Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just had a chat to Mal Story - Maker of the famed Maxi-Drive

They are currently in development of Heavy Duty 110 and RR CV's. They will be BRAND NEW - made from high strength alloys and properly heat treated - not beefed up std items like the hilux longfields.

Just though I would post the info here in case anyone is interested.

Another bit of info - he also gave me the part number for the 4.7:1 rover R&P fitted to the 6x6 Perentie (used by the Aust military). Apparently this is much stronger than all other rover 4.7's.

Part number is FRC 4029 - retail price is $1755AUD ($900USD) for 1 CW and 1 Pinion - !!!

Very interested.
Please keep us posted.

Michael.

Ben,

This news is great. I am following it up on the P4x4 site as well. Its great to know that we now have a bolt-in HD set-up for the front Rover "Bango" differential.

On another note, I have found several rear Salisbury axles now, one with discs, however, the price of that one is absurd (its a '97). I was wondering if you can confirm that I can use off the shelf OEM Land Rover parts to transform a drum one into disc (got a drum one WITH 4.7 for 60$ US). I'll be using MD HD 24 spline axles and an ARB.

Thanks as always.

First of all if you are buying a drum Salisbury, make sure it is from a 110 (1984-90) or early defender (1990-93). These were all 3.54:1 from the factory, so if it is 4.7:1 someone must have swapped the R&P for a 4.7 (I think you have to swap the centre too because the flange placing is different between the 3.54 and 4.7 centres.

The only common/civilian LR's fitted with 4.7:1 Salisbury was the SIII - and you don't want one of these because they were leaf sprung and about 6" narrower. Some military and "one ton" LR's had coil sprung 4.7's factory but these are very rare.

As to fitting discs, you should be able to fit your stub axles and hubs/discs to the salisbury (or use the salisbury stub axles). The only part I am not sure about is if you can get an "off the shelf" caliper mount that will fit. I think one is available but only for a specific hub/disc spacing and a specific type of caliper (NOT a disco caliper). You may need to get someone over there to machine special caliper mounts for you (anyone with a lathe and milling machine should be able to do this). As I said - not 100% sure - best bet is to ask Mal Story.

Ive just broken another CV and axle on the weekend. Im currently running a warm 4.6 lt and 35"s. Im going to 36" centrepedes when they come out.

The drive train at the moment is a lt77s gearbox and 230 transfer case. I run an airlocker with fine spline axles and CVs in the front. In the rear Ive got a salsbury with a maxidrive in it. I run 4.1 ratios

I wondering what peoples experiences are with upgrading to Maxi drive axles and 110 cvs in the front. Will I simply shift a weak point to the gearbox or crown wheel and pinion?

I would rather break CVS that are relatively cheap than break a crown wheel and pinion or gearbox which I cant fix myself.

I would like to see these CVS when they come out. If they are super strong (like the axles) I might try and put some sort of FWH arrangement on the front and hope the hub becomes my fuse


What do you guys think??

discokid wrote:Ive just broken another CV and axle on the weekend. Im currently running a warm 4.6 lt and 35"s. Im going to 36" centrepedes when they come out.

The drive train at the moment is a lt77s gearbox and 230 transfer case. I run an airlocker with fine spline axles and CVs in the front. In the rear Ive got a salsbury with a maxidrive in it. I run 4.1 ratios

I wondering what peoples experiences are with upgrading to Maxi drive axles and 110 cvs in the front. Will I simply shift a weak point to the gearbox or crown wheel and pinion?

I would rather break CVS that are relatively cheap than break a crown wheel and pinion or gearbox which I cant fix myself.

I would like to see these CVS when they come out. If they are super strong (like the axles) I might try and put some sort of FWH arrangement on the front and hope the hub becomes my fuse


What do you guys think??

Its funny that most of the guys up here in Brisbane that are close to Maxidrive convert to the 110 CVs but most of the southeners that compete in the winch challenge stuff all run the stock rangie CVs with the seperate 10 spline stub axles

I think either way has its merits.

What is the outer spline count on your inner axle going into the CV (Im just guessing that its the spall 32 spline version (stock disco??) )

What bit did you actually break?? Is this the same that you have previously broken??

Sam

Mal said eventually he will have stronger versions of:

The 110 CV (outer shaft attached) and

The RR/Disco CV (seperate CV with female splines each side).

At the moment the guys running stock 110/Stage 1 CV's still seem to break the CV or the outer shaft more often than the R&P.

I do have the smaller input 32 spline. I know the earlier larger are a 23. The axle and CV always breaks on the drivers side ( short side) It breaks right on the spline of the axle usually destroying splines on the axle in the process. As I say this I can fix this relatively cheaply however its a pain.

If I swap to Maxi axles and cvs i just wondering whether the weakness in the driveline would be solved or I would continue the break the larger CVS and possibly destroy a maxi axle or something else instead

I would assume this would be a more expensive excercise

discokid wrote:I do have the smaller input 32 spline. I know the earlier larger are a 23. The axle and CV always breaks on the drivers side ( short side) It breaks right on the spline of the axle usually destroying splines on the axle in the process. As I say this I can fix this relatively cheaply however its a pain.

If I swap to Maxi axles and cvs i just wondering whether the weakness in the driveline would be solved or I would continue the break the larger CVS and possibly destroy a maxi axle or something else instead

I would assume this would be a more expensive excercise

If you change Maxi-Drive axles and std early 110 (23 spline) CV's with integral outer axle (mal attaches a toothed ring to the early CV so the ABS still works - note the HD CV's aren't available yet) - the weak point will still be the CV however the axles will be a lot stronger. You would be most likely to break a CV or outer integral shaft (in which case you have to throw the CV anyway), however this would be very unlikely to damage the MD inner axles. So you would still have to replace CV's, just less often.

Is there ANYWAY of making the drive shaft UJ the weak link? I mean, they cost 13US$, and they can be changed in 15 minutes...

DiscoDino wrote:Is there ANYWAY of making the drive shaft UJ the weak link? I mean, they cost 13US$, and they can be changed in 15 minutes...

I doubt it, not using std rover components. Unless you put a weakness in the UJ. The problem is the torque gets multiplied (by the diff ratio) going through the diff - so the axles, CV's and diff centre see (in my case) 4.7x the torque coming out of the T-case.

If it was the weak link you would probably damage other parts of the propshaft if it broke when you had the power on.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

DiscoDino wrote:Is there ANYWAY of making the drive shaft UJ the weak link? I mean, they cost 13US$, and they can be changed in 15 minutes...

I doubt it, not using std rover components. Unless you put a weakness in the UJ. The problem is the torque gets multiplied (by the diff ratio) going through the diff - so the axles, CV's and diff centre see (in my case) 4.7x the torque coming out of the T-case.

If it was the weak link you would probably damage other parts of the propshaft if it broke when you had the power on.

Agreed - we have twisted the propshaft in half - and reused the UJ's....

discokid wrote:I do have the smaller input 32 spline. I know the earlier larger are a 23. The axle and CV always breaks on the drivers side ( short side) It breaks right on the spline of the axle usually destroying splines on the axle in the process. As I say this I can fix this relatively cheaply however its a pain.

If I swap to Maxi axles and cvs i just wondering whether the weakness in the driveline would be solved or I would continue the break the larger CVS and possibly destroy a maxi axle or something else instead

I would assume this would be a more expensive excercise

Discokid - so you are breaking the star of the CV which is taking out the inner axle as well. Right??

If thats the case then the rover star in the smaller 23 spline input must be a weak CV cause there is a lot of material in the star in that version. I would have thought that with the smaller 32 spline input that you would just twist the inner axle but it seems that the star still fails first.

Even if you swap to maxi axles and 110 CVs or early range rover CVs with the larger 23spline input than you are still at risk of breaking the star and taking out the now expensive inner axle which is a PITA.

Even guys that run the range rover CV with the outer 10 spline stub axles still break the star and bell (and sometimes the outer stub)

At the outback challenge an english guy in a Ibex had CVs with 24 spline stub axles (very similar to the RR cvs with the 10 spline stubs) that had machined grooves in them which caused them to fail early. He broke one on a special stage and it took him about 5 min to replace the broken stub. The guys running the rangie CVs and 10 spline stub use these CVs for the same reason.

Sam

Sam

On closer inspection it could be the axle that breaks first. Its hard to tell ( you wouldnt think so as its happened 3 times).

Could it be that the spline of the axle cracks in half and then takes out the CV?

Looks like Ill go Maxi axles and RR stubs per OBC guys. Maybe Maxi Drive wil be making/ modifying those CVs as well???

discokid wrote:Sam

On closer inspection it could be the axle that breaks first. Its hard to tell ( you wouldnt think so as its happened 3 times).

Could it be that the spline of the axle cracks in half and then takes out the CV?

Looks like Ill go Maxi axles and RR stubs per OBC guys. Maybe Maxi Drive wil be making/ modifying those CVs as well???

Id say that the cv star is breaking first. If the axle went it would just shear off and leave the broken end of the axle in the cv. This is how Ive seen a few inner axles go on the longfielded toy setups.

Sam

ISUZUROVER wrote:

discokid wrote:I do have the smaller input 32 spline. I know the earlier larger are a 23. The axle and CV always breaks on the drivers side ( short side) It breaks right on the spline of the axle usually destroying splines on the axle in the process. As I say this I can fix this relatively cheaply however its a pain.

If I swap to Maxi axles and cvs i just wondering whether the weakness in the driveline would be solved or I would continue the break the larger CVS and possibly destroy a maxi axle or something else instead

I would assume this would be a more expensive excercise

If you change Maxi-Drive axles and std early 110 (23 spline) CV's with integral outer axle (mal attaches a toothed ring to the early CV so the ABS still works - note the HD CV's aren't available yet) - the weak point will still be the CV however the axles will be a lot stronger. You would be most likely to break a CV or outer integral shaft (in which case you have to throw the CV anyway), however this would be very unlikely to damage the MD inner axles. So you would still have to replace CV's, just less often.

Ben how can you say you wont damage a maxi inner axle My 10 year old son broke a cv drove 30 meters and rooted the axle which was 2 weeks old , rang mal all he said was don,t drive with a busted cv next time He also said just run the file up the splines then bash an old cv on and off until it lossens up Pulled the axle out 2years later still looked the same ROOTED

bobtail wrote:Ben how can you say you wont damage a maxi inner axle My 10 year old son broke a cv drove 30 meters and rooted the axle which was 2 weeks old , rang mal all he said was don,t drive with a busted cv next time He also said just run the file up the splines then bash an old cv on and off until it lossens up Pulled the axle out 2years later still looked the same ROOTED

Ok Mick fair enough - but it did WORK for those 2 years didn't it? even if it looked rooted.

You have to admit that it would be harder to damage the larger 23 spline axles than the tiny (very fine) 32 spline axles.