Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just did a complete oil change today for the first time on my rangie, and the oil that came out of the gearbox was very very thin, but according to the manual it should be motor oil in there. I put Shell Helix in it but wanted to check with you guys on what it should be.

Maggot4x4 wrote:Just did a complete oil change today for the first time on my rangie, and the oil that came out of the gearbox was very very thin, but according to the manual it should be motor oil in there. I put Shell Helix in it but wanted to check with you guys on what it should be.

Motor oil is not good enough for the pressures between the gear teeth. The rover boxes need a low viscosity GL4 gear oil (high viscosity will give other problems).

Land Rover now recommends MTF-94, which is produced by Caltex.

I use Castrol Syntrans 75W85, which is fully synthetic.

Other suitable manual transmission fluids are:

Castrol VMX 80 (some people like this and others don't) or SMX 80
Redline MTL 70W80
Shell Spirax GSX 75W80
Valvoline Duragear 70W85
Penrite Manual Gear Oil Xtra Light

Bush65 wrote:

Maggot4x4 wrote:Just did a complete oil change today for the first time on my rangie, and the oil that came out of the gearbox was very very thin, but according to the manual it should be motor oil in there. I put Shell Helix in it but wanted to check with you guys on what it should be.

Motor oil is not good enough for the pressures between the gear teeth. The rover boxes need a low viscosity GL4 gear oil (high viscosity will give other problems).

Land Rover now recommends MTF-94, which is produced by Caltex.

I use Castrol Syntrans 75W85, which is fully synthetic.

Other suitable manual transmission fluids are:

Castrol VMX 80 (some people like this and others don't) or SMX 80
Redline MTL 70W80
Shell Spirax GSX 75W80
Valvoline Duragear 70W85
Penrite Manual Gear Oil Xtra Light

VMX80 is what I put in the transfer (LT230). So it should go in the gearbox as well? I can tell you it is shifting a whole lot better with the motor oil in it than it was with the thin stuff that was in it before.

It may shift better, but John's right about the ability to handle pressure. Better off with the gear oils. I use the VMX 80, but might consider the flasher synthetic one next time.

What year is the LT85 from?

I was going to change the oil in my 77 Rangie next weekend. I have been using 85/140 in the diffs and was going to use the same in the g'box but by the sounds of it it is too heavy.

walker wrote:What year is the LT85 from?

I was going to change the oil in my 77 Rangie next weekend. I have been using 85/140 in the diffs and was going to use the same in the g'box but by the sounds of it it is too heavy.

That will most likely stuff your LT95. The oil pump wont be able to handle it - the fibre gear fails.

what about the LT230's...
who uses what ???
interested in your response Bush -

landy_man wrote:what about the LT230's...
who uses what ???
interested in your response Bush -

As I recall, you can run EP90 in the LT230.

When I changed mine to a 1.4:1 with maxi crawler gears a little while back, I filled it with manual transmission fluid. It hasn't done many km's but will drop the oil soon to check it.

yep... manual says EP90.. i.e. diff oil... i have been runing 80W/90W and it seems to be running fine...
just thought you may have experience with a particular type of oil or viscosity that is any better

walker wrote:What year is the LT85 from?

I was going to change the oil in my 77 Rangie next weekend. I have been using 85/140 in the diffs and was going to use the same in the g'box but by the sounds of it it is too heavy.

It's out of an '86 110 County.

I thought rangies had LT95 boxes. Are you sure you have the LT85?

The LT85 is the 5 speed Santana box, and in the manual of my 90 with an LT85 states to use 15W40 oil. I'd heard about using VMX80 and tried it out but had to rebuild my box shortly after. It may have been on the way out anyway, but I now stick with 15W40. Sticking diff oil in it will kill it pretty quick I imagine, the LT85's have that classic landy problem of not enough oil getting to the end of the mainshaft anyway.

lowbox wrote:I thought rangies had LT95 boxes. Are you sure you have the LT85?

The LT85 is the 5 speed Santana box, and in the manual of my 90 with an LT85 states to use 15W40 oil. I'd heard about using VMX80 and tried it out but had to rebuild my box shortly after. It may have been on the way out anyway, but I now stick with 15W40. Sticking diff oil in it will kill it pretty quick I imagine, the LT85's have that classic landy problem of not enough oil getting to the end of the mainshaft anyway.

Maggot4x4 wrote:
It's out of an '86 110 County.

Yes I'm sure. 15w40? Which brand?

Recommended oils -10 to 35 degrees C
LT85 5 speed gearbox

BP Visco 2000 15W/40 or Visco Nova 10W/30
Castrol GTX 15W/50 or Castrolite 10W/40
Duckhams Hypergrade 15W/50
Esso Super Lube 15W/40
Mobil Super 15W/40 or 10W/40
Shell Super Multigrade 15W/40 or 10W/30
Havoline 15W/40 or 10W/40

On another page it says for hotter ambient conditions refer local distributor or use 15/50 or 20W/40 or 20W/50

Thats from the 1988 original 90/110 owners manual

lowbox wrote:Recommended oils -10 to 35 degrees C
LT85 5 speed gearbox

BP Visco 2000 15W/40 or Visco Nova 10W/30
Castrol GTX 15W/50 or Castrolite 10W/40
Duckhams Hypergrade 15W/50
Esso Super Lube 15W/40
Mobil Super 15W/40 or 10W/40
Shell Super Multigrade 15W/40 or 10W/30
Havoline 15W/40 or 10W/40

On another page it says for hotter ambient conditions refer local distributor or use 15/50 or 20W/40 or 20W/50

Thats from the 1988 original 90/110 owners manual

I used 20W50 as above. So it should be correct then yes?

Thanks for the help guys.

I'll still stick with what I said about oil and pressure earlier.

The design of the LT95, LT85, LT77 and R380 in respect to their lubrication, are similar enough for me to believe that what is best for one is most likely best for the others.

Rover have changed their lubrication recommendations more than once since manuals were published. They have in the past recommended 80EP (early LT95) this lead to failures so they changed to multigrade engine oil, then they changed to auto transmission fluid with LT77 and R380, then changed again to manual transmission fluid (when they bought out MTF94) because they need the GL4 high pressure additives.

Don't use high viscosity oil (like EP90) because the lube pump can't handle it.

Neither multi grade engine oil or auto transmission fluid are as good as manual transmission fluid (which has GL4 high pressure additives). I tried Mobil 1 in a rebuilt LT77 once, when I couldn't get MTF, and after a short time there was a high amount of steel particles in the oil when it was drained.

Well could someone please tell that using ATF in my R380 as started in the manual is wrong or write thing to do??


Matt

from what John is saying it appears that LR no longer recommend using ATF in the R380... rather MTF94
Best to call your dealer and see what they say

My LT85 was rebuilt by Mal Story 15000km before I bought the truck.

When I bought it I called up Mal and asked what he recommended for gear oil. He told me to run Castrol VMX 80. Which I did for 20000km before I moved OS with no adverse effects.

The VMX 80 improved shifting over the oil that was in there previously, however the 1st-2nd shift when completely cold is still a bit difficult.

I run EP85W90 in the LT230.

I spoke to Mal about the oil pump drive gear shearing. The LT85 and LT95 have a fibre gear, the LT77 has a metal gear. He said the only cases he has seen of the gear failing were in early LT95's that were filled with EP90 and then driven in snowy conditions down south.

Texaco/Caltex MTF94 has been the factory fill in the R380 since at least '97, regardless of what the manual rcommends.

John's recommendation of Syntrans is a very good one, it is an excellent lube. I've used it and VMX 80, and Syntrans wins, hands down.

Engine oil has the wrong co-efficient of friction for correct synchro performance, and they can shear rapidly when used in a gear box. The reason engine oil was originally specced is that there were no low viscosity manual trans lubes back when the older gearboxes were developed/built.

Red90 has an excellent page of low viscosity lubes here