Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hi all,
i just brought some modified toyota to landrover axels (S111 109) front and rear off e-bay. Is it possible to turn the centers 180 degrees to give me a tight arse high pinion option. If i swap front and rear centers and rotate both 180 will this work ?

only problem i could think of was pinion bearing lube. Can a sealed bearing be fitted instead?

sorry if this is a dumb arse newby question.

Lube to pinion bearings is a problem. Never seen a sealed taper roller bearing.

Oiling is the least of your worries. If you do this the truck will drive backwards - the front and rear diffs are exactly the same if they are both low pinion (so swapping front-back won't make a difference). Even if you could make it drive forward, the CW&P's would be running on the coast side of the gears when driving forwards, so would be very weak.

There is no way you could get this to drive in the right direction unless you made the engine rotate in the reverse direction or turned the engine, gearbox and t-case around so the rear drive went to the front and vice versa.

thanks for that. off to sims metal i go !

You'd be able to go backwards pretty quick though!

is this how they got the italian WW2 tanks to work?

up2nogood wrote:You'd be able to go backwards pretty quick though!

Then you just need to sit on the spare tyre (on the bonnet) to drive like in "the gods must be crazy".

Heres a thought, how about an lc 80 hp front fitted to the rear ?

Loanrangie wrote:Heres a thought, how about an lc 80 hp front fitted to the rear ?

Hp in rear = Boom!

I asked the same question a few months ago and got flamed

HP has all its strengh in the forward direction because of the way the gear is cut (reverse rotation ?)

John or Ben shoudl be able to provide a better (much ) explanation.

Dave.

these things are next to bloody useless then. i might see if i can off load them to the toyo mob.

popeye wrote:these things are next to bloody useless then. i might see if i can off load them to the toyo mob.

Why next to useless, there is nothing wrong with low pinion centres, you just can't put a low pinion in a coil sprung LR without a modified track rod. A low pinion in the front will still be quite strong in the forward direction.

popeye wrote:these things are next to bloody useless then. i might see if i can off load them to the toyo mob.

The Hilux guys dont seem to have an issue. Dont get to hung up on the ultimate strengths and ideals, just have fun making it and get out and drive it. I assume you have a series landy with those axles, and if this is correct the low pinion centres should go in. I mean if you are going to sell them off again it only leaves you with the "extra strong" factory stuff.

yeah its the rear i've got probs with. I need a rear hp to give me a better drive shaft angle and to fix a x-member clearance problem. the front shaft angle is already pretty high and i doubt a low pinion would be practicle. Although i might look at replaceing the front rover axels and unijoints to the toy axels and cv's but i assume it would be easier and cheaper to fit a complete stage 1 front. The toy stuff i got is only shitty 45 series (i think) with drum brakes. I doubt its any stronger than the stage one stuff.

popeye wrote:yeah its the rear i've got probs with. I need a rear hp to give me a better drive shaft angle and to fix a x-member clearance problem. the front shaft angle is already pretty high and i doubt a low pinion would be practicle. Although i might look at replaceing the front rover axels and unijoints to the toy axels and cv's but i assume it would be easier and cheaper to fit a complete stage 1 front. The toy stuff i got is only shitty 45 series (i think) with drum brakes. I doubt its any stronger than the stage one stuff.

The diff centres probably will be but the other stuff will be on par.

The only difference is that stage 1 CVS are much harder to find. Toyo stuff is easy.

Look at fitting MQ/MK nissan patrol stuff - easy, cheap and strong. They have fron disks and are a bit wider than the toy stuff. Not all that much required

Dave.

thanks for your help i will hang on to them for a bit and see what can be done.

BTW only paid $26 for them so i'm not going to loose too much sleep.

popeye wrote:yeah its the rear i've got probs with. I need a rear hp to give me a better drive shaft angle and to fix a x-member clearance problem. the front shaft angle is already pretty high and i doubt a low pinion would be practicle. Although i might look at replaceing the front rover axels and unijoints to the toy axels and cv's but i assume it would be easier and cheaper to fit a complete stage 1 front. The toy stuff i got is only shitty 45 series (i think) with drum brakes. I doubt its any stronger than the stage one stuff.

If you have a SIII 109 it should already have a Salisbury in the rear, which is extremely strong, and also low pinion. The propshaft angle should be fine, but you can rotate the nose of the diff up if it is a problem (by fitting off the shelf wedges between the springs and the axle), rather than fitting a high pinion. You can also "notch" or "clearance" the crossmember - I assume you are talking about the one the rear prop passes through. Mine rubs the crosmember on full articulation and I will be clearancing it when I get back to OZ and start driving it again.

If you can find a Stage one front and fit it with a 4.7 ratio it will be ok but still not much of an improvement. The CV's are strong but the ring and pinion is weak and the 10 spline inner axles (diff end) will need upgrading if you want serious strength. The stage 1 front end in my truck has held up quite well to 33's, but I only have a 2.25 Diesel at the moment (I have broken a 4.7 ring and pinion though).

If you ran a Hi pinion LC80 front diff in the rear couldn't you just fit Low pinion gears so they aren't revrse cut ??

I'm not sure if the tooth cut will let the pinion mesh in that position???

On that I have not found a definitive answer yet.

makes sense but dont if it will work.
Michael.

If lux centres are the same front and rear, why wouldnt 2 fronts work? The lc 80 HP front is the same other than being HP?

HP front is reverse cut so in the rear it will be driving on coast side teeth.

Housing slightly different I believe. Could be wrong here.

Have not had time to see if it will fit std gear set into HP housing there by giving a hp rear,

Michael.

A few of the buggies in the US run the HP centres in the rear. But not a lot of weight to worry about so running on the coast side of the diff should not be much of a problem.

Maggot4x4 wrote:A few of the buggies in the US run the HP centres in the rear. But not a lot of weight to worry about so running on the coast side of the diff should not be much of a problem.

Yes but these buggies run either Dana 60's (which are so strong it doesn't matter which side you run on), or the new, specially made reverse cut hi9 (for 9"). They don't run toyota stuff (not that I have seen anyway).

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Maggot4x4 wrote:A few of the buggies in the US run the HP centres in the rear. But not a lot of weight to worry about so running on the coast side of the diff should not be much of a problem.

Yes but these buggies run either Dana 60's (which are so strong it doesn't matter which side you run on), or the new, specially made reverse cut hi9 (for 9"). They don't run toyota stuff (not that I have seen anyway).

It was a while back, but there was a green buggy that won Top Truck that ran toy HP 8" in the rear

Yes I have read where a few bugies run this but cant see it lasting in thne RR
MIchael.

DAS wrote:If you ran a Hi pinion LC80 front diff in the rear couldn't you just fit Low pinion gears so they aren't revrse cut ??

No, it will rotate the axles in reverse.