am) interested in pursuing biodiesel. I was talking with a guy in north qld who has run his 2 cars on biodiesel for years. He said that biodiesel doesnt have the same power (something like 10% less) but the economy is the same, but at about 20 cents a litre to produce you cant go wrong.

The only obstical that i came across was a source of methanol (used in the process). If anyone knows of a source of methanol i would be interested to know. The only other things you need are sodium hydroxide (drain cleaner) and clean/filtered vegetable oil or animal fat (vege oil is better). He sourced his vege oil from restaurants (not maccas but real restaurants) for free, most places are glad for you to take it away otherwise they have to pay to get rid of it.

The process dislocates the glycerol molecules from the oil leaving you with a layer of biodiesel and glycerine. These 2 layers have to be separated completely as the glycerol will do nasty things to your engine after a while. When i was last talking to others actually making it they would let it sit for up to 6 months to fully separate, but i was thinking a centrifuge might speed things up.

Anyway its been a while since i looked into it and i may be a bit wrong on the process but i would be keen to get together with any one else in sydney who is also interested (provided we can get some methanol), i still have my notes etc here somewhere i got from the guy in north qld, so its just a matter of refreshing the memory.

http://www.biodiesel.org.au check here also for further info.

Straight Veg Oil or Fat (also called WVO - Waste Vegatable Oil) is much better and easier to make than Biodiesel - you just have to do a few mods to the truck to start with, but there is no need for methanol or sodium hydroxide, because you run straight filtered oil, you don't transesterify it first. The only downside is you still need a little bit of diesel to start and stop the engine on, and you need 2 tanks and a heat exchanger system.

Strangerover's (Sam) business partner was running his rangie on it for quite a while, but I think he has switched back to diesel because the business is doing so well that he doesn't have time to collect and filter the oil.

allterrain2000 wrote:A thousand dollars a week??? What sort of petrol station are you talking about. Do you think that only 20 people fill up there a week. I am talking about banning a servo all together ie no one fills up, petrol, diesel, LPG you don't even buy a paper from them. I think some people are underestimating the power of the people. The servos make good money not just from fuel but from bread milk etc imagine if no one bought any of these items from them as well. Also think of the inflated cost we are paying in other goods transport costs have gone up significantly since the fuel price increase.

Food for thought
Cheers
Jase

This is a stupid idea, even if you managed to do it, all you would do is make a small business owner (the franchisee) broke. The refinery wouldn't bat an eyelid.

If you think prices are bad in OZ, in Germany I pay double for fuel. Petrol and diesel here are about EURO1.15/L which at current exchange rates is AUD$2.10. Though here you can buy biodiesel at the pumps which is about 20c/L cheaper than normal diesel.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

allterrain2000 wrote:A thousand dollars a week??? What sort of petrol station are you talking about. Do you think that only 20 people fill up there a week. I am talking about banning a servo all together ie no one fills up, petrol, diesel, LPG you don't even buy a paper from them. I think some people are underestimating the power of the people. The servos make good money not just from fuel but from bread milk etc imagine if no one bought any of these items from them as well. Also think of the inflated cost we are paying in other goods transport costs have gone up significantly since the fuel price increase.

Food for thought
Cheers
Jase

This is a stupid idea, even if you managed to do it, all you would do is make a small business owner (the franchisee) broke. The refinery wouldn't bat an eyelid.

If you think prices are bad in OZ, in Germany I pay double for fuel. Petrol and diesel here are about EURO1.15/L which at current exchange rates is AUD$2.10. Though here you can buy biodiesel at the pumps which is about 20c/L cheaper than normal diesel.

But it's already been said, private sales are only part of their sales. Now take into consideration things like fleet, transport companies, mining industry and so forth. The company i work for has a fleet of around 50 vehicles at our branch alone, all committed to using fuel from one specific brand through our particular fuel cards. This is pretty normal right around the country so just imagine how many vehicles are committed to a particular brand. Now think of say a coal mine, how many thousands of litres would they get through in a week all coming from the one place, at just one mine.

Even if you managed to pull a stunt like this off, it would make a small not very noticable dent in the oil companies sales for a week period.

grazza wrote:with the amount of marginal farmland in australia we could produce massive amounts of biodiesel - the plants they grow do not need prime soils

Used cooking oil disposal will become a thing of the past as well, no need to just grow it outright.

grazza wrote:did you know that Mr Diesel invented his engine to run on peanut oil?

Yep, he demostrated it at the Paris expo or something in 1903? And we are still using fossil fuel based diesel more than 100 years later

ISUZUROVER wrote:Straight Veg Oil or Fat (also called WVO - Waste Vegatable Oil) is much better and easier to make than Biodiesel - you just have to do a few mods to the truck to start with, but there is no need for methanol or sodium hydroxide, because you run straight filtered oil, you don't transesterify it first. The only downside is you still need a little bit of diesel to start and stop the engine on, and you need 2 tanks and a heat exchanger system.

Yes this is another option. You just need to decide where you want to put your money and effort, a biodiesel setup or modify your engine to run on straight oil. I prefered biodiesel so no mods are needed (except any rubber seals or hoses need to be changed to synthetic materials, post 90's cars usually have this anyway, biodiesel will corrode natural rubber over time) and also i can easily just run either biodiesel, a combination of the 2 or just petroleum based diesel without any mucking around. And i also believe straight oil will leave deposits in the engine and fuel lines over time, this is why some people opt for biodiesel as it is a cleaner fuel (if made properly). Biodiesel also acts as a solvent and will clean out deposits left from years of petroleum diesel.

The setup required for producing biodiesel (transesterification) is fairly simply and would only cost a few $100 at the most.