Outer Limits 4x4 Board

tell me the truth is 5 link front on a buggy just a waste of money and time. im in a debate here with a mate, he wants to do it but i thinks its just money wasted that could buy something better, like a couple of weeks at the pub.

what will you run instead of the 5 link?

ozy1 wrote:what will you run instead of the 5 link?

a 3 link

ozy1 wrote:what will you run instead of the 5 link?

Leaf springs

chunderlicious wrote:tell me the truth is 5 link front on a buggy just a waste of money and time. im in a debate here with a mate, he wants to do it but i thinks its just money wasted that could buy something better, like a couple of weeks at the pub.

5 links have binding issues but they are suited to a road going vehicle.

He would be much better running a 4 link including a panhard rod. Usually refered to as a 3link. There are no binding issues with this set up.

RUFF wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:tell me the truth is 5 link front on a buggy just a waste of money and time. im in a debate here with a mate, he wants to do it but i thinks its just money wasted that could buy something better, like a couple of weeks at the pub.

5 links have binding issues but they are suited to a road going vehicle.

He would be much better running a 4 link including a panhard rod. Usually refered to as a 3link. There are no binding issues with this set up.

Wouldnt and axle located by 4 seperate links and then have a panhard. Be called a 5link. Where as a 3 link is what a patrol/cruiser/rover has. 2 radius arms and a panhard.

turps wrote:

RUFF wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:tell me the truth is 5 link front on a buggy just a waste of money and time. im in a debate here with a mate, he wants to do it but i thinks its just money wasted that could buy something better, like a couple of weeks at the pub.

5 links have binding issues but they are suited to a road going vehicle.

He would be much better running a 4 link including a panhard rod. Usually refered to as a 3link. There are no binding issues with this set up.

Wouldnt and axle located by 4 seperate links and then have a panhard. Be called a 5link. Where as a 3 link is what a patrol/cruiser/rover has. 2 radius arms and a panhard.

4 links including panhard

it's a buggy.
go 4 link (triangulated) no panhard rod, but you have to go full hydrolic steer, as drag-links will do all sorts of funny things to the stearing otherwise.

turps wrote:

RUFF wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:tell me the truth is 5 link front on a buggy just a waste of money and time. im in a debate here with a mate, he wants to do it but i thinks its just money wasted that could buy something better, like a couple of weeks at the pub.

5 links have binding issues but they are suited to a road going vehicle.

He would be much better running a 4 link including a panhard rod. Usually refered to as a 3link. There are no binding issues with this set up.

Wouldnt and axle located by 4 seperate links and then have a panhard. Be called a 5link. Where as a 3 link is what a patrol/cruiser/rover has. 2 radius arms and a panhard.

Free body motion has 6 degrees of freedom - translation in x, y & z directions and rotation about x, y & z axii.

A 4x4 axle needs 2 degrees of freedom. Translation in z direction (up/down) and rotation about x axis (articulation).

So the other 4 degrees of freedom need to be constrained. This needs exactly 4 links (1 for each degree of freedom).

If there are more than 4 links, the suspension will be overconstrained. It will flex due to compliance in the mounts, but binding to some degree will occur.

Technically 2 radius arms and a panhard is not 3 link. Each radius arm is 3 links combined. 1 link between the chassis mount and each bush at the axle and a 3rd between each bush at the axle.

Think of it like a childs join the dots drawing puzzle - draw 3 links between the 3 dots, then colour in to make it resemble a radius arm.

So a pair of radius arms + panhard is equivalent to 7 links.

As Ruff suggested, go 3 link + panhard (4 links total) - ideal with track rod steering if you can arrange the 3rd link to clear the engine.

Or like mooman suggested 4 triangulated links (more difficult to clear engine) with full hydraulic steering.

I was about to post a similar reply but Bush65 made it sound much more convincing.

As Ruff suggested, go 3 link + panhard (4 links total) - ideal with track rod steering if you can arrange the 3rd link to clear the engine.

Or like mooman suggested 4 triangulated links (more difficult to clear engine) with full hydraulic steering.

i would go for a reversed triangulated 4 link ( this is the one where the top links run parallel with the chassis rails), no worries with motor clearance

Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Hekta wrote:Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Me to I thought you just counted the number of links between chassi and axle and all was done.

turps wrote:

Hekta wrote:Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Me to I thought you just counted the number of links between chassi and axle and all was done.

Glad im not the only one now confused!

ditto....

post up pics of your different link set up

hienuf wrote:

turps wrote:

Hekta wrote:Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Me to I thought you just counted the number of links between chassi and axle and all was done.

Glad im not the only one now confused!

I think i get it.......But what about Diff breather, Brake lines and Air locker Line?....Does that make it a 10 link?

DanielS wrote:

hienuf wrote:

turps wrote:

Hekta wrote:Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Me to I thought you just counted the number of links between chassi and axle and all was done.

Glad im not the only one now confused!

I think i get it.......But what about Diff breather, Brake lines and Air locker Line?....Does that make it a 10 link?

hhmmmm newby hay.

turps wrote:

DanielS wrote:

hienuf wrote:

turps wrote:

Hekta wrote:Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Me to I thought you just counted the number of links between chassi and axle and all was done.

Glad im not the only one now confused!

I think i get it.......But what about Diff breather, Brake lines and Air locker Line?....Does that make it a 10 link?

hhmmmm newby hay.

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!

DanielS wrote:

turps wrote:

DanielS wrote:

hienuf wrote:

turps wrote:

Hekta wrote:Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Me to I thought you just counted the number of links between chassi and axle and all was done.

Glad im not the only one now confused!

I think i get it.......But what about Diff breather, Brake lines and Air locker Line?....Does that make it a 10 link?

hhmmmm newby hay.

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't ruin it for us n00b. We wanna find out what the real difference in the link setups is

Hekta wrote:

DanielS wrote:

turps wrote:

DanielS wrote:

hienuf wrote:

turps wrote:

Hekta wrote:Hrm... I thought I knew what 3 links, 4 links and 5 links were until I read this thread

Back to the old drawing board....

Me to I thought you just counted the number of links between chassi and axle and all was done.

Glad im not the only one now confused!

I think i get it.......But what about Diff breather, Brake lines and Air locker Line?....Does that make it a 10 link?

hhmmmm newby hay.

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't ruin it for us n00b. We wanna find out what the real difference in the link setups is

Was only having a Joke , i agree with you Hekta and thought it was the number of links between chassi and diff.........

why don't we try to keep the chit chat out of this?

N*A*M wrote:why don't we try to keep the chit chat out of this?

OK can someone explain to all of us suspension n00b guys then, the difference between the different link setups, please ?

Triangulated 4 link.

3 link + panhard front.

Can be used at rear as well.

5 link incl panhard front (edit to remove +).

More likely to bind than 3 link - binding is only avoided by flexability in bushes.

Reduced anti-dive while braking because links are parallel (looking from side). Binding will be worse if you try to build in ant-dive (becomes equivalent to radius arms).

so is there such thing as a 3 link a frame?

yes i have a 3 link in the back of mine upper link is an a-frame

jake lawson wrote:yes i have a 3 link in the back of mine upper link is an a-frame

An A-frame is not a link. Neither is a radius arm.

A link, by definition connects 2 points and only resists load along its axis (can only constrain one degree of freedom). It does not resist rotations at it's ends.

A-frame as used in most 4x4 suspension systems is equivalent to 2 links and constrains 2 degrees of freedom. 2 lowers and A-frame upper is technically equivalent to a 4 link, it is incorrect to call it a 3 link.

So guy’s if I was to build a buggy without hydro and mechanical linked steering, can I run a triangulated four link like to one pictured on the rolled car. The two lower links would have mushroom bushers at the vehicle end and normal bushers at the other. Then the top arms would have mushroom bushers that the centre of the diff and normal bush at he vehicle. Or will I need a panhard rod as well?

If I do need a panhard rod, would I be correct in saying that rod needs to be the same length and parallel to the steering to stop binding?

DeWsE wrote:If I do need a panhard rod, would I be correct in saying that rod needs to be the same length and parallel to the steering to stop binding?

not bind but bump steer