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inner tubes, are they a cheaper alternative to beadlocks?
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:01 am
by andrew e
i'm running 35X12.5 bfgs on 15x10s, and the sidewalls have a few deep scratches. so as a temporary repair i put patches on the the holes and stuck inner tubes in. Would running inner tubes at lower preasures act as a cheaper form of second airs ( they are not as effective, but on 10 inch rims they cant do any harm i spose). has anyone else tried somthing similar?
Andrew.
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:04 am
by Bartso
i haven't tried it or thought of it but i would assume if the tube are at a low enough pressure the tyre will come off the rim still
depends how low you want to run your pressures i can run 35's claws at 15psi on 15x8 rims and they won't come off
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:19 am
by andrew e
what i was thinking was it wouldnt come off alltogether, it might break the bead at one point but would pop back on when rotated, as no air has escaped.
Andrew.
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:28 am
by Bartso
well what pressure's do you want to run?
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:28 am
by jtraf
tube tyres go down very fast when the tube is holed. At low pressure a tubed tyre will be very easy to rotate and hole.
Don't run tubed tyres very low pressure offroad unless you carry more than one spare.
Second airs are second airs and inner tubes are inner tubes.
Save yourself the hassle and get newer tyres or don't air down less than about 20 psi when running tubes.
James
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:53 pm
by roc box
if the bead pops back on it could pinch the tube as well.some inner tubes have an inherent problem called carbon black which causes little hard pimples of rubber to form ,they rub on the tyre and cause punctures to happen for no reason.tubeless is a much better option ,only speaking from experience used to fit tyres for a living for 8yrs
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:14 pm
by HEY CHARGER
Thats the most common problem , ripping the valves out when the tyre and tube spin at low pressures.
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:23 pm
by toughnut
Yeah the internal secondair beadlocks are set at about 40psi and the tyre is let down so using a tube won't have any effect on beadlocking.
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:32 pm
by RoldIT
I run Simex h/d tubes inside my pedes and work no worries. They are super thick and come with a 15mm valve stem, you need to drill your rim out to fit the stem. Have run them around 10psi no prob.
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:45 pm
by Zute
how r u going to inflate the innertube? you cant pook the valve thru the rim because than how do you seal the tyre?
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:55 pm
by RoldIT
Zute wrote:how r u going to inflate the innertube? you cant pook the valve thru the rim because than how do you seal the tyre?
Is that question directed to me or regarding the internal beadlocks?
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:04 pm
by oozuk
RoldIT wrote:I run Simex h/d tubes inside my pedes and work no worries. They are super thick and come with a 15mm valve stem, you need to drill your rim out to fit the stem. Have run them around 10psi no prob.
my boss is running the same setup and he lost the valves twice even with simex tubes (but it took a 350chev GQ to turn them) beadlockers are the only way i think
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:15 pm
by RoldIT
oozuk wrote:RoldIT wrote:I run Simex h/d tubes inside my pedes and work no worries. They are super thick and come with a 15mm valve stem, you need to drill your rim out to fit the stem. Have run them around 10psi no prob.
my boss is running the same setup and he lost the valves twice even with simex tubes (but it took a 350chev GQ to turn them) beadlockers are the only way i think
Just to be clear, are you sure they were the larger valve stem? There are 2 types, standard and TR15 stems. The latter are only recent release in AUS and you definately need to drill the valve hole out to a 16mm for them to fit. These, I am told by Chris Hummer himself, are very difficult to destroy. But I guess that depends on how your mate drives ...
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:42 pm
by oozuk
yep there the ones, drives with lots of horsepower and right foot
1st set were the old ones and the newer ones were the bigger valves
tire pressures aren't ran so low now and seems ok
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:48 pm
by RoldIT
oozuk wrote:yep there the ones, drives with lots of horsepower and right foot
1st set were the old ones and the newer ones were the bigger valves
tire pressures aren't ran so low now and seems ok
Fair enough, so far I've had no prob. They ain't beadlocks but for me they do the job.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:33 am
by GQ Toy
oozuk wrote:
RoldIT wrote:
I run Simex h/d tubes inside my pedes and work no worries. They are super thick and come with a 15mm valve stem, you need to drill your rim out to fit the stem. Have run them around 10psi no prob.
my boss is running the same setup and he lost the valves twice even with simex tubes (but it took a 350chev GQ to turn them) beadlockers are the only way i think
Just to be clear, are you sure they were the larger valve stem? There are 2 types, standard and TR15 stems. The latter are only recent release in AUS and you definately need to drill the valve hole out to a 16mm for them to fit. These, I am told by Chris Hummer himself, are very difficult to destroy. But I guess that depends on how your mate drives ...
Used these as well on a nissan ute, but at 12psi had one turn and tear the valve out. Could not get a replacement tube in town and had to use a normal tube and this does not work very well with the valve hole drilled out.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:32 am
by walker
Beadlocks are the way to go................but if you can't afford it then tubes are going to be better than no tubes or beadlock.
I have been running the Simex H/D tubes with the long stem in my JT2's and you definately get twisting but I have not lost or broken a stem yet. I normally run them at 12PSI but had them down at 6PSI to tow out another 4WD without a problem. When you get home you just have to let all the air out of any twisted tube (making sure you keep a tight grip on the valve) then it is easy to move back into place.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:26 am
by Patroler
oozuk wrote:RoldIT wrote:I run Simex h/d tubes inside my pedes and work no worries. They are super thick and come with a 15mm valve stem, you need to drill your rim out to fit the stem. Have run them around 10psi no prob.
my boss is running the same setup and he lost the valves twice even with simex tubes (but it took a 350chev GQ to turn them) beadlockers are the only way i think
i'm running the same setup with a 383 chev ran them a 5psi, 36" simexes on 8" rims, didn't rip the valve off, when i got to the servo to pump them up again i noticed they had turned slightly, probably depends on how you drive, i gave it plenty of stick but in sand, probably if i was on a high traction surface i'd have some trouble.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:42 am
by GQ TROL
We regularly go down to 8-10psi on 35" BFG's with Simex HD tubes with no problems. We use small hose clamps on the stem to stop them turning and pulling through the stem hole and into the rim.
If you punt it into a bank and push the bead off, its simple to pop it back on again with a squirt from the compressor.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:10 am
by roberts
is there any reson why you cant drill a hole for the inertube stem in the rim so having two valves and still run the tubless valve let the tyre down but keep a few more psi in the tube i would think you would run a lower profile tube like a 31" in your 35"s and i cant see why this wouldnt work
Just a thought if some has a spare rim give it a go and let me know hoe it works
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:13 am
by walker
You would then have to ensure you had (and always kept) a seal around the inner tube valve stem.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:36 am
by RoldIT
walker wrote:You would then have to ensure you had (and always kept) a seal around the inner tube valve stem.
Which in my experience would be near impossible. Plus even a lower profile tube will keep inflating until it either stretches to fill the cavity or explodes.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:46 pm
by turps
roberts wrote:is there any reson why you cant drill a hole for the inertube stem in the rim so having two valves and still run the tubless valve let the tyre down but keep a few more psi in the tube i would think you would run a lower profile tube like a 31" in your 35"s and i cant see why this wouldnt work
Just a thought if some has a spare rim give it a go and let me know hoe it works
Nope want work.
How secondairs work.
They have a small tube (could be from a 31 I dont kow) with a Kevlar blanket around it. This stops the tube from expanding and fillin the whole cavity of say a 35" tyre. But what it does do is force this Kevlar blanket to push up against the bead. So when the inner tube is set at approx 40psi. It wil hold the tyres on at very low tyre pressures (ie you leave the valves out and the beads will still hold).
Problem is you can still get mud between the kevlar blanket and and tyre bead. So this allows the tyre to deflate like any other tubeless tyre.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:15 pm
by Bitsamissin
I got the heavy duty Simex tubes on my JT2's and haven't had any drama's whatsoever.
Used to debead a tyre (BFG mud) on just about every Toolangi mud trip then got the JT2's debeading dropped dramatically but still happened. Got the H/D tubes and haven't unseated one since.
The lowest I've gone is about 12psi without any drama's (no tyre slippage). For me they have been worth it so far.
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:07 pm
by sparky
Had heavy duty tubes but chenged to secondairs but found I had less problems with tubes so have ditched the secondairs and gone back to tubes.
Aleast if you pop a tube just carry a spare as it doesn't take that long to put a new tube in .
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:04 pm
by eddie
tubes will go flat if u get a puncher.
secondairs are a prick to fit and i have found thay dont work all that well.
my best way of doing it is::::
tubeless with macinal beadlocks. (where u have to do up 30odd bolts)
will cost more than tubes but less that secondairs