Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day guys- I have been looking at these two vehicles for 6 months and can't decide which of these would be a better rig. The 12HT has awesome power (for those big dunes), but has leaf springs, and the 80 has coil springs (good articulation for those 'hard to reach places'), but a comparitively gutless engine. Don't want to turbo a 1hz 80 cos A: i can't afford an 80 AND a turbo conversion, and B: i hear the 12HT is one of the toughest engines out. I was planning to lift it 3 inches, put 31s on it and lock the diffs- which vehicle is easier and/or cheaper to do this to? help me out guys i'm going nuts here!!! (p.s- am spending between 15 and 20 grand)

Cheers lads

I'd go the 60. Spend the money on suspension. My 60 flexes beautifully...although I have to do something to stop the rear shackles inverting

a stock 1hz should put out nearly as much power as a stock 12HT

12HT might come on power a little soonber though?

60 is a good truck, should be able to get a nice GXL or Sahara in your price range and still be able to lift it ($1400) and new tyres ($1000)

Diesel 60- that was kind of the plan for the 60 but i really don't know a whole lot about suspension- how big a job is it to get the 60 flexing? i've heard it can be done but have no idea how expensive it is etc.
Shadow-how confident are you on your claims of negligible power differences? i've driven both and i thought the 12HT was much more impressive but i haven't driven many of either.

Don't like petrol's?

Go the 60, i can get mine to flex sweet as, easy to lift, and still old school enough to pick stuff up easily from the wreckers when you, wreck it

rowan wrote:G'day guys- I have been looking at these two vehicles for 6 months and can't decide which of these would be a better rig. The 12HT has awesome power (for those big dunes), but has leaf springs, and the 80 has coil springs (good articulation for those 'hard to reach places'), but a comparitively gutless engine. Don't want to turbo a 1hz 80 cos A: i can't afford an 80 AND a turbo conversion, and B: i hear the 12HT is one of the toughest engines out. I was planning to lift it 3 inches, put 31s on it and lock the diffs- which vehicle is easier and/or cheaper to do this to? help me out guys i'm going nuts here!!! (p.s- am spending between 15 and 20 grand)

Cheers lads

Most 60's are running 31's as standard(some of the early ones had 205x16's). At least go 32's (same height as 7.50x16's) or 33's, esp with a 3 inch lift.

rowan wrote:Diesel 60- that was kind of the plan for the 60 but i really don't know a whole lot about suspension- how big a job is it to get the 60 flexing? i've heard it can be done but have no idea how expensive it is etc.
Shadow-how confident are you on your claims of negligible power differences? i've driven both and i thought the 12HT was much more impressive but i haven't driven many of either.

a 12HT is supposed to put out 100kw (flywheel)

the 1hz is about 97 from memory, also flywheel

i will try to find the webpage that had all the engines and thier outputs listed.

http://www.blairs.co.nz/engines/diesel/t_y.html

that site indicates 136hp for the 12HT at 3500rpm

and 135hp for the 1hz at 4000rpm

so yeh the 1hz comes into max poower later, but it does have similar power output.

the 12HT power cna be increased with some minor stuff, but then so can the 1hz (extractors etc)

marks 4wd website also quotes the stock output of the 12HT as 100kw and the stock output of the 1hz as 95kw

http://www.marks4wd.com/misc.html

i would go the 80series for its coils and 12ht not as commen could be tricky getting part in years to come.these are 2 examples $22000 100 series 300000k 1hz stock at a dealer 60 series converted to d/cab with 2" lift 33" mud 12ht 380000k with aluminium tray $14000 iam sure you could get a good 80 for $15000 with off road gear on it iam thinking off trading in my other car for 100 anyway i will always pick the younger one

80's are getting cheaper...hard to go past a std 80....unless you buy a std turbo diesel gxl...seen them for 15 in yards, with high milage...thats the go!
Andrew

I dont think there is much problem finding parts for a 12HT, alot of the parts are common to a 2H and they are about as common as engines get. (more common than a 1HZ in that the 2H was also used in alot of coasters and dynas, replaced by the 3litre turbo now rather than the 1hz).

Jst about everything thats different between a 12HT and 2H would be available aftermarket, the internal differences are very minor, and the blocks are interchangeable AFAIK.


I'd probably get the 80 series myself aswell as its a newer car, with coil suspension (comfort).

the 1HZ is meant to be as bulletproof as the 2H/12HT so theres no problem there.

I guess it depends what options you want, if you want a GXL/SAHARA you may only be able to afford a 60 series within your budget. If a base model is fine, then an 80 series would be the go id say.

I'm not sure what the go is with imports anymore, but last year i looked into them and back then you could get a 89 VX(sahara) import with PTO winch and if your lucky cable lockers landed, complianced and registered for $12-16K depending on milage and condition using an import broker. There is however legislation to stop people importing cars that have similar models sold in Australia. You used to be able to get around this if the car was 15 years old. Unfortunately i think they removed the 15 year rule...

There are a few differences between the imports and the Australian model, mostly minor other than the 24Volt electrical system they have. Some of the imports also have a 3litre turbo diesel (13BT?) which is meant to produce similar power as the 12HT, but id probably stay away from them as i dont think the parts will be available as easily.

Most insurance companies dont even treat them as an import since they are nearly identical to the aus model.

That said, there are plenty of the imports already in Australia, but they are probably asking top dollar for them. Think i saw them priced at 15-20k in import yards last year.

hey rowan
hows it going

id say go the 80s

ive driven a 60s for over 12months great 4x4
but there getting on in age & kms
big probs with rust in roof - firewall - etc with the 60s

no rust probs that i know of in 80s yet
id say spend alittle extra n get an 80s

Why not go the direct injection turbo 80s

1HD-T 115kw @ 3600
357nm @ 1800

cheers
daryl

also toyota dont make parts for the 12ht engine any longer
i know as my brother sh*t itself 6months ago
so i guess its going that way with all the 60s parts
another point to look at before handing over cash for 60s

I own a 60 and I have the worst case of 80 envy.

Just get the 80!

dibbz wrote:I own a 60 and I have the worst case of 80 envy.

Just get the 80!

I hear ya mate.....

Cheers guys-thanks for the power output info shadow- i'm kinda surprised i guess the 12ht may just be a bit more torquey or something (and come on earlier as you said). So i guess that settles it- i'm getting an 80- woohoo! thanks guys you have settled a long running bout of indecision- now all i have to do is find one in Perth ( which is proving quite hard to do). daryl- yeah i wish i could afford a turbo 80 (would have to convert it to part time 4wd tho).
thanks again guys- see you in tha bush!

The part time dx only differs in the transfer...and they are interchangeable...there is a t/d on ebay at the moment for 23k looks ok, but too dear if u ask me.
Andrew

dow50r wrote:The part time dx only differs in the transfer...and they are interchangeable...there is a t/d on ebay at the moment for 23k looks ok, but too dear if u ask me.
Andrew

I picked up my 100 series on Ebay for $26000(1HZ 158K TJM bar & winch, BFG ATs) had a 2" suspension lift(Fulcrum) and extractors & 2.5" exhaust
all up cost me $27600,
it now goes harder than the TD 60(towed old XE wagon on car trailer over Black mountain Cooroy in 5th at 80kph) and is light years ahead in comfort
and the sound deadening makes it car quiet inside

Rowen, don't discount interstate vehicles
I had to travel to Sydney to get mine
they can be a few thousand $$ cheaper and you still save money having it transported or air fare and driving it home, your state's auto club can arrange to have it checked out before you buy, so you know what your getting

in Brisbane standard diesel 80s go for under $14000, mate got a GXL diesel for $14900 with 330K and elec everything

Kev

Hey my name is derek and i own a 60 series, both of these cars have their pros and cons and round my way u can easily pick up a base model 80 series for round 5 grand, the 60 has probs with rust in the roof and thats bout it, one of my mates has an 80 series and so far he's replaced his big ends, rebuilt his gear box, had to replace the bottom section of body under the tail gate- the body blocks pushed thru and has recently discovered massive cracks in his firewall behind the accelerator pedal. he also owns a 75 series with a 12-HT and his 80 has a 1HZ-turbo and had them both dyno'd and tuned....the 12HT made 110bhp at the rear wheels and the 1HZ-turbo made 100bhp at the rear. im not saying that the 80 series is a bad buy but u gotta relize that both the 60 and the 80 r now getting on in years and the 60 is easier to get parts and if u get a 12HT u can make more power cheaper..The 12HT i was talking bout was stock it just had the boost and fuel adjusted.

and the 12HT is spastic on fuel economy.

So far my sixty has had both diffs rebuilt, i picked up a really good going 2H for $600 and put a crank seal and rear main seal int it and its been runnin perfect for a year now and no other probs, sum of my mates say its one of the best going 2H's they've driven.

And a new clutch, as for the rust im planning to get a dual cab cut at the end of the year for $2500. all up after the cut it would have cost me....$8500ish.

But at the end of the day, u could get a stock 80 for round 14-15 000 for a gxl or u could get a sixty and get pretty much everything rebuilt and reliable for round $8500

lol about 4 years too late dude

I know im late but 1hz to a 12Ht is like chalk and cheese. 12HT wins in every category, hp figures don't mean anything with these engines as the 12ht feels like it has 100 hp more than the 1hz. Direct injection, no timing belt changes, simple in design and unreal on fuel. stick a 3 inch strait through exhaust on, up the boost and fuel and your miles in front and you just can not kill them. i'f you dont believe me i'll you for a spin in my ute (167hp at the wheels and 704 nm of tourqe) and will do it all day every day.

I have seen turbo charged diesels with similar numbers on paper to n/a diesels, have greater acceleration than the n/a. The turbo makes a huge difference even with the same h/p and torque numbers on paper.

chris12ht75 wrote:I know im late but 1hz to a 12Ht is like chalk and cheese. 12HT wins in every category, hp figures don't mean anything with these engines as the 12ht feels like it has 100 hp more than the 1hz. Direct injection, no timing belt changes, simple in design and unreal on fuel. stick a 3 inch strait through exhaust on, up the boost and fuel and your miles in front and you just can not kill them. i'f you dont believe me i'll you for a spin in my ute (167hp at the wheels and 704 nm of tourqe) and will do it all day every day.

Hi all...Spot on chris.A mate of mine has a 60 with a stock 12ht.It goes as good as my hdj79.Mine rev a little harder and his pulls harder down low to mid range.

To say a 12ht is as good as a 1hd-ft is a real stretch. With some work it can be, but certainly not stock. And even with work you are comparing a modified engine to a stock one. Do the same work to a 1hd-ft and you'll be leaving a 12ht at the lights.

In new condition, 80 series 1hz with the h151 gearbox is the winner. coils and interior comfort aside, the 1hz is a much smoother and higher revving engine which gives you a gearing advantage over a 12ht. Combined with the h151 gearbox which is much better geared than the older h55f which has that huge gap between 2nd and 3rd.

oldmate wrote:To say a 12ht is as good as a 1hd-ft is a real stretch. With some work it can be, but certainly not stock. And even with work you are comparing a modified engine to a stock one. Do the same work to a 1hd-ft and you'll be leaving a 12ht at the lights.

In new condition, 80 series 1hz with the h151 gearbox is the winner. coils and interior comfort aside, the 1hz is a much smoother and higher revving engine which gives you a gearing advantage over a 12ht. Combined with the h151 gearbox which is much better geared than the older h55f which has that huge gap between 2nd and 3rd.

There is nothing in a diesel cruiser or patrol around here that can keep up to my 12HT, leaves a 1hdfte and a 1vd v8 standing still