Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys I just flicked through a superdodgy catalogue and notice sup cheap 12V winches that i think may do the job.

I was considering on of the too found on the page i scaned and attached.

Wierd thing is the boat one claim more pull at a cheaper price I am asking will the $119 winch be enough to use over each diff to pull it down on inclines and decents ? ? ?

I was thinking to set it up as a double line pull so that it was under less load when winchin in

WAT DO YOU PROFESSIONALS RECON


Cheers
Anthony

The way I see it for $240... if they will be adequate to do the job its good value Just hoping to get sume feedback and hopefully someone has maybe used one of these b4 and can inform me on how good/crap they are.

I used a Warn 1500Lb winch on the rear of my buggy. It did work quite a few times but packed it in just before Werock. I paid $370.00 for it, i am not to concerned that it farked up as i know it has a good warrenty on it.

I think it was mainly due to using stell cable and not a rope. The rope is a little more absorbant and should take out a lot of the shock loading.

I think Boof from toowoomba tried one of the supercheap winches and it worked ok. Not sure on what sort of Warenty you would get with it though.

I think Dave (Beebee) tried a Supercheap one and it wouldn't winch it down enough, i am sure he now has a 1500Lb Warn.

You also need to consider that most of the buggy's with this set-up have a fairly soft spring rate and compressing them is a lot less load than what i imagine your Rangie springs would be.

I say try it as long as they have a warenty, if they don't spend the xtra 200 and get a Warn.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=43191

i was thinking the same.

Here is a thread from Queensland Rockcrawlershttp://rockcrawlingqld.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93
It goes into this a bit and greg mentions a 2500lb winch with double line pull. I saw him a tough truck as well and he also mentions the super crap winch would be OK.

Double line pull might be an idea... Would make life easier on the winch.

I think the boat winch (2000lbs) is rated for pulling, not lifting (some winches have dodgy ratings like this). i.e. it can pull a 2000lb boat along a beach but I doubt it could lift 2000lbs.

Sorry, double post...

well there is a few pros and cons so far...

I am still leaning towards it and am def gonna set it up as double line pull. Am maybe even considering shock loading the diff mount with a small stiff spring cause as POS mention the heavy loading and unloading onto the line caused the winch damage.

I totaly skipped by that other thread

Can't offer any real advice if the supercheap winch will actually do the job but my experience with them is that they will stand by their warranties. They ended up forking out over $120 for a $5 ezout for me so kudos to them for that.

I agree with POS though, RR springs will have a higher rate than buggies so keep this in mind with what other people are using.

The cheaper winches (supercheap included) don't have a brake. They will pull the vehicle down fine but then just rebound. A double (or more) line pull reduces the rebound as does running the cable/rope over steel instead of a pully but after trying both supercheap and t-max, I ended up getting a Warn from ARB Southside in Brisbane. So far it has worked just as expected.

Out of interest, I set up a soliniod pack similar to the larger warn winches (using starter soliniods) so I can trigger it at a low current. The switch on the side of the motor didn't suit my purpose so I now have a switch in the cab as well as on the rear.

thanks beebee,
basically what your saying is they will unroll the load fairly quickly cause the way i see it with out a brake they cant hold the load at all so they will just pop straight back up after i stop winching in

pop down to bunnings and pick up a GMC boat winch they will have a 3 year warenty like all gmc stuff which is all good just don't mod the winch.

Matt

Does your rangie really need it tiger?

ISUZUROVER wrote:Double line pull might be an idea... Would make life easier on the winch.

I think the boat winch (2000lbs) is rated for pulling, not lifting (some winches have dodgy ratings like this). i.e. it can pull a 2000lb boat along a beach but I doubt it could lift 2000lbs.

there is no difference from the winches point of view O_O

beebee wrote:The cheaper winches (supercheap included) don't have a brake. They will pull the vehicle down fine but then just rebound. A double (or more) line pull reduces the rebound as does running the cable/rope over steel instead of a pully but after trying both supercheap and t-max, I ended up getting a Warn from ARB Southside in Brisbane. So far it has worked just as expected.

Out of interest, I set up a soliniod pack similar to the larger warn winches (using starter soliniods) so I can trigger it at a low current. The switch on the side of the motor didn't suit my purpose so I now have a switch in the cab as well as on the rear.

hey Dave how much did u pay 4 the Warn ????

hypolux wrote:

beebee wrote:The cheaper winches (supercheap included) don't have a brake. They will pull the vehicle down fine but then just rebound. A double (or more) line pull reduces the rebound as does running the cable/rope over steel instead of a pully but after trying both supercheap and t-max, I ended up getting a Warn from ARB Southside in Brisbane. So far it has worked just as expected.

Out of interest, I set up a soliniod pack similar to the larger warn winches (using starter soliniods) so I can trigger it at a low current. The switch on the side of the motor didn't suit my purpose so I now have a switch in the cab as well as on the rear.

hey Dave how much did u pay 4 the Warn ????

Retail of $388 for a 1700lb from ARB - that's what I paid.

Plus the $60 or so putting the soliniod pack together which is still wraped up in tape in a lunch box behind my seats

ok cool, i mite have 2 invest in one of these maybe even 2

I think the thing that will kill these winches will be the shockloading from the suspension. im sure that hitting bumps will easily shock load the winch with more than its rated power.

Perhaps you could setup a chain to hold the diff up and you just use the winch to pull it down. Obviously this is less desirable but if it means prolonged life of the diff its probably a worthwhile move?

This would also mean that the supercheap winches can be used just as effectively as the arb winch.

On a wagon this will be a pita to link the chain, but on a buggy or tray back it may not be such a challenge?

Another option would be to set up a bigg ass ratchet strap that you can crank down. Im not sure how much load these will take but i know some of the bigger ones are rated at up to 15000 pounds, think this is breaking strength tho.


This is going to take some manual effort, but not alot really and it will be much cheaper and last indefinantly?
http://goodoutdoors.theshoppe.com/ratch ... raps_.html
http://www.bmackay.com.au/bamuniversal/tiedowns.html

the bigger ones often cost up to $80 each, which i guess is most of the cost of one of these winches, but perhaps more suited to the job?

Hate to be a Noob,

but do you use these winches to compress your suspension, how does this help?

Lower centre of gravity when you are going up steep incline/decline, helps stop you from rolling or flipping the car.

Guys to be totally honest with you, i see no need for a rig that is used for hard wheeling to have this type of set-up.

Nine time out of Ten it is going to get you in more trouble than what its worth. You can Roll a buggy (or any rig with this set-up) especially on a severe crossed up situation just by letting out to much winch or winching in to quickly.

Also for normal rigs winching in on climbs, this will not be that much of an advantage as the incline is not that steep anyway. I am not saying that its not steep but the buggys use this when climbing near verticle walls.

By all meens set it up, but i don't see it helping a trail rig as much as it does a buggy!

I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

POS wrote:I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

please explain this further

I dont just want this for steep accent/decents, the main reason i wanted to set this up was for side slope as if i compress the suspension in effect it will be stiffer and lower COG to help remove the extra tippy body roll i get on dirty side angles
I may not use it much but I never know when it may come in handy.

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

please explain this further

I dont just want this for steep accent/decents, the main reason i wanted to set this up was for side slope as if i compress the suspension in effect it will be stiffer and lower COG to help remove the extra tippy body roll i get on dirty side angles
I may not use it much but I never know when it may come in handy.

All side slopes are NEVER smooth, what are YOU going to do when you have winched the body down (lower COG, also Stiffens the spring rate) and there is a rock jutting out of the ground that your high side front tyre is going to drive over????????? Now the cross slope is severe as you had to winch down in the first place even to take on the slope!

Remember before you answer, you now have NO wheel travel and that rock is going to lurch the WHOLE vehicle including the diffs AWAY from the slope!!!! (as you have NO wheel travel, as you SPRINGS are compressed)

You have 1 second to make up your mind before you fall over!!!!!!

What are you going to do!

As i am a competitive bastard i am no going to elaborate on the Fox shox question!

POS wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

please explain this further

I dont just want this for steep accent/decents, the main reason i wanted to set this up was for side slope as if i compress the suspension in effect it will be stiffer and lower COG to help remove the extra tippy body roll i get on dirty side angles
I may not use it much but I never know when it may come in handy.

All side slopes are NEVER smooth, what are YOU going to do when you have winched the body down (lower COG, also Stiffens the spring rate) and there is a rock jutting out of the ground that your high side front tyre is going to drive over????????? Now the cross slope is severe as you had to winch down in the first place even to take on the slope!

Remember before you answer, you now have NO wheel travel and that rock is going to lurch the WHOLE vehicle including the diffs AWAY from the slope!!!! (as you have NO wheel travel, as you SPRINGS are compressed)

You have 1 second to make up your mind before you fall over!!!!!!

What are you going to do!

As i am a competitive bastard i am no going to elaborate on the Fox shox question!

far enough but i wont be winchin in all the way say for example i winch down two inches front and rear, I know its not much but I also know that a rangie with stiffer 2" spring lift is gonna be more stable than a rangie with 4" spring lift.... or do you think that no matter wat it wont flex
I did think about the fully compressed side of things and I would never compress the suspension fully i just though that it would still flex ok with the suspension compressed alittle bit, but hey I am open to your opinion and thanks for the brilliant example

By the sounds of it you have thought it threw (whick a lot of people don't) so you should be able to get an advantage from time to time from using this type of set-up!

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

please explain this further

I dont just want this for steep accent/decents, the main reason i wanted to set this up was for side slope as if i compress the suspension in effect it will be stiffer and lower COG to help remove the extra tippy body roll i get on dirty side angles
I may not use it much but I never know when it may come in handy.

All side slopes are NEVER smooth, what are YOU going to do when you have winched the body down (lower COG, also Stiffens the spring rate) and there is a rock jutting out of the ground that your high side front tyre is going to drive over????????? Now the cross slope is severe as you had to winch down in the first place even to take on the slope!

Remember before you answer, you now have NO wheel travel and that rock is going to lurch the WHOLE vehicle including the diffs AWAY from the slope!!!! (as you have NO wheel travel, as you SPRINGS are compressed)

You have 1 second to make up your mind before you fall over!!!!!!

What are you going to do!

As i am a competitive bastard i am no going to elaborate on the Fox shox question!

far enough but i wont be winchin in all the way say for example i winch down two inches front and rear, I know its not much but I also know that a rangie with stiffer 2" spring lift is gonna be more stable than a rangie with 4" spring lift.... or do you think that no matter wat it wont flex
I did think about the fully compressed side of things and I would never compress the suspension fully i just though that it would still flex ok with the suspension compressed alittle bit, but hey I am open to your opinion and thanks for the brilliant example

So to do this you require 4 winches? One for each corner, it' sounds pretty complicated, air suspension or hydraulic would be easier perhaps. Then again if you have a well set up capable rig and the track is that extreme that this is necessary, you possibly shouldn't be there, unless in a buggy.

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

please explain this further

I dont just want this for steep accent/decents, the main reason i wanted to set this up was for side slope as if i compress the suspension in effect it will be stiffer and lower COG to help remove the extra tippy body roll i get on dirty side angles
I may not use it much but I never know when it may come in handy.

All side slopes are NEVER smooth, what are YOU going to do when you have winched the body down (lower COG, also Stiffens the spring rate) and there is a rock jutting out of the ground that your high side front tyre is going to drive over????????? Now the cross slope is severe as you had to winch down in the first place even to take on the slope!

Remember before you answer, you now have NO wheel travel and that rock is going to lurch the WHOLE vehicle including the diffs AWAY from the slope!!!! (as you have NO wheel travel, as you SPRINGS are compressed)

You have 1 second to make up your mind before you fall over!!!!!!

What are you going to do!

As i am a competitive bastard i am no going to elaborate on the Fox shox question!

far enough but i wont be winchin in all the way say for example i winch down two inches front and rear, I know its not much but I also know that a rangie with stiffer 2" spring lift is gonna be more stable than a rangie with 4" spring lift.... or do you think that no matter wat it wont flex
I did think about the fully compressed side of things and I would never compress the suspension fully i just though that it would still flex ok with the suspension compressed alittle bit, but hey I am open to your opinion and thanks for the brilliant example

So to do this you require 4 winches? One for each corner, it' sounds pretty complicated, air suspension or hydraulic would be easier perhaps. Then again if you have a well set up capable rig and the track is that extreme that this is necessary, you possibly shouldn't be there, unless in a buggy.

No you only need two winches (one over each diff) with the diff mount bein dead central measured between both spring mounts, when you get to side slope you whinch in both, and proceed with caution.

I also see it as a benifit (although this is time consuiming) i could compress the rea and leave the front out when I require the front end to do more of the flexin, ofcourse on a track this would be time consuming and I would only use it in the most severe or complicated of circumstances.

AnthonyP wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

please explain this further

I dont just want this for steep accent/decents, the main reason i wanted to set this up was for side slope as if i compress the suspension in effect it will be stiffer and lower COG to help remove the extra tippy body roll i get on dirty side angles
I may not use it much but I never know when it may come in handy.

All side slopes are NEVER smooth, what are YOU going to do when you have winched the body down (lower COG, also Stiffens the spring rate) and there is a rock jutting out of the ground that your high side front tyre is going to drive over????????? Now the cross slope is severe as you had to winch down in the first place even to take on the slope!

Remember before you answer, you now have NO wheel travel and that rock is going to lurch the WHOLE vehicle including the diffs AWAY from the slope!!!! (as you have NO wheel travel, as you SPRINGS are compressed)

You have 1 second to make up your mind before you fall over!!!!!!

What are you going to do!

As i am a competitive bastard i am no going to elaborate on the Fox shox question!

far enough but i wont be winchin in all the way say for example i winch down two inches front and rear, I know its not much but I also know that a rangie with stiffer 2" spring lift is gonna be more stable than a rangie with 4" spring lift.... or do you think that no matter wat it wont flex
I did think about the fully compressed side of things and I would never compress the suspension fully i just though that it would still flex ok with the suspension compressed alittle bit, but hey I am open to your opinion and thanks for the brilliant example

So to do this you require 4 winches? One for each corner, it' sounds pretty complicated, air suspension or hydraulic would be easier perhaps. Then again if you have a well set up capable rig and the track is that extreme that this is necessary, you possibly shouldn't be there, unless in a buggy.

No you only need two winches (one over each diff) with the diff mount bein dead central measured between both spring mounts, when you get to side slope you whinch in both, and proceed with caution.

I also see it as a benifit (although this is time consuiming) i could compress the rea and leave the front out when I require the front end to do more of the flexin, ofcourse on a track this would be time consuming and I would only use it in the most severe or complicated of circumstances.

Well done!

Shadow wrote:Another option would be to set up a bigg ass ratchet strap that you can crank down. Im not sure how much load these will take but i know some of the bigger ones are rated at up to 15000 pounds, think this is breaking strength tho.

I used to use a truck tie down ratchet assembly. The cradle was solidly mounted to the chassis. 2" webbing went from the chassis down and around a loop on the diff and back up to the ratchet. Just used to get 3 or 4 people to jump on the back whilst I ratcheted it down to easy the load. Worked pretty well but I now have a winch and it works even better

POS wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

POS wrote:I also believe that its pretty close to useless unless your running fox shox (or equalevent).

please explain this further

I dont just want this for steep accent/decents, the main reason i wanted to set this up was for side slope as if i compress the suspension in effect it will be stiffer and lower COG to help remove the extra tippy body roll i get on dirty side angles
I may not use it much but I never know when it may come in handy.

All side slopes are NEVER smooth, what are YOU going to do when you have winched the body down (lower COG, also Stiffens the spring rate) and there is a rock jutting out of the ground that your high side front tyre is going to drive over????????? Now the cross slope is severe as you had to winch down in the first place even to take on the slope!

Remember before you answer, you now have NO wheel travel and that rock is going to lurch the WHOLE vehicle including the diffs AWAY from the slope!!!! (as you have NO wheel travel, as you SPRINGS are compressed)

You have 1 second to make up your mind before you fall over!!!!!!

What are you going to do!

As i am a competitive bastard i am no going to elaborate on the Fox shox question!

far enough but i wont be winchin in all the way say for example i winch down two inches front and rear, I know its not much but I also know that a rangie with stiffer 2" spring lift is gonna be more stable than a rangie with 4" spring lift.... or do you think that no matter wat it wont flex
I did think about the fully compressed side of things and I would never compress the suspension fully i just though that it would still flex ok with the suspension compressed alittle bit, but hey I am open to your opinion and thanks for the brilliant example

So to do this you require 4 winches? One for each corner, it' sounds pretty complicated, air suspension or hydraulic would be easier perhaps. Then again if you have a well set up capable rig and the track is that extreme that this is necessary, you possibly shouldn't be there, unless in a buggy.

No you only need two winches (one over each diff) with the diff mount bein dead central measured between both spring mounts, when you get to side slope you whinch in both, and proceed with caution.

I also see it as a benifit (although this is time consuiming) i could compress the rea and leave the front out when I require the front end to do more of the flexin, ofcourse on a track this would be time consuming and I would only use it in the most severe or complicated of circumstances.

Well done!