Outer Limits 4x4 Board

'01 model with only 45k and there is a slight shudder on take off, with factory clutch, why would this be? I have heard this is a problem around this era...

Unevenly worn clutch plate...maybe....

Cheers

sounds a bit way to soon for any clutch dramas but thats what it would be hows your drivin style?

i think i heard something about rebuilt engines causing clutch shudder if you fail to get the rear main seal, sealing right. anyone????

oil on the clutch will cause slippage but when replacing a clutch you should always get the flywheel machined to avoid clutch shudder

Check your engine mounts and transmission mounts.

It could have a hot spot on the flywheel. If it has been a bit hot from burning the clutch. Have you done any heavy work that over worked the clutch. could you smell it burn at any stage?

midi73 wrote:It could have a hot spot on the flywheel. If it has been a bit hot from burning the clutch. Have you done any heavy work that over worked the clutch. could you smell it burn at any stage?

It's done some serious towing, but there has always been a bit of an issue with the shudder. Might wait for the clutch to die and have a good look then.

do you take off in second gear from the lights and stuff with no load on?
if so that can glaze the flywheel. Common problem with old farmers and the like.
cheers wes

MQ080 wrote:

midi73 wrote:It could have a hot spot on the flywheel. If it has been a bit hot from burning the clutch. Have you done any heavy work that over worked the clutch. could you smell it burn at any stage?

It's done some serious towing, but there has always been a bit of an issue with the shudder. Might wait for the clutch to die and have a good look then.

This was taken for the LCOOL group:

QUOTE

Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Re: Clutch Shudder


Guys, I got on to one of the local "experts" who did a large amount of
warrantee work for the clutch shudder problem.

I had an original spare clutch, but the recommendation was to use a Dyco
clutch.

The key to it though was the flywheel.

A new flywheel was over $1000 - so I went with a refinish on the existing.

According to the man - the flywheel gets hot-spots which wear unevenly,
which then create the shudder problem, also the finish of the flywheel is
important. He uses a lathe, not a grinder to finish the flywheel.

In my case he took off (from memory) about 3mm (a lot of metal) so I now
have a lightweight performance flywheel.

I've now done over 50k since the new clutch went in - I do have a little bit
of shudder in reverse on occasion, but forward is still all good.

ENDQUOTE

Might be worth considering if you go for a new clutch.

mate 3 mm off a flywheel is huge amount.
i do this for job and have always ground the flywheels, but if the hot spots are that bad we will replace the flywheel with a better condition second hand one that has been machined on a proper flywheel grinder. I am not saying that i know evrything this is just my opion

tuf045 wrote:mate 3 mm off a flywheel is huge amount.
i do this for job and have always ground the flywheels, but if the hot spots are that bad we will replace the flywheel with a better condition second hand one that has been machined on a proper flywheel grinder. I am not saying that i know evrything this is just my opion

Sounds like a bucket load to me too but that was the way this guy went.

hairy muff.
must be mint to do 50 thou.

whne replacing your clutch you should ALWAYS machine the flywheel face...most toyota flywheels are machined from factory with a 20thou step..make sure the person who machines it is a reputable brake and clutch specialist as most mechanicalplaces run a small deglazing disc over it which causes more damage to the clutch surface due to it being uneven,also..a note that..when fitting a new clutch if your flywheel has not been machined and you take the car back to where you had it fitted for warrenty for shudder the company who supplied the clutch will reject the warrenty,however another cause of shudder with a new clutch and the flywheel has been machined is when most refit the gearbox, they tend to "hang" the gearbox off the back of the motor to rest or what ever and this weight will cause the clutch plate to bend also its wise to check your rear main seal also ,if it has a slight weep...replace it...saves you lotsa money in the long run

Could'nt have said it better myself.

I'd put a dollar on the clutch driven plate being bent when the gearbox was changed - without interference toyota clutches usually go out with a whimper, wearing out snd slipping long before they break.

oil on the clutch can cause shudder but a leaking rear main seal is very unlikely to get oil on the clutch - a far more likely cause of oil on the clutch is a leaking input shaft seal on the gearbox, which is usually caused by the gearbox being overfull or lots of steep downhill work. not sure if that truch has a H15x gearbox or a R15x? if the H series gearbox it has an oil pump in the front and is less likely to leak oil out the front.

I'd try a Lebanese clutch adjustment - put it in 4th, clutch in, rev it up and let the clutch out slowly - lots of slip, get a bit of heat into it and try to wear off the high spots. do it a few times with 10 minutes between goes to let it cool down. But that's just me.

This being having not been said,
Which engine are we talking about.
petrol 6 or diesel 6 or turbo dielse 6

Many reasons come about due to different clutch desigh and fitment.

Punchy wrote:This being having not been said,
Which engine are we talking about.
petrol 6 or diesel 6 or turbo dielse 6

Many reasons come about due to different clutch desigh and fitment.

it's a 1HZ

You did well. The clutch in my 04 79 was repaled at 39,000km. I tow a 1.5 tonne boat but am not a clutch rider. Toyota said that these new generation 4x4s are not designed for heavy towing. Up to 1 tonne is OK in moderation.

patrolmad wrote:You did well. The clutch in my 04 79 was repaled at 39,000km. I tow a 1.5 tonne boat but am not a clutch rider. Toyota said that these new generation 4x4s are not designed for heavy towing. Up to 1 tonne is OK in moderation.

Issues only really arose when I towed a MQ over the bells line. It went back to Toyota for gearbox rebuilds twice (under warranty) but since then there was notice able shudder from take off. It has reduced considerably. However my concern is for future towing, is the clutch up to it?

MQ080 wrote:

patrolmad wrote:You did well. The clutch in my 04 79 was repaled at 39,000km. I tow a 1.5 tonne boat but am not a clutch rider. Toyota said that these new generation 4x4s are not designed for heavy towing. Up to 1 tonne is OK in moderation.

Issues only really arose when I towed a MQ over the bells line. It went back to Toyota for gearbox rebuilds twice (under warranty) but since then there was notice able shudder from take off. It has reduced considerably. However my concern is for future towing, is the clutch up to it?

a most emphatic no. for some reason, in its infinite wisdom, toyota has saddled the 1HZ with a puny 10" clutch, like the F/2F/3F petrol motors. 2H, 12H-T, 1HD-(F)T all have 11" clutches that are far more robust from the factory, BUT toyota factory clutches are always set up for the absolute minimum required foot effort so they are naturally slippy after not a lot of km. If you replace the clutch with a sturdy aftermarket unit, then the 79 will tow happily all day long. It's not that big a job to change the clutch in the 79 - Carts will do it for you even though he is too lazy to do his own!

our work 79's all shuddered when cold and went away once they warmed up...


Even my 1HDFTE with 200kms on the clock shuddered on cold...


Toyota said it was due to the combustion in the cold motor being uneven

dumbdunce wrote: It's not that big a job to change the clutch in the 79 - Carts will do it for you even though he is too lazy to do his own!

What's "better" about an after market clutch if it's still the same size?

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote: It's not that big a job to change the clutch in the 79 - Carts will do it for you even though he is too lazy to do his own!

What's "better" about an after market clutch if it's still the same size?

better friction lining materials (higher coefficient of friction and/or less wear), more clamping force, more robust diaphragm spring - the downsides are harsher engagement (needs more foot finesse) and more pedal effort.