Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I was speaking today to a couple of engineers re certificates, and one mentioned that a new Bulletin from RTA will be issued soon, he believes 3-4 weeks.

Basically:
1. Maximum lift on ANY vehicle newer than 84-85(to be confirmed) will be limited to 50mm, thats body lift AND suspension. So a hilux with 50mm body blocks AND 50mm spring lift will be illegal!! All those 4 inch lifted Cruisers and Patrols will also be illegal.
2. Extended shackles are TOTALLY illegal (this has been Bulletin'd already)
3. Wheel tracks greater than 25mm from original manufacturers wheel track will be illegal.(already bulletined, but mentioned again)
4. Maximum tyre diameter cannot exceed the manufacturers Placard sizes (currently Bulletined)

All vehicles that dont comply to this will be illegal, un roadworthy, u can be fined by Police, and they will be enforcing as well!

So basically, the engineer tells me that 90% of modified vehicles will be un-roadworthy, and will need to be converted back to stock standard.

On another note, the engineered advised me that they are considering a Bulletin to define body block lifts, where if there is a body block installed, then the bolts attaching the body to the chassis will need to be thickened to allow for the extra forces generated by a higher body.

BUGGER!!!

Will be interesting to see what happens when this bulletin comes out.

not meaning to say you're lying..
but can you show proof with a scan of the document please.
you know how the internet is with revelations like this

like I said in the thread Thor, the actual NEW bulletin is to come out in 3-4 weeks ( as told by the Engineer that I was speaking to)

the other documents relating to wheels and tyres are in the RTA web site:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_dl1.html

shows the Bulletins. refer to VSI 09 for tyres/ wheels, and VSI 15 for Engineers names.

One of those in that list told me all that info.

We have to wait till the Bulletin comes out, HOPEFULLY they will have a SECOND thought and not release it.
Karl

And how can they suddenly make vehicles that have been leaglly modified illegal. Are they going to pay for all the previously leagl mods that would be a massive government funded buy back system, makes the gun buy back look like small change

i used to think what the point of building a buggy?
Now i know why!

grimbo wrote:And how can they suddenly make vehicles that have been leaglly modified illegal. Are they going to pay for all the previously leagl mods that would be a massive government funded buy back system, makes the gun buy back look like small change

Yep I hope they buy back all my mods and the engineers certificate I got aswell. NOT CHEAP!

no probs! they want to do that its fine by me, as sure as my ass points to the ground i along with many others have enough camping gear to set up camp where it will piss them right off and with enough peoiple that feel the same pasion for there 4wd, i think we can make a diferance! if that fails im sure we could shake them up enough in parliment with our threats of voting for someone who does like modified 4wds! how many people out there own a 4wd? how many people would be willing to put there hands up for the chance to get them to pull there head in? A LOT! id say RTA would find it a big a very costly to go ahead with this shit! why the fuck dont they concentrate on these blokes that go street racing illegaly and have modified cars that are a more high risk problem than 4wd? because some pencil pushin poofter that drives a totaly stock little people mover that works for RTA got overtakin on some dirt road by a real 4wd thats worth half of his dogbox! they can shove it up there coit, i aint changin shit on my truck cause of some shatty nobhead! all that sadi im now calm down and can calmy say! HAVE A NICE DAY AND ENJOY YAH LONG WEEKEND GUYS! YEEEEEHAAAAAA GET IT IN THA DIRT!

IF they do this hopefully it wont be retrospective and the dates of manufacture will be 05. I'm not sure if historically they have back flipped before, but the regs do seem to have start dates which I assume (possibly incorectly) of when the rules come into force.

Did they make cars without seatbelts ever go back and have to fit them?

Yep Slunnie, they did..

Back to 1965 I think

Maxtd5def wrote:Yep Slunnie, they did..

Back to 1965 I think

sort of. My Valiants a 67 and 70 didn't need rear belts to be leagl or rwc as to my 67 HR but the HR and the 67 Val did need to have front belts retro fitted

buggy time

ik spoke to my engineer 2 weeks ago, and he said evry mod i want to do will be fine,

so, now Nissan Trials will be standard class only, Tuff Truck will be standard class only, Woodpecker and willowglen all standard class only............................it wont be back dated.

V6XtraHilux wrote:I was speaking today to a couple of engineers re certificates, and one mentioned that a new Bulletin from RTA will be issued soon, he believes 3-4 weeks.

Basically:
1. Maximum lift on ANY vehicle newer than 84-85(to be confirmed) will be limited to 50mm, thats body lift AND suspension. So a hilux with 50mm body blocks AND 50mm spring lift will be illegal!! All those 4 inch lifted Cruisers and Patrols will also be illegal.
2. Extended shackles are TOTALLY illegal (this has been Bulletin'd already)
3. Wheel tracks greater than 25mm from original manufacturers wheel track will be illegal.(already bulletined, but mentioned again)
4. Maximum tyre diameter cannot exceed the manufacturers Placard sizes (currently Bulletined)

All vehicles that dont comply to this will be illegal, un roadworthy, u can be fined by Police, and they will be enforcing as well!

So basically, the engineer tells me that 90% of modified vehicles will be un-roadworthy, and will need to be converted back to stock standard.

On another note, the engineered advised me that they are considering a Bulletin to define body block lifts, where if there is a body block installed, then the bolts attaching the body to the chassis will need to be thickened to allow for the extra forces generated by a higher body.

BUGGER!!!

Will be interesting to see what happens when this bulletin comes out.

my zuk is an 83 model

redzook wrote:

V6XtraHilux wrote:I was speaking today to a couple of engineers re certificates, and one mentioned that a new Bulletin from RTA will be issued soon, he believes 3-4 weeks.

Basically:
1. Maximum lift on ANY vehicle newer than 84-85(to be confirmed) will be limited to 50mm, thats body lift AND suspension. So a hilux with 50mm body blocks AND 50mm spring lift will be illegal!! All those 4 inch lifted Cruisers and Patrols will also be illegal.
2. Extended shackles are TOTALLY illegal (this has been Bulletin'd already)
3. Wheel tracks greater than 25mm from original manufacturers wheel track will be illegal.(already bulletined, but mentioned again)
4. Maximum tyre diameter cannot exceed the manufacturers Placard sizes (currently Bulletined)

All vehicles that dont comply to this will be illegal, un roadworthy, u can be fined by Police, and they will be enforcing as well!

So basically, the engineer tells me that 90% of modified vehicles will be un-roadworthy, and will need to be converted back to stock standard.

On another note, the engineered advised me that they are considering a Bulletin to define body block lifts, where if there is a body block installed, then the bolts attaching the body to the chassis will need to be thickened to allow for the extra forces generated by a higher body.

BUGGER!!!

Will be interesting to see what happens when this bulletin comes out.

my zuk is an 83 model

My Patrol is a 12/83 build

Not that it affects me anyway...

welcome to qld fawkers

Cool my old Landy is about 68BC.

This'll be known as the "Buggy Boomers".

hienuf wrote:i used to think what the point of building a buggy?
Now i know why!

So you can trailer your buggy to somebody's private property and attempt a limited number of obstacles until you discover it's sort of like having a motocross bike only heaps more expensive maybe.

I'm sure having a buggy is fun but if you aren't competing you are very limited in the places you can go- and isn't that the reason most of us own 4by's?

i have found a way around this, but reunning coil overs, you can have 2 upper mounts, one that allows 2" over standard, and but relocating the coil overs upper mounts you will be higher again, not much work when you get to the trail really, and that leaves you with only worring about defected for tyres,

The MogRover with some flares will be the only street legal truck on the roads. That hasn't even got a suspension lift does it?

I'm just wondering if the tough interprtetation of the ADR regarding lifts allways applied in QLD or if they were legal for a while and then imposed them from a certain date on. If so, did they apply the change of rules retrospectively? I'm just curious about the legal implications of going through a certification process to get my mods legally registered with the RTA just to get it nullified after a while.

Cheers
Joachim

got $4000 worth of suspension n other mods sitting in the garage at this point in time and its going in regardless.

imagine the industries that will go broke with such laws - government could never afford to compramise themselves like that. it would create massive public backlash. they would have 2 set a current date of manufacture as of now to create as little industry and individual upset as possible.

and just in case, i got the camping gear ready to go PROTEST.

4WD TENT EMBASSY HERE WE COME!!!!!!
GLASS ACTION HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!

if you have a look the walls at it's base rise at about 30 degrees... palament house index of flex any one... they can't do this with out putting lots of people out of a job and if they do that then arb will move off shore and think of that.
it's not going to happen

Matt

twinnie wrote:if you have a look the walls at it's base rise at about 30 degrees... palament house index of flex any one... they can't do this with out putting lots of people out of a job and if they do that then arb will move off shore and think of that.
it's not going to happen

Matt

Why is that? This rulling will not effect ARB they only make 2" suspension lift's

In WA we have this same rulling, however you can get approval to do upto 6" lift as long as you do a lane change test. Even 35's can be approved as long as lane change test is done. But approval take a long time, I have been waiting for 10 weeks so far

Chris.

He's right there is new laws coming out to make mod guidelines across the states the same. However my engineer told me it wont effect allready modded and approved vehicles. Just make them worth a whole lot more money.

. . . Basically:
1. . . illegal!! . . . TOTALLY illegal . . .
3. . . illegal. . .

. . . illegal, . . . fined by Police . . .

I don't know of anyone who's had a criminal conviction recorded against them for driving a defective vehicle. I do believe you mean that the vehicle will not be roadworthy. It is not a crime to drive a defective vehicle (unless it kills or maims someone, and even then driving an unroadworthy vehicle will not be the charge) and hence not illegal.

You will not be fined by police, you will be issued with a defect notice. Police do not issue fines for unroadworthy vehicles in NSW, this is under the RTA's umbrella.

What you are suggesting are changes to the ADRs? I doubt it, maybe changes to Owner-Certified Modification Guidelines, meaning that you will simply need an Engineers Report to allow roadworthyness.

Any vehicle that complies with the Australian Design Rules may be registered in NSW. THIS is the law.

This is the kind of scare-mongering that I'd expect from a greeny!

slosh wrote:

hienuf wrote:i used to think what the point of building a buggy?
Now i know why!

So you can trailer your buggy to somebody's private property and attempt a limited number of obstacles until you discover it's sort of like having a motocross bike only heaps more expensive maybe.

I'm sure having a buggy is fun but if you aren't competing you are very limited in the places you can go- and isn't that the reason most of us own 4by's?

i built a buggy a year ago because i was sick of dealing with all the bullshit with a registered vehicle, it was the best thing i have ever done. i have no interest whatsoever in competing and am now building my second one. there is plenty of stuff to drive, and running a buggy and a trailer is way cheaper than running a modified, registered 4wd car.

I can't see how the build date of the car is at all relevant here.
How is it safe to lift an 84 hilux 6 inches but not safe for the same car built 2 years later??

I don't understand why they would have a cutoff like this. It's not like there were major design changes to cars after 85.

[quote="Syzygy"

I don't understand why they would have a cutoff like this. It's not like there were major design changes to cars after 85.[/quote]

If anything they are safer. ie the brakes actually work.

Hire out an area of land in the city for a week, and set up a stand of some of the modified vehicles (no "buggies") at reasonable attitudes (scary to most ppl) and allow the public to come up and give the vehicles a push and shake to demonstrate how stable they actually are, despite their size/height.

A bit of a spiel on how we can see over the traffic 6-8 cars in front actually can reduce accident by allowing smaller vehicles behind us to have more "advance warning" of ppl stopping in front than the 2-4 vehicle notice thay would normally have, could also have a good effect. Get the 4WD assn on side to provide a bit of info on the more general 4WD camping/touring stuff.

Special mention should be made about "mums taxi" and the real risks that large vehicles pose near school, shopping centres and such, emphasising that the 4WD assn and all clubs fully support advanced 4wd driver training - something not many if any "mums taxi" drivers have. Emphasise the "appropriate vehicle for appropriate use" line. Essentially try to establish that the bad rap 4WDers get is not as a result of the "true" 4WD population, but is more a case of "trophy/status vehicles" driven by people that rarely if ever go off the bitumen.

Next step would be to contact a few of the insurance companies and ask for statistics on where the most accidents/profile of claimants actually happen. If it turns out to be female, <35, suburban, then it would be quite reasonable to absolutely differentiate yourself from their demographic.

Get the minister for transport down to look at the exhibit and explain why the vehicles should be banned from the road (ambush methods) given the data you present to them....

I would be looking forward to the

GaryInOz wrote:
A bit of a spiel on how we can see over the traffic 6-8 cars in front actually can reduce accident by allowing smaller vehicles behind us to have more "advance warning" of ppl stopping in front than the 2-4 vehicle notice thay would normally have, could also have a good effect.

Perfect scenario.... I was travelling on the F3 to Syd the other week... and all of a sudden about hal a doz cars all started locking it up due to, 1: sitting WAY to close to the car in front.... and 2: the idiot in the first car not paying attention to the road and having to stomp on the brakes, starting the caos!!!

I was able to brake earlier and softer, and everyone behind me was well ready for the "slow down in traffic" instead of maybe causing a multiple car pile up, which, could have resulted in injury, at worst death.

Scared the absolute shiat outta me, but glad I seen it coming!!!


BTW, BRING ON THE 4WD TENT EMBASSY... THAT'D BE FUN Imagine the publicity on that... the media would have a field day!! Could be a good thing.... but could also go awfully bad too.