Outer Limits 4x4 Board

any one here ever put a rotery in a sierra i'm thinking of doing it but at the moment I can't find a cheap enough engine do you guys think a 12A rotery would be the go I would probably have to change the gearing around and my diffs.

Have a look at Izook.com One of the editors there has a 12a powered Zuk .. Also check out
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/UPDATES/UPDATES.HTML

Was using a newer rotary but scrapped it in favour of a mitsu engine .. as the rotarys gearbox was way to long ..

All the later model Maxda gearboxes are too long, all the rx5 & earlier 5 & 4 speeds are shite, you'd have to hook it up to a supra 5 spd or corona 4 speed, both are plenty strong enough, i'm just not sure of the length.

bigsteve wrote:All the later model Maxda gearboxes are too long, all the rx5 & earlier 5 & 4 speeds are shite, you'd have to hook it up to a supra 5 spd or corona 4 speed, both are plenty strong enough, i'm just not sure of the length.

Are you saying that an RX5 gearbox is shit? Your not serious are you? A corona 4spd is way weaker than one of these.

RUFF wrote:

bigsteve wrote:All the later model Maxda gearboxes are too long, all the rx5 & earlier 5 & 4 speeds are shite, you'd have to hook it up to a supra 5 spd or corona 4 speed, both are plenty strong enough, i'm just not sure of the length.

Are you saying that an RX5 gearbox is shit? Your not serious are you? A corona 4spd is way weaker than one of these.

I think the RX-5 ones are pretty ordinary, my first 5 speed in my club car was rx5, I replaced it with am rx7 one. I cant speak from personal experience with the corona gearboxes but I can think of a couple of drag cars in vic & nsw that have run them.

I used to have a Series 1 RX7 running a Bridge port 13B with a 48mmIDA Webber, long primary pipes, 3" exhast, full race button clutch, 4.44 diff gears. It first had series 1 5spds but would clean snap the input shaft on hard 3rd gear changes so i went S4 turbo box and started destroying gear sets. I then bought an RX 5 5spd and had no probs for at least 8 months before i sold the car.
I had a mate with an RX3 that was running the corona box mainly for the gear ratios as these are a lot better spaced than the mazda box's and he broke 2 in the time i had the RX5 box.
I beleive most guys run the toyota box for the ratios not the strength.
I know PAC were running stock 929 4SPDs in there yellow RX3 a few years ago and would replace it after every pass at major events just incase they had damaged it in any way.



I think the best box to use in a rotory conversion in a zook would be the 3spd Jatco auto as this would allow it to lug down a lot lower in the stuff you want to crawl but still allow good acceloration when needed.

why would you want to. Seriously consider gearing ahead of a whiz bang high hp hi gh revving engine. Try for a more sedate engine combined with lower gearing to give a better balanced and drivable rig offroad. The minute you start placing high revs offroad you are going to lead to some strange situations

Done it!
would do it again tooo..
heaps of torque , and wide rev range , awesome if you have crawlers so then you can idle up and give it without changin cogs.....
easy fix buy a $200 adapter and bolt it up to a hilux box and tcase
piss easy and fits sweet.



i used a 13b pp (racing beat engine) 300+hp
just way too wild for what you need, a 13b turbo would be the bomb
as for torque these baby's have nearly 200ft/lbs from 2500-7800 rpm no other motor has such a wide even power curve

Sounds good to me...

I am getting ideas for a new engine for my Zuk as I have a feeling mine wont make it through this winter due to high revving abuse .. and that fact its been abused allot in the past ...

Rotaries have always intruiged me .. so if its that easy .. it may be a goer ...

Any possability of using a toy auto behind one.. Much easier in the wife politics if it's an auto so that she may be able to drive as well ...


Guy

which b/h adaptor is it? where from?

maztech sell them as well as pac
just get a supra adapter and then use a rx4 b/h
will fit most w series toy boxes
toy autos are way too hard to fit, i had a s2 rx7 auto and std suzi tcase, heaps of grunt

Thanks

That sounds sweet.. may start a scrounge for a good 13b .. and RX4 bellhousing .. mmm Turbo Zuki ..

I will need to get Da DOOF DOOF system to go with the exhaust note and then get a rhemus 4inch tip on da Zuki mate... doyaknow whatI'msayenmate it will be ful sik ...

yeah rang them
they want $300 for a bellhousing adaptor which is a bit much
they don't even make them, some other mob do

N*A*M wrote:yeah rang them
they want $300 for a bellhousing adaptor which is a bit much
they don't even make them, some other mob do

WTF thats new and you want $400 for your second hand bellhousing

Im not saying you are wanting too much im saying that $300 is way cheap.


Greg i need to talk to you about this conversion because me and Sam will be the ones doing it for "THE MAN". Along with Hilux Diffs, power steer and full exo cage.

Ok Ruff ,don't run away -- Im was doing some gearbox research for a mate wanting to go from a jatco 3 speed to a four speed jatco, the rumour is the jatco four speed uses the same box to bellhousing patern in 3 and 4 speed any idea?
Larry.

PS: these things are supose to be a copy of a C4 , Ford RULes

Yes Larry they are the same the four speed just uses an adapter that houses the 4th gear. VL commodores run the same auto. Remove the addapter and i beleive you can bolt the bellhoising back on and have a 3spd.

And yes they are based on a C4 but have some stronger parts and also some weaker parts. A mate actually runs a Jatco planitary gear set in his C4.



Oh and FOrd SUck

Hahah sneaky devils arn't they, Thanks ruff !!!
Interesting concept all round


And Yes FORDS SUCK THE BREATH OUT OF YA WHEN THEY PASS YA !!!

my asking price is obviously negotiable but i'm thinking i'll hang on to it considering what it would cost me to replace.

I agree with grimbo, a high revving engine in a 4wd is a no-no unless you plan to do some high speed work like rallies etc. However, i think the suzuki would handle such an engine well due to it's light weight. The ideal rock/mud crawler would have torque way down low like a diesel. Was it OTIS in 4WD Monthly that had a commodore V6 transplant? That'd be nice - if it fits ok.

Jeeps wrote:I agree with grimbo, a high revving engine in a 4wd is a no-no unless you plan to do some high speed work like rallies etc. However, i think the suzuki would handle such an engine well due to it's light weight. The ideal rock/mud crawler would have torque way down low like a diesel. Was it OTIS in 4WD Monthly that had a commodore V6 transplant? That'd be nice - if it fits ok.

I believe my new motor (F6A) is going to rev pretty high (redlines around 10,000 i think)... but i will be using it with an overall crawl ratio of 106:1 so it may work, it may not work...

Either way, i'll let you all know how it's goes when its done.

rev-ability is good because then you can utilize gearing.
wide/low torque is good if you have poor final drive ratios.

i don't think it's bad at all. if you got an engine that redlines at 5krpm, you'd be boucing off the limiter it pretty quick in low gears. get one with a higher rev ceiling and you could stay in gear for longer.

go greg! go the kei turbos! go the rotors! 8)

the rotors are not know for there high touque (essecially when they use as much fuel as a V 8 )
but they are a very light engine and combined with the lightness of a zook i reckon you could pull it off
also will draw attention for the strange exuast note

go hard and let us know how it goes
could be a cool (relatively cheap) option as there are plenty sitting around writen off
only problem is things like service cost, lack of knowleldge e.g most people could trail fix a carby 4,6 or 8, still penty more can fix efi, but most peolpe get very confused when it comes to rotors
just something to remember but if it is a trailer queen who cares
camo

I have been doing som e surfing and I really think that rotaries get a really bad wrap in general, especiallly as far as torque goes. Once modified . they have got bugger all low down oomph, but in stock form they are more than acceptable .. and more than a match for the 1.3 or commomnly swapped in 1.6 .. A 13 B produces mroe torque at all points of the rev range than a 1.6 that includes the much vaunted 16v 1.6.

The motor itself is not that bad on fuel compared to a hard working 1.6 (My 1.6 can drink 40 litres in 150 to 180 kms if I am giving it a bootfull).

Its also a very "low" motor meaninmg it can be mounted quite low in the engine bay to help reduce the COG ..

Only one real way to find out how well it will work I guess .. Some one is going to have to do it ... and shower all the nay sayers in mud .. or end up as filler in a bog hole

As for iron blocked V6's .. Hmm plenty of torque ... easy to get parts for .. be a nightmare to descend hills in .. not even all that good to climb with as to much weight up front is as bad as to little in an otherwise light truck ..

It think i'd like to see it done. It would certainly get some attention and i like the idea of the 10,000rpm limit. Will the engine handle being knocked around in a small 4wd?

camo wrote: peolpe get very confused when it comes to rotors
just something to remember but if it is a trailer queen who cares
camo

My Zuk will never be a traileer queen .. never damit .. unless I decide to make it a half track

As it wont be a daily driver .. the motor would only have to hold together for 500kms a month or so.

Camo,
what the hell do you mean no torque.
my 13bpp put out more torque (on an engine dyno) at idle than my 1600 suzuki big blok at its peak. And you put in 1600's cus they have heaps more torque.....
as ruff will tell you too even a radicaly ported rotor has 6cyl'ish torque down low , in thier day these things stock used to kick the butts of 2.8ltr nissan 6's.
no torque, typical comment
try one with 200+ft/lbs and 70:1 you can break shit all day long,
POS helped me do the final bits to mine and at 1500rpm i could sit and spin both 32/11.5 bfgs in the concrete shed floor with ease, now that was cool fun. do that with a stock suzi motor below 2000
Ruff i can help you with all the info and parts if you want, give me a call.

Jeeps wrote:It think i'd like to see it done. It would certainly get some attention and i like the idea of the 10,000rpm limit. Will the engine handle being knocked around in a small 4wd?

I believe this was directed at me...

the F6A and K6A are both available in the sierra (jimny) in Japan... have been for ages apparently... so yeah, i'm hopeful that all will be good

Jeeps wrote:I agree with grimbo, a high revving engine in a 4wd is a no-no unless you plan to do some high speed work like rallies etc. However, i think the suzuki would handle such an engine well due to it's light weight. The ideal rock/mud crawler would have torque way down low like a diesel. Was it OTIS in 4WD Monthly that had a commodore V6 transplant? That'd be nice - if it fits ok.

Have you ever heard about gearing???

Or was this another thing you were not interested in when you chose your Jeep over a Toyota. Just like you were not interested in capabilities or parts availability

Have you ever heard about gearing???

RUFF,
yes i have, and believe me - the wrangler needs it desperately for offroad use. 2003 model wranglers & US models have better gearing than my 2002. This is evident in just the diff gearing alone:
XJ has 3.55's
1997-2002 TJ has 3.07's
2003 TJ has 3.73's
US TJ's have 3.73's
Obviously 3.73 is a better choice and this has been proven as my mate's 2003 TJ is EXTREMELY slower at crawl and the engine performs marginally better.

I believe this thread was about the engine and not the gearing that would be used. If you think that gearing alone will make a torqueless, high revving engine a good crawler than you are blinded. If this were the case, why not keep a 1.3 or better yet, transplant a 0.98L engine from a charade. Surely when re-geared, this will out-perform a re-geared commodore V6 powerplant? I think not. As i stated above, i think it would be a good transplant and something i would like to see. The low weight of the suzi should work in it's favour and produce good performance as long as the long gearbox throw that some rotaries require is not a problem.

Or was this another thing you were not interested in when you chose your Jeep over a Toyota. Just like you were not interested in capabilities or parts availability

I chose the TJ because it's one of the most capable 4wd under 40k that has probably the strongest components, i spent $32,000 on my TJ (onroads incl.) and it was excellent value for money. When i went shopping i believed a Hilux would have the best offroad performance but the lack of seating/engine performance/solid axles/fun factor would be better with something not so 'ordinary'. I still believe a stock hilux will go further than a stock wrangler for 2 reasons. 1) Higher ground clearance due to the very flimsey bashplate - the wranglers is huge and strong but reduces ground clearance, 2) Fuel consumption by the wrangler is enormous and the hilux will run out of fuel further down the track etc.
Let's see how many other 4wd's you can list under $32,000 that have front/rear solid axles (toyota does not) - better yet, how many that have low range. I still believe the wrangler is excellent value for money, extremely capable even if a hilux may be slightly better. The wrangler stomps all over a hilux for enjoyment.

love_mud, my apologies for hijacking your thread.

Jeeps wrote:

Have you ever heard about gearing???

.

I believe this thread was about the engine and not the gearing that would be used. If you think that gearing alone will make a torqueless, high revving engine a good crawler than you are blinded. If this were the case, why not keep a 1.3 or better yet, transplant a 0.98L engine from a charade. Surely when re-geared, this will out-perform a re-geared commodore V6 powerplant? I think not. As i stated above, i think it would be a good transplant and something i would like to see. The low weight of the suzi should work in it's favour and produce good performance as long as the long gearbox throw that some rotaries require is not a problem.

Do you realy have any idea what you are talking about?


I think you need to go and cook some more pizza's pizza boy