Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I finally did my first oil/filter change on my TD42 powered GQ Patrol last night and I've got some observations (and a question).

* Firstly, used diesel oil is truly horrible stuff (stains your hands and anything else it touches if it's even remotely porous etc).
* Secondly, the location of the oil filters on my engine leaves a lot to be desired. Or, more correctly, the location of stuff underneath the filters leaves a lot to be desired.

Is there a 'clean' way to remove these filters? IE. without pouring oil all over the side of the engine, the uni behind the front diff and anything else that's in the way? On my RX7 (many years ago), I used to have to punch a hole in the end of the filter before removing it, so that it would adequately drain and could then be taken off without spewing oil everywhere. Is there a similar trick that can be used on these TD42's?

Anyway, it's now quieter than it was before (even when I first picked it up and they had supposedly just done an oil/filter change) and the oil light goes off almost instantly again, so all is well

cover the diffs etc with newspaper

use a plastic bag on your hand when you remove the drain plug to keep the oil off your hand

be really quick with the removal of the oil filter, and then degrease after the change. You can shape an old ice cream container to suit the underside of the filter section to catch the runoff, but not a lot of room.

drain the engine oil from sump.

Start the engine - engine idling pump the oil out of the filters... kill engine as soon as pressure gauge drops.

No spilling at all. Have tried, does work.

Disclaimer:
DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK

bogged wrote:drain the engine oil from sump.

Start the engine - engine idling pump the oil out of the filters... kill engine as soon as pressure gauge drops.

No spilling at all. Have tried, does work.

Disclaimer:
DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK

Nice one! I never even considered something like that. I don't have a pressure gauge though.......might be time to fit one. Any excuse for new bits and an afternoon's tinkering

try doing it on the latest intercooled TD42Ti..... there is so much more crap in the engine bay!

you undo the filters form the top, then have to drop the filter down , sit it on the chassis rail, climb under truck and pull the filter thru to the ground

repeat on filter # 2

then reinstall by pushing filter up from floor, climb onto pile of shit to stand on bend over and pull filter up thru the bay passed all the crap and feed it back under the firewall tot he back filter spindle

The warning light will come on.
I also used to use a plastic bag laid over diff
area and a large tray on ground.

Bazzle

Purly for your amusment:
Why worry about a bit of oil spilled on the block and diff??
After every oil change i mix up a couple of liters of the old oil with some Kerosene to thin it down a bit and spray the chassis, diffs and the under body with it.
Why throw away 10L off oil??

anyone who starts a Diesel with no oil in it is a fool!!!!
Cleaning up the mess of a small bit of spilled oil is far better than an engine rebuild...

kempster1 wrote:anyone who starts a Diesel with no oil in it is a fool!!!!

I got the tip from a bloke on the GQ forum with an 89 model, who had done it for over 660,000klms that he owned the truck.. Yup, truly a fool..
The engine only runs for 5-8 seconds

I just stick a bunch of rag under the filters when removing them. Not much mess to clean up after.

bogged wrote:

kempster1 wrote:anyone who starts a Diesel with no oil in it is a fool!!!!

I got the tip from a bloke on the GQ forum with an 89 model, who had done it for over 660,000klms that he owned the truck.. Yup, truly a fool..
The engine only runs for 5-8 seconds

Yes and there is 5-8 seconds of white metal removed from the bearings evry time also.
Running and engine with no oil is not a good thing to do!!!!

bogged wrote:drain the engine oil from sump.

Start the engine - engine idling pump the oil out of the filters... kill engine as soon as pressure gauge drops.

No spilling at all. Have tried, does work.

Disclaimer:
DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK

Bogged must have smoked somthing before answering!

DO NOT try this even for 2 seconds!

I would rather just have to wash engine after oil changes,simple really!!!

hienuf wrote:Bogged must have smoked somthing before answering!

DO NOT try this even for 2 seconds!

Why? theres enough oil residue in the engine.. You dont change the oil cold do you? EG leave car over night, then drain oil without warming up the engine...? As I said, its only seconds, and if the Ange has had no issues in 600k klms on his second patrol, I see no issues.

YMMV

kempster1 wrote:Yes and there is 5-8 seconds of white metal removed from the bearings evry time also.
Running and engine with no oil is not a good thing to do!!!!

I realise your from Tasmania, but you dont change the oil cold do you? EG: leave car over night, then drain oil without warming up the engine...?
Then theres enough oil residue in the engine, on bearings, on everything.. Theres not a bunch of little ooma loompas runnign round inside the engine cleaning every bearing, piston, etc instantly the micronano second you turn the key off. It doesnt disappear that fast.

Then there would be ample oil everywhere to run the thing for more than 20 secs + without an issue. As I said, if ange can do it for 600k klms without an issue, I see no problem.


YBIM.

Does that mean there is 2 seconds of white metal removed on start up every morning before oil light goes out? Don`t think so. Old British Seagull two stroke engines run day and night on plain bearings and nothing but a film of oil although I`m not telling anyone to do it.
Alex

bogged wrote:

kempster1 wrote:Yes and there is 5-8 seconds of white metal removed from the bearings evry time also.
Running and engine with no oil is not a good thing to do!!!!

I realise your from Tasmania, but you dont change the oil cold do you? EG: leave car over night, then drain oil without warming up the engine...?
Then theres enough oil residue in the engine, on bearings, on everything.. Theres not a bunch of little ooma loompas runnign round inside the engine cleaning every bearing, piston, etc instantly the micronano second you turn the key off. It doesnt disappear that fast.

Then there would be ample oil everywhere to run the thing for more than 20 secs + without an issue. As I said, if ange can do it for 600k klms without an issue, I see no problem.


YBIM.

Yes I currently lived in Tassie, and I lived in the NT for 22 years also but that has nothing to do with how a white metal bearing works.
You are need a filming of oil between the crankshaft and the whitemetal bearing to prevent wear.
If you start an engine without oil pressure this film of oil will "instantly" dissappear and damage "will" happen to the crankshaft and the bearings.

lexi wrote:Does that mean there is 2 seconds of white metal removed on start up every morning before oil light goes out? Don`t think so. Old British Seagull two stroke engines run day and night on plain bearings and nothing but a film of oil although I`m not telling anyone to do it.
Alex

Most bearing wear takes place in the first few revolutions at start up, this is why good quality oil filters that screw on in the horizontal postion will have a one way valve in them to keep the time down for building up oil pressure.

You also need to go and read a good book on how the lubrication in a two stroke engine works.

well my brand new 4.2 takes 5 seconds for the oil light to go out every time i start it.

mine must be fucked with 9000kms on it then hey!

the bearings must be worn away now with the crank floating in the caps

roly wrote:well my brand new 4.2 takes 5 seconds for the oil light to go out every time i start it.

mine must be ***** with 9000kms on it then hey!

the bearings must be worn away now with the crank floating in the caps

If I had a new car that took a full five seconds for the oil light to go off, I would be taking it back to the dealer!!!!

My farmer neighbours recommended this same approach for removing the last dregs of oil out of the sump. Not sure about 5 to 8 seconds I think it was more like a couple of seconds. They ran several hundred thousand dollars of diesel machinery (tractors, trucks, 4bs)and were highly respected as diesel mechanics.
I recall losing a sump plug off a petrol vehicle and it would have driven a couple of klms with no oil before the missus noticed the light. I know how far it traveled because I followed the oil trail the next day. That vehicle is still going today some 200,000 klms later on the same donk.

kempster1 wrote:

roly wrote:well my brand new 4.2 takes 5 seconds for the oil light to go out every time i start it.

mine must be ***** with 9000kms on it then hey!

the bearings must be worn away now with the crank floating in the caps

If I had a new car that took a full five seconds for the oil light to go off, I would be taking it back to the dealer!!!!

most of them do it...

do you own a TD42?

No, I am just a diesel fitter/mech with 17 years experience.
I leave you guys to this tread with a final statement.
I would never run one of my engines or customers engine with no oil pressure!!!

Couldn't agree more!!!!
Its not so much about oil still being present in the galleries and coating the bearings, its the lack of pressure not providing the cushioning in say the mains and big ends for example.
Its just not good practise!!!!!!

i wouldnt run my diesel with no oil in it either. however, i was told once by a very well respected mechanic that to clean an engine you can put a mixture of moter oil and diesel fuel in it and run it for about 30 secs. that was for a petrol engine though, not to sure about doing it in a diesel. one of the diesel mechanics might be able to confirm this........

kempster1 wrote:If you start an engine without oil pressure this film of oil will "instantly" dissappear and damage "will" happen to the crankshaft and the bearings.

Didnt in over 600,000klms mate did it, so someones full of shit, and his car is still going..

kempster1 wrote:... this is why good quality oil filters that screw on in the horizontal postion will have a one way valve in them to keep the time down for building up oil pressure..

Coopers are a good quality filter, and they dont. There are 2 other "GOOD QUALITY" brands that dont too.

kempster1 wrote:No, I am just a diesel fitter/mech with 17 years experience.

Do you have no idea what yout talking about with GQ engines.. thought so.

mauricem wrote:Not sure about 5 to 8 seconds I think it was more like a couple of seconds..

anything from 1second, up to about what feels like 8 seconds.. I'll get the stopwatch out next time, and count it down to .0000000000000000000000000000001 to make sure.

Jeezus Bogged you just cant give up when you are wrong can you?

Just admit it, because you are looking sillier with every reply


BTW the comment you made which started all the flaming was the silliest thing you have said yet!!

mkpatrol wrote:Jeezus Bogged you just cant give up when you are wrong can you

It maybe your opinion that Im wrong.. Dilligaf?

Again, if it lasted Ange since 1989 doing it every oil change with the car having 600,000klms on it, it cant hurt can it? No, didnt think so.

bogged wrote:

mkpatrol wrote:Jeezus Bogged you just cant give up when you are wrong can you

It maybe your opinion that Im wrong.. Dilligaf?

Again, if it lasted Ange since 1989 doing it every oil change with the car having 600,000klms on it, it cant hurt can it? No, didnt think so.

I live with the spilt oil, but don't see a prob with Bruce' approach......after all, the damage that occurs every morning would render the once in 5k issue irrelivent.........once again I must resign the the fact I actually agree with Bruce

interesting discussion. there is merit to both sides of the argument i think.

keep it technical. if it degenerates into personal hacking it will get deleted.

bogged wrote: Dilligaf?

I speak english not nerd.