Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Looks good, but is it built to comply with all the relevant ADRs etc? That's why a lot of fabrications shops won't touch front bar work.

300TDi wrote:Looks good, but is it built to comply with all the relevant ADRs etc? That's why a lot of fabrications shops won't touch front bar work.

There arn't any ADR's in Italy

I think it look sweet.

ADR's

Thanks guys


Er...what's ADR's???


Both bumper and cradle are made of stainless steel,4 or 5 mm thick,
I don't remember at the mo...


I'm going through the Italian MoT nightmare and the truck will be checked out at the end of the month,
if everything goes they'll declare the 90 road legal.
If not,I'll have to throw all the stuff away


What rules do you have in Oz?
I've always been curious,judging by some forumeers trucks...


Cheers

Is the winch only mounted to the vertical plate above the bar ? If it is it wont last long with the stress's it will be put under. You would want at least 8-10mm steel and stainless isnt necessarily any stronger .

Loanrangie wrote:Is the winch only mounted to the vertical plate above the bar ? If it is it wont last long with the stress's it will be put under. You would want at least 8-10mm steel and stainless isnt necessarily any stronger .

yep... I have to agree... I dont think 4-5mm steel will be strong enough to withstand the forces of the winch trying to pull itself through that front plate

Ok,
the winch cradle (see pics) has been welded directly on the bumper.
To withstand the strain triangular brackets have been fabricated and welded in the corners.
The winch can be mounted both "feet down" or "feet forward"
as needed.
These are the ways it goes.
All the stuff have been made following the Superwinch instructions.
LR oe winch bumpers are 5mm thick and made of dumb iron.
This is tough stuff,and 1st class welding.

I admit I have to test it yet,but the fabricator granted it's mooore than enough.

Anyway,an Husky is on the way
(and this goes "feet down" only!)
so it'll replace the X9 soon...
...and I'll have to create a brand new cradle,so eventual
improvements will be easy to do.


Hey,it's my first homemade experiment!

Michele,

Most of your winch mounting plate is as weak as pi$$. The triangular gussets at the ends will not help much (they are too far apart and not high enough to support the upper part of the plate). Flat 5mm plate is not good enough for the bending loads. And that large rectangular opening above the rope exit has severely reduced the strength of the plate to the point where little load from the upper winch mounting feet can be resisted.

The lower part of the plate (where the winch lower mounting feet attach) is very strong because it is stiffened by the bar. This is were most of the load from the winch rope will be resisted.

You may find that it is strong enough.

However if the upper part of the plate distorts under load it could lead to problems with the winch binding in it's bearings, which reduces the amount that the winch pulls and could cause cracks in the housing. I have seen a new winch bolted up to a slightly distorted bar and the motor could not turn the drum with no load, because of bearing bind.

Michele, can you PM me on LRE? There a couple of very simpel mods you can do to hugely increase the strength. I won't mean redesigning, it'll just mean a little more welding.

The initial design isn't bad but it could do with a bit more as it'd be a shame to bund such a smart bumper.

Yeah, the bumper looks good, just needs a cradle that bolts to the chassis and mounts the winch more securely.

Bush65 wrote:Michele,Most of your winch mounting plate is as weak as pi$$(SNIP)And that large rectangular opening above the rope exit has severely reduced the strength of the plate

Hey Bush,thanks for your kind words!

I reckon now I should have go full lenght with the brackets...
Next month when I'll cut it in pieces I'll re-engineer a better one.
Re:the opening,how can I see the spooling if I don't put one?


Will,PM.

I just hope the Husky is not too wide...

Michele wrote:

Bush65 wrote:Michele,Most of your winch mounting plate is as weak as pi$$(SNIP)And that large rectangular opening above the rope exit has severely reduced the strength of the plate

Hey Bush,thanks for your kind words!

I reckon now I should have go full lenght with the brackets...
Next month when I'll cut it in pieces I'll re-engineer a better one.
Re:the opening,how can I see the spooling if I don't put one?


Will,PM.

I just hope the Husky is not too wide...

Your welcome

I don't understand what you mean by "I should go full length with the brackets.

Can't you see the winch drum from above, without looking through that slot.

Most of the load from the tension in the winch rope will be carried by the horizontal part of your winch plate/bumper. It is difficult to tell from the pics, just how much of this horizontal plate will be effective. It does look like not all of it will be effective, because the rear edge is not stiffened (ie the rear edge will tend to buckle).

As for the upper part of the winch plate (above the opening), fortunately the loads there are much lower. It is not supporting the winch very well. It needs a stiffener along the top edge, extending all of the way to the gussets at each end.

John,is there any chance we're saying the same thing in different ways?
I hope so to understand what to do...
Ok,with "full lenght" brackets I mean-can you see where the winch plate is cutted to an angle?-ok what if I had let it squared
[____]
like this (erm,hope it's clear enough,sorry!)
so I can weld longer (higher?) triangular brackets to cover the full height of the plate?

Man,I wish I lived in Oz now so I could bring the whole car to you


Plus,I coul add an horizontal bar in front of the cradle
this way (side view)
_
\[ TRUCK HERE>>>>]

and add brackets \| again?

Man,what a mess!
Oy,maybe this is what you meant with "stiffener along the top edge"...?
I hope I got the point...


Can do some drawings if needed.

Thanks.

Michele,

Sorry for delay - had problems posting last few days.

Probably the best way to stiffen the upper part of the winch plate is to weld flat bar along the top edge, so that it makes an inverted L shape. The stiffener needs to extend all of the way across and the ends need to be supported by the gussets on each side.

The stiffener would be better at the rear of the plate, it it will clear the winch. The stiffener could be run down along the angle cuts at the top left and right corners.

I don't see the point. The line of pull is close to the fairlead height and is thus very close to the bottom flange of the cradle. The bottom flange looks to be around 150mm deep which is adequate for the forces involved. There will be very little force up high and the gusset as they are are probably enough. I suspect this one is fine as is. I've seen many much lighter winch cradles that don't bend.

On another point, normal stainless steel that one would use is weaker than any carbon steel. There are high strength stainless steel but nothing that a normal human could come by.

Michelle, if you want send me some dimensions if you have them and the type of material and I can check the stresses for you.

Michele,

First, hats off for going the "custom" route rather than going with the off the shelf availability...

When I build my bumpers, I go from the "winch basket" to the bumper, not the other way around...i.e., I build the winch bumper, ensure that this is 200%, finalize this, and the aftermath is the bumper, regardless of the look, the objective is teh winch basket.

You seem to have gone in the other direction, i.e., the bumper, which I am certain is sturdy, to the winch basket...welding a plate on teh front and two triangular ones on the side won't cut it in my opinion, and you will eventually over stress the welding. Try to weld as little as possible - my 1st version bumper had 7 sections to weld, the last one, version 3, had 4, and the coming one, will have 2 only, with more bending than welding.

I'd suggest you rectify in the following way:

1. put perpendicular 8mm in font of the basket/bumper
2. take the whole baskeet off, creat a new one that bolts to the bumper (a la jeep)...
3. let me redesign it for you

Good luck...

Red90,

I agree that it is probably strong enough and said as much in my 1st post.

The main concern I have is the upper section is not very stiff and if it is distorted, for what ever reason (nudging a tree for example - no kangaroos to hit in Italy), the bearings for the drum can bind and reduce how much the winch can pull.

Michele,
-Sorry for delay

-Probably the best way to stiffen the upper part of the winch plate is to weld flat bar (...)inverted L shape(...)all of the way across and the ends

-The stiffener would be better at the rear of the plate, it it will clear the winch.
John

John:
-No problem!
-OK,same I thought then,happy I got the point

-er...there's not so much room left at the rear!
I fitted it so tighly to keep 0 overhang...

+I suspect this one is fine as is
+Michelle, if you want send me some dimensions if you have them and the type of material
and I can check the stresses for you

+Thanks

I'll improve it anyway,it's not a great mod...just some plates to weld.
+I like the idea!!!
I'm curious to know more about this.
As told,I got the steel from an industrial stuff (BIG stuff) fabricator
and they only use hi-qu s/s.
Probably he knows the name/coding of this (?) so I can ask and let you know.
Sizes,I have my drawing somewhere,I'll send it to you.

DiscoDino
+First, hats off for going the "custom" route rather than going with the off the shelf availability...
+You seem to have gone in the other direction
+2. take the whole baskeet off, creat a new one that bolts to the bumper (a la jeep)...

+
The anti-offtheshelf war has started

+erm,you're right but I'll tell you I wasn't sure I would have had a winch
when I started the bumper

+I'll have to do it soon as I'll have a brand new Husky next week for free
so I'll end up selling the "little" X9 to make some money


I'll enhance this cradle anyway and see what to do.

Thanks so far you guys for the nice replies.

Keep the tech up

If you're getting a Husky, that bolts feet down rather than feet forward so this sort of design will be OK as you'll be bolting to the bumper rather than the cradle.

Yap,
it means the bumper will need some holes as well
(ouff!)

Drawing at the hand,the Husky without the solenoids housing
would nicely fit in the actual cradle,
but the cable window is obviously offset