Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi

Just bought a new 2005 Wrangler renegade, after years of Zuuk driving! Looking forward to testing the limits of this machine, but first need a bit of advice:

I don't do competition/serious offroad stuff, but I still want good off-road ability when required. I'm wanting a little bit of lift and better articulation, but so far all I have been able to come up with is 2" lifts from OME and Tough Dog all around the $1300 mark. I'm thinking I'd be hapy with 3-4", but could be wrong. Also considering I'll be doing my day-to-day driving in this, do I go for 31,32, 0r bigger A/Ts? Tyre size may influence lift. Not sure If I'm keen on spacers to get an extra inch of lift. Also how much bigger can one go on the wheels before having to change the gearing.

I'm sure these questions have been asked many times, but please humour me. It's my first Jeep.

Jack

welcome

sounds like OME or toughdog 2/2.5 would be perfect for your application, flexes like mad and i suppose you could say there are some aerodynamic benefits over a bigger lift, along with less ground clearance robbing.
then if you run 31's, you have a capable vehicle with bearable gearing.
i had a suzi and like me i'm sure you'll be surprised at the out of the box capability.

also, test the difference with the front sway bar disconnected and you'll see why this "disconnecting" thing is mentioned so much when it comes to wranglers

btw where are you? i know of a toughdog kit for sale second hand.

I'm in Melbourne.

Is it worth looking at second hand gear? Don't the springs etc. sag after a while?

second hand gear can be alright. ask/check for use & abuse.
the set i know of is only on for a few thousand k's old... i'll send you a PM about it.

3.5" lift is a good starting point - SYE not required reasonable articulation and relatively cheap. - Rubicon Express do an excellent kit. Don't be tricked into anything else. This allows fitting of up to 33" tyres - but best suited (visually) to 32's.

Once the lift increases to 4" a SYE is required.

I just bought a 4.5 RE kit and i am extremely happy.

Mat

maty wrote:3.5" lift is a good starting point - SYE not required reasonable articulation and relatively cheap. - Rubicon Express do an excellent kit. Don't be tricked into anything else. This allows fitting of up to 33" tyres - but best suited (visually) to 32's.

Once the lift increases to 4" a SYE is required.

I just bought a 4.5 RE kit and i am extremely happy.

Mat

Mat - Thanks for the biased sales spiel

zulujack - my best piece of advice would be to join the forums at http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com
It is full of great people and advice and 99% aussie jeep owners with local knowledge.

33" tyres will require regearing to be useful onroad.
You can drive around on 33's and stock gearing, but it is better with 4.10 or 4.56 gears

31's are a good size to begin with and especially if it is a daily driver.
The OME 2.5" lift is fully fitted for around $1200 and will provide the room for the 31's.
A set of quick disconnects will also serve you well offroad and give you more flex.

But seriously, join the jeep forums and search around as this topic has been covered many many times.

Thanks.

I have done some enquiries about OME (via ARB) and they seem unwilling to provide anything above 2". Its the whole Insurance/Legality thing. Personally I don't care about that as I made sure my insurance covers mods, and so does the Jeep warrenty. All I'm interested in is getting the best all-round setup.

Anybody know if it will be costly to change the gearing for 32"s? Otherwise I'll just go the 31"s with as close as I can get to 3" lift (depending on what's available). I suppose 2.5" can be achieved with a 2" kit + 0.5" spacers, but I'm not quite sure that this is the best solution.

32's on stock gearing would be just bearable, but regearing is one of the best mods you can do...

if you are in melbourne, call the jeep specialists and im sure they'll give you a range of options...

www.jbitz.com.au

or

www.USA4x4.com.au

or

www.abt4x4.com

zulujack wrote:Thanks.

I have done some enquiries about OME (via ARB) and they seem unwilling to provide anything above 2". Its the whole Insurance/Legality thing. Personally I don't care about that as I made sure my insurance covers mods, and so does the Jeep warrenty. All I'm interested in is getting the best all-round setup.

Anybody know if it will be costly to change the gearing for 32"s? Otherwise I'll just go the 31"s with as close as I can get to 3" lift (depending on what's available). I suppose 2.5" can be achieved with a 2" kit + 0.5" spacers, but I'm not quite sure that this is the best solution.

If you ask for the heavy duty coils at ARB it makes it close to a 2.5" lift.
You can also get spacers in sizes .75", 1.75" etc.

2.5-3" of lift is about as as much as you want without running into vibration issues and to run 31's you really only need 2-2.5" lift.

Re-gearing is not a cheap option and will cost you $1000 or more.
The gears themselves are around $500 and then the install costs will add plenty more.
It is best to fit a locker at the same time as you regear as the diff is open anyway and you then get more value for money out of the install cost.

If I was you, I would get the ARB/OME 2.5" lift, grab some 31x10.5's and a set of quick disconnects and see how that goes. Then you get a nice onroad ride day to day and the capability to go a bit further offroad.

I would also recommend you change the muffler to a straight through one as this will provide a much nicer sound to the jeep and only costs around $150 fully fitted. One of the most underrated modifications that you will enjoy every time you go for a drive.

You better get over to ausjeepoffroad as well

cheers

z

maty wrote:Don't be tricked into anything else.

he he i missed that

Damn Tig u and I were both tricked into damn Clayton square long arms !!!

And worse than that... I never learned after being tricked into a 4" Teraflex setup before which only lasted 4+years inc 2x nissan trials and an outback challenge - so stoopid !

How could I have been so blind !!!

on a more helpful note I reiterate the previous posts about Tony (USA4x4) and Lexx(Jbitz) in Vic - top dudes to chat to.

And ausjeepoffroad for Jeep-specific info

Oh yeah - grab a a copy of Jeep Action Australia and US Mag JP for lots of info on Jeep suspension setups.

Good luck

Hey zulujack,

There are a HEAP of options avaliable to you for what you want. Really it comes down to budget, what are you prepared to spend and where do you want the TJ to end up.

I can fully recommend TW at USA 4x4 and of course I can recommend JBITZ ( I am part of it ). Give us a call and we can talk about what your options are and try to suit something to your budget.

The only thing I will make you wary of is that the cost with the TJ for mods is nothing like mods for the suzi, they are a little more for the TJ.

Where are you in Melb, I would be more than happy to meet up and have a chat to work out something that would suit you.

Damn! Should have hung on to the Suzi! Now I'm gonna be broke in no time at all.

What I'm after is simple. 3" (or a the least 2.5") suspension lift, with improved articultion, to fit 31"s A/Ts. I'm also looking at disconnects, and stearing dampers to go with suspension setup. As a heads up both Opposite lock and ARB could do this for around $1200-$1300.


Jack

zulujack wrote:Damn! Should have hung on to the Suzi! Now I'm gonna be broke in no time at all.

What I'm after is simple. 3" (or a the least 2.5") suspension lift, with improved articultion, to fit 31"s A/Ts. I'm also looking at disconnects, and stearing dampers to go with suspension setup. As a heads up both Opposite lock and ARB could do this for around $1200-$1300.


Jack

If you are good with a spanner and have jackstands and a good jack you can do it all yourself and save plenty of money.
Beautiful thing is you will also learn a lot more about your jeep and will be able to fix it.

There are always second hand lifts and parts on Ausjeep.
It doesnt have to be expensive

cheers

z

zulujack wrote:Damn! Should have hung on to the Suzi! Now I'm gonna be broke in no time at all.

What I'm after is simple. 3" (or a the least 2.5") suspension lift, with improved articultion, to fit 31"s A/Ts. I'm also looking at disconnects, and stearing dampers to go with suspension setup. As a heads up both Opposite lock and ARB could do this for around $1200-$1300.


Jack

PLease Zulujack don't take what I said to be that you're going to be broke, just compared to a suzi SOME things can be pricey.

Why are you looking at a steering dampener fofr only 31's?

Disconects you can easily fit yourself, not a hard job, should cost anywhere between $150-$300 depending on the brand of disco you buy.

As for a 3" lift, the simpliest way would be to go a 2" coil spacer and a 1" Body lift. There are a few different options inregards to this as well. There are alway great 2nd hand stuff going around, for example I'm pretty sure that ZZZZ has a good set of 3" coils up for sale, also I know of a good set of 2" coil spacers also hanging around.

You say that ARB and oppostie lock can do a 3" lift for $1200-$1300, what does that include and also is that fitted? Does it include new shocks?

re: steering damper - I still run the stock unit with 35"x12.5" mtr's and (previously) 34"x9.5" swampers with no probs.

The quote I got from ARB included fitting (and was strangely enough a once only offer). Not to worried about the stearing damper, more the disconnects. Just added it because Opposite Lock said they could do that for a few $s extra.

As I said before it is not neccesarily height I'm after more articultion that is better than stock, and would suit bigger wheels (either 31s or 32s). From replies sofar it seems OME is a good al round option, but I may be wrong. 3.5" sounds like it may or may not cause vibration problems later down the track (without more expensive mods). 3.5" kit with shorter springs may be an option if this can be sourced?

I'm getting the new wrangler today. Interestingly enough with the new 6 speed gear box the first gear is something like 13% smaller than on the 5 speed, so I guess the question is do you really need different gearing for 32s?

Jack

call Suburban 4x4...arr (also from ausjeepoffroad.com) or hammonds 4x4, these guys commonly deal with lifts greater than 2". they sell both ARB and rubicon equipment.

Mat

ps - sorry about the Clayton...

mate you asked for advice....So below is my honest advice and I just hope it makes some sense & I don't offend anyone.....

1. Get the Jeep,
2. Get a T55 & shifter,
3. Chuck yer recovery yer in,
4. Wheel the snot out of that rig for a little while STOCK.....

In the meantime:
A. Think about what's limiting you in the terrain you are on,
B. Think about what size tyres you utlimately want to run,
C. Make a list of the mods you want to do in the order required to fit those tyres (or address the offraod areas that you feel need improving),
D. SAVE those pennies. (and think about how much $$ you seriously can spend on your mods).....

Seriously (and I do not mean to sound like a richardhead) without a plan of what YOU want & how you'll simply waste more of your valuable time & $$$......
Also think about things like engineering & insurance.....
Now I'm more than happy to sit here rattleing of a seemingly endless list of mods but really IMHO don't just rush out and start screwing with it until you know what & how you wanna screw with it ....REMEMBER there's litterally thousands of combinations of how you can set your rig up and they vary from the fairly cheap to the bloody expensive.....and in MANY cases there are loads of opinions - but the decision needs to be made by YOU!!

OK that said....I guess budget is important....
Personally I'd stick to a 31x10.5 or goto a 33x10 - so you can keep stock rims/flares for a bit longer (also the slightly skinnier rubber has a few other advantages).
To fit these the cheapest/easiest way (not the best way) would be:
2" coils spacers - with shockies can be purchased for as little as about $400.
1" BL & I'd probably slip in a 1" MML (saves screwing about with the fan shroud and helps driveline vibs)....These can be purchased for less than $400......
Set of decent Discos can be purchased for $250.......
Fit it yourself to save some $$$ and then youre away.....for just over $1k....
If you go the 33"s you'll wanna adjust the bump stops down a touch more.



Now do you want the expensive version

Thanks for the advice mate!

I think it is safe to say that I don't want to spend more than I nead to, but that being said I havelearned the hard way if you go the cheap option up front you'll only get to a stage where you want to upgrade any way, later down the track, and you actually end up spending more.

I don't want to change the stock rims, and I have pretty much decided to settle on 31s. The suspension lift is not simply to get bigger wheels on, but rather for improved performance on the rough stuff + added confidence.

My current view is that I should be able to get 2.5-3" kit for $900-$1300, depending if it is fitted or not. And around $400-$600 used (anybody know of used lift kits?).

I went through enoug trouble getting insurance that covers me for more than 2" of left, and made sure that it does not affect my new car warranty. Al I have to make sure of is that I get a certificate if required, and not get a dodgy setup that will ware my new car out.

Jack

best lift would be about 2" and 31 x 10.5 tyres and dont forget the trasmission spacers this gives you ample ground clearance and a great look with out going over the top.Also doesnt increase your centre of gravity to much + keeps road handling . Add a locking diff and disconnects and you get an awsome off roader

I agree with Wooders

How much easier my life would have been if I was handy with the spanners!

Took the new Jeep out for th efirst time this weekend, just to get the new car shine off it. Goes alright! Bit worried about the clearance at the back, may have to do something about the rear bumper/mudflap configuration.

Does any body have any faith in the stock traction controll system (LSD), and how does this compare to running lockers. Stock seems to grip alright in the mud and slippery stones. That is compared to a Suzi any way.

The rear trashlok aren't that bad....but it's no locker

as for the rear - yup that's a vunerable area....the skid over the fuel tank is just thick foil and your fuel pump (expensive) is right at the bottom of the tank waiting for a love tap from a friendly rock.

A fuel skid (Kilby or Warn) is a great mod as it not only add much needed thickness, but also lifts the tank by about ¾".....but these require a 1" BL to work properly (fuel lines etc)...and if you have stock springs the extra weight can cause the rear to sit lower......

Wooders wrote:A fuel skid (Kilby or Warn) is a great mod as it not only add much needed thickness, but also lifts the tank by about ¾".....but these require a 1" BL to work properly (fuel lines etc)...and if you have stock springs the extra weight can cause the rear to sit lower......

also consider supporting a local aussie made skid from calbah...! at least i think they make one