Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Drive a very good condition 89 rangie, last of 3.5 injected. What is the best conversion to do; holden, rover 3.9 or 4.6, stroker, or rebuild original 3.5? Would like opinions on what handles best and has less problems not necessarily highest power output.

Go the 4.6
Rover motor
4 bolt main bearing
Heaps of low rpm torque
No conversion hassles
Cheap at the moment

4.0 is also good and cheaper

You wil get tons of different opinions.
HSV Rangie will tell you that a Holden 5litre kills any Rover motor and it sure does, but costs quite a bit, and you have to do the work yourself and be handy with fabrication. You can never afford to pay someone to do the myriad fiddly time consuming things like making up kickdown cable adaptors etc. Parts and reliability are of course excellent, but your 3.5 auto??transmission will die
It also weighs 40-50 KG more which I think is negative to Rangie Classic balance. Much like a Disco TDi vs V8.

It will also be fiddly for you to convert to a 3.9 or 4.6 as you would have to basically throw away most of the electronic bits of your injection.( I assume you have a Flapper AFM) You can get a Megasquirt of aftermarket like Haltech, but again you better have plenty of time to tune and troubleshoot. You will need a new rail and injectors, CPU, probably loom. The easiest and wuld be a 3.9 14 CUX but you will be up for $500-$1000 depending on what sort of deal you get , and no labour.
On the other hand your current injection is probably on its last legs.

I reckon I would sell your current car and upgrade to a lower mileage 3.9 Classic. The difference in price would only be a couple of grand, assuming yours is a good goer. Whatever you do to yours will cost more than a changeover. a 3.9-4.6 will cost you NEW $5000-7000, and used who knows. How much can you do yourself???

If you can do the work yourself and want to keepo the car, the simplest would be to rebuild your 3.5. But the 3.9 makes an enormous difference to the driveablility of the car . I would go 3.9 personally, but consider the cost of injection etc. ( you may be able to tweak the flapper but people who now know it are few and far between)(
Regard s Philip A

Thanks;
I heard that there has been problems with the 4.6 litre block and that the best option is to build a 3.9 up to about 4.7. I do understand that there is a lot of work involved and Im not that mechanicaly minded, like most Im good at pulling things down, but then need help. I knew that I would have to replace the cpu, and just about everything else and this is why Im checking to see what others think as I don't want to be paying for things twice because of a bad choice. At the moment Im swaying towards a strong 3.9 - 4.7 or bigger, With a wolf 3D management system. I have only owned the car for about a year and it is great but things are starting to show their age. I don't want to change to a later model as this is the exact car I've wanted and chasing since about the age of 6 when I did trips with my dad and the RR club(yes yes I know wa wa). Its a very original one owner with full history, even the original owners vid. One thing that I do enjoy about it is that it is a very strong 3.5 even after 250,000km, and touring I average 15.7ltrs per 100km pushing it, not may other RR owners believe me when I mention it. My ideas for the car have come from the strong Outback Challenge RR's of Chris Hummer and The Smiths just on a lower budget. I figure I should be able to build a good strong reliable complete engine for no more than $12,000. If I'm dreaming ill sell it and built up my trusty zook.

Is there a big handling difference with the holden powered Rangies

What about a P76 build up?

One recipe is get a 3.9, a set of the later "thor?" heads, change the chip and add some extractors. thats whats in one ob challenge truck.

s3111107@ wrote: I figure I should be able to build a good strong reliable complete engine for no more than $12,000.

Is that a mistake?
I reckon I could build at least 5 or 6 engines for that price.

I looked at all the options about 8 years ago,

Including adaptor kits, 253 Holden was the cheapest, then small Chev & 308, but these prices didn't include custom linkages, radiator mods etc.

4.4 P76? 30 year old motor, doesn't quite bolt straight in, parts are getting scarce, by the time you paid to have rebuild a tired one, you could probably have brought a stock 4.6 or set up a sweet EFI 3.9 that would kick it's arse.

For only a few hundred bucks more I got a brand new 3.9 bottom end, reco'd my heads, shoved them on with my Stromberg carbies & timing cover, bolted straight in no problems. Grunt to climb rocks with the tacho on zero rpm and ignition light flickering, could do donuts on the beach at 6500rpm, had no problems blowing up axles & gearbox with 34" tyres, why would I have needed any more power?

$12,000 is the lowest ive been quoted from all repuable workshops in Melbourne. This is for a very strong engine with computer, extractors and all the other good bits. Most places were around 14-15k for a complete 4.6 conversion. Reminding you that most work will be done by the shop. thats why i'm wondering if it's worth it with running costs these days, ill definately be ringing the 3.5 till it totally gives way.

You seem like you really like the car as it is - stock. If I were you, I would just pay to get the 3.5 rebuilt but maybe a bit hotter cam and heads or like some others have said, go for a 3.9 and build it up. You don't want to go changing too much if you like it as it is as you will soon be breaking things if you go too wild and then you will be on the endless list of modifying to cope with the extra grunt. The Rover motors are really good IMHO, just build it up for more reliability and you'll have another trouble free 20 years out of it.

I would look at the 3.9 option. this would be the most economical way to go to gain some more power. it's quite amazing how myuch more grunt the 3.9 has over the 3.5

3.5's are a waste of money to obtain heaps of power out of. I've been there and done that and it's just not worth all the pissing about with it to be honest. My 3.5 is stock as in the 83 and even with new top end it's gutless as all hell anyway behind the ZF auto and 32' MT/R's. Just have to put up with it for a while I guess.

Good luck whichever way you go.

Trav

I have already said a 3.9 is my pick , but if you want bigger, do NOT stroke a 3.9 to 4.7. The stroker kit is $3000, and you get a brand new 4.6 for $3600.

AFAIK, there are no reliability prblems with new 4.6. The early ones from 95 to 98 did have problems with liners shifting, but many of these were caused by overheating from several radiator/heater hose problems that the early cars had. I can tel l you that the specialists like Graeme Cooper stopped stroking as soon as 4.6 became available , as they had MANY more warranty problems with stroked motors.

12 grand seems a lot !!! 7 is usualbut the injection bits and labour would be expensive. also that might include a trannie upgrade???
Regards Philip A

Philip A wrote:You wil get tons of different opinions.
HSV Rangie will tell you that a Holden 5litre kills any Rover motor and it sure does, but costs quite a bit, and you have to do the work yourself and be handy with fabrication. You can never afford to pay someone to do the myriad fiddly time consuming things like making up kickdown cable adaptors etc. Parts and reliability are of course excellent, but your 3.5 auto??transmission will die
It also weighs 40-50 KG more which I think is negative to Rangie Classic balance. Much like a Disco TDi vs V8.

It will also be fiddly for you to convert to a 3.9 or 4.6 as you would have to basically throw away most of the electronic bits of your injection.( I assume you have a Flapper AFM) You can get a Megasquirt of aftermarket like Haltech, but again you better have plenty of time to tune and troubleshoot. You will need a new rail and injectors, CPU, probably loom. The easiest and wuld be a 3.9 14 CUX but you will be up for $500-$1000 depending on what sort of deal you get , and no labour.
On the other hand your current injection is probably on its last legs.

I reckon I would sell your current car and upgrade to a lower mileage 3.9 Classic. The difference in price would only be a couple of grand, assuming yours is a good goer. Whatever you do to yours will cost more than a changeover. a 3.9-4.6 will cost you NEW $5000-7000, and used who knows. How much can you do yourself???

If you can do the work yourself and want to keepo the car, the simplest would be to rebuild your 3.5. But the 3.9 makes an enormous difference to the driveablility of the car . I would go 3.9 personally, but consider the cost of injection etc. ( you may be able to tweak the flapper but people who now know it are few and far between)(
Regard s Philip A

Nope not 5 lt go the 5.7.

Do what ever suits.

If you can justify the expense go the 4.6.

there are plenty of places that can supply a good used 3.9.

look at whgat you want to do with the car then make your decision.

Michael.

How bout an injected 5.0 windsor two grand from trader all go

sounds ok only thing I can see wrong is its a ford.

Should be good but.

Michael.

cloughy wrote:How bout an injected 5.0 windsor two grand from trader all go

Only need to spend another $8k getting someone to fit it and a suitable transmission & adaptor kit to a $10k vehicle, bargain!

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

cloughy wrote:How bout an injected 5.0 windsor two grand from trader all go

Only need to spend another $8k getting someone to fit it and a suitable transmission & adaptor kit to a $10k vehicle, bargain!

Yeah definately work out exactly what u want to use it for! I believe a 3.9lt is a 50% increase on power over a 3.5lt. Which sound a lot to me! Lot cheeper and an extreamly easy conversion!

goodluck

BIg StEvE wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

cloughy wrote:How bout an injected 5.0 windsor two grand from trader all go

Only need to spend another $8k getting someone to fit it and a suitable transmission & adaptor kit to a $10k vehicle, bargain!

Yeah definately work out exactly what u want to use it for! I believe a 3.9lt is a 50% increase on power over a 3.5lt. Which sound a lot to me! Lot cheeper and an extreamly easy conversion!

goodluck

Driven numerous vehicles with 3.9 4.6 etc windsor is cheaper more powerful and if you lot are spending 8k on engine conversion your mad how bout using a bit of nouse and doing it yourself.or let me know and i'll beat the price!!!! ever driven a rr with a windsor, chrysler or supercharged 3.5 didn't think so. my vehicle owes me 12k approx f/r maxi, 110 cv, 35 centipedes, 4.11,twin turbo, high mount, susp. etc cause i do it myself. thers always plenty of alternatives outside the box

cloughy wrote:
Driven numerous vehicles with 3.9 4.6 etc windsor is cheaper more powerful and if you lot are spending 8k on engine conversion your mad how bout using a bit of nouse and doing it yourself.or let me know and i'll beat the price!!!! ever driven a rr with a windsor, chrysler or supercharged 3.5 didn't think so. my vehicle owes me 12k approx f/r maxi, 110 cv, 35 centipedes, 4.11,twin turbo, high mount, susp. etc cause i do it myself. thers always plenty of alternatives outside the box

I won't debate more powerful, cubes is cubes, cheaper?

Buy a brand new 3.9 bottom end for $3k, spend $1k on the 3.5 heads and gaskets, seals etc, bolts straight in to standard box, no adaptor kit.

You can get a low milage windsor for $2k? Adaptor kit, engine mounts, radiator, accellerator & ignition mods & compliancing for $2k?

And you're willing to do the whole conversion for somebody with little mechanical skills, you hardly know for next to nothing? Cool & very generous.

And as far as driving a Rangie with a winsdor V8 or supercharged 3.9, no but you probably haven't driven one with a 454 blown nitrous kitted doorslammer block or jet turbine either. How much is not enough and how much is too much?

i believe you forgot engine assembly and fitment.how many K there. engine mounts are fabbed adaptors are machined from box to motor throttle cable is plain old rover as well as radiator compliance no drama as long as running current adr's of that motor - twin cats and chacoal cannister i'm not saying it's the option for everyone but noone seems to think any different aside from the ol 4.4 or 3.9 4.6

By the way legally you have to compliance your 4.4 3.9 4.6 talk to your transpost authority i'm sure they'll confirm this. how bout your insurance company how bout the cost of setting up aftermarket injection few k there to lots of things forgotten about when people say its a rover its easy

cloughy wrote:By the way legally you have to compliance your 4.4 3.9 4.6 talk to your transpost authority i'm sure they'll confirm this. how bout your insurance company how bout the cost of setting up aftermarket injection few k there to lots of things forgotten about when people say its a rover its easy

Hi, if you contact Adrian in Lilydale Vic at Rangie Automotive he has a new 4.7 stroker with roller rockers gurcle plate bottom end etc brand new for a real good price.last one as the stroker kits have aparently been removed off the shelf, you can contact him on 0397396989, depending on what you are wanting to do with your RR, race etc or just woot around. personally go the 3.9 supercharged.massive torque increase. nothing beats the sound of a blower under the bonnet,its your money. if you call Ad he will explain all you need to know, you will change your mind about thirty time before settling for something that comes a long and grabs your attention.cheers

Hi confused now or what.
Cloughy has some good points about different conversions. I'm currently 4/5 through a Chev conversion just waiting on a new water pump before I push too much further. It hasen't been all that bad. My biggest mistake was not buying a complete engine flywheel to pulleys etc. This has cost me a lot of time and incidental money. I'm lucky enough to be amechanically minded and have done everything including the rebuilt of the engine from ground up. (yeat to prove that it works though).

If you are very shy about you mechanical ability go with a short 3.9 with all your extenal 3.5 bit including EFI. and paying a decent local shop won't cost that much to achive.

Speak with Kurmit who is I believe Adrian at Rangie Automotive. If you want a stinker but strong Rover motor the one last posted sounds great. How does he know his motors are good, simple he races them. He can also effect the instalation.

If you want a cast beast with natural torque like Chev Adrian has also done these and can arrange compliance.

I don't know of a common conversion kit for the F word but with such auto 's as the ZF and 727 they most certainly could be done using the appropiate bell housings from parent factory. Both the Zf and 727 can be very heavily tricked specially the 727 as they have seen extensive drag racing years gone bye.

Question still lays, do you want a tough RR or a brutal Beast, drive to work all week or weekend comp only.

contactable 0413339417

Cloughy Ive heard of that twin turbo rover of your I think!!!

Rosco (Aust) wrote:Hi confused now or what.
Cloughy has some good points about different conversions. I'm currently 4/5 through a Chev conversion just waiting on a new water pump before I push too much further. It hasen't been all that bad. My biggest mistake was not buying a complete engine flywheel to pulleys etc. This has cost me a lot of time and incidental money. I'm lucky enough to be amechanically minded and have done everything including the rebuilt of the engine from ground up. (yeat to prove that it works though).

If you are very shy about you mechanical ability go with a short 3.9 with all your extenal 3.5 bit including EFI. and paying a decent local shop won't cost that much to achive.

Speak with Kurmit who is I believe Adrian at Rangie Automotive. If you want a stinker but strong Rover motor the one last posted sounds great. How does he know his motors are good, simple he races them. He can also effect the instalation.

If you want a cast beast with natural torque like Chev Adrian has also done these and can arrange compliance.

I don't know of a common conversion kit for the F word but with such auto 's as the ZF and 727 they most certainly could be done using the appropiate bell housings from parent factory. Both the Zf and 727 can be very heavily tricked specially the 727 as they have seen extensive drag racing years gone bye.

Question still lays, do you want a tough RR or a brutal Beast, drive to work all week or weekend comp only.

contactable 0413339417

Cloughy Ive heard of that twin turbo rover of your I think!!!

Well at the end of it all,Cloughy has got a point you have to admit. if you are capable to do your own work then give it a shot. there is no point spending 12k + or what have you on a motor to get fitted. your end result will most probably hurt. Adrian is the one to call about your probs. his work is not only race proven but his advice might be of help to you. As for the Chev's well definately the overall ci" takes a win however in high speed comp you need to think of top heavy weight etc etc. Gen 3 LS1 is the way to go in the line of chev, all alloy, efi huge ci" what more can you want.but once again everybody has a diferent application for there truck. so all i say is do waht you feel is right for you. how you spend you MULA is up to you. cheers

Gen 3 LS1 horse power to boot and the light weight advantage. Use the standard Chev adaptor kit and away you go. As listed on a previous threas don't try and drill and tap the top bolt hole in the block missing and you won't have any probs. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Do most of it yourself probably for about 7k moybe less if you know enough people. Sorry don't have 7K

Rosco (Aust) wrote:Gen 3 LS1 horse power to boot and the light weight advantage. Use the standard Chev adaptor kit and away you go. As listed on a previous threas don't try and drill and tap the top bolt hole in the block missing and you won't have any probs. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Do most of it yourself probably for about 7k moybe less if you know enough people. Sorry don't have 7K

Yes, i do agree. i done a chev concersion in my first 2 door. it used to tow like hell. excellent thing it was. 7k is steep but if you want the hp you
ll pay whatever it takes untill us as humans are so called satisfied. we could spend 100k and still require more power etc. our expectations grow more and more. LS1 is a brilliant idea but it costs. what chev have you gone for Rossco?,cheers

You can fit a holden or chev V8 for similar costs to upgrading to a 4.6, and a lot cheaper than upgrading the rover V8 to 5.2 lt.

As it stands I can drive intoany holden dealer plug in the diagnostics and all is revealed. Once they get over the fact its a RR.

It all comes down to what you can justify and what you want.
Nothing else maters.

I have spent way more on my RR than what its worth and more to go, why because I want to.

I did the work on mine myself this always helps.

JUST THINK ON WHAT AND WHY then do what you wish.

Michael.

I love this forum!!!!
people ask a simple question and get the most far out answers

One that nobody has said but I reckon could be cheap and good is a Toyota V8 see http://www.lextreme.com/

It is light, 4 cam, powerful, modern, injected , cheap,and Kalmaker do a GM ECU for it. You can pick up Crown V8 half cuts for $1500-2000. there is a guy in Sydney who has already done it..
BUT the advice I gave was based on the enquirers info that he was not a fabricator and had limited money.
I gotta say I think your dreaming if you think you could install a Gen 111 for $7000 . I reckon 12-15 with all the work yourself, and Graeme Cooper says over 20 if they do it.
Hell I just put a Thor manifold on my 3.9 and I reckon I have spent 50 hours on fabrication.( about 3500-4000 of labour cost)
regard s philip A

Thanks for all the help,

I have talked to Rangie Automotive (Joe) and thats were I got the opinion that i would be best of with a 3.9 tricked out with all the goodies to 4.7. It was mentioned that this would be a more than capable engine. I don't realy know what I want, but at the moment the car is just for everyday driving, going on surfing trips and a bit of a bush bash when funds allow for things breaking. As i'm at uni with little spare funds, I just want a reliable tough engine that I can put the boot into and it goes, whilst sounding shit hot. Later when able I would like to do a few lesser car spanking comps like the pajero or vic winch, not the car wrecking OBC unless i can afford to. In other words I want a nice tough Rangie that is capable but still everyday friendly. I could complete a conversion if it was bolt in and go, its when engine mods are needed that help is needed. I do like the sound of an LS1 rangie! Not in any rush, if something pops up the old (but still strong and reliable) engine will go. I'm not worried about over capitalising as I plan on keeping it for a very long time. Even eventually as a comp truck

im going a chrysler 318 with 727 box.at the moment i run a 318 and 4 speed.made it all fit my self.my old man runs a hot 318 and 4 speed he is going 360 and 727 that was tricked up at home.i run a 727 in a big block charger it runs nitrous never had a problem with it.727 are the go.will set up new motor on aftermarket ecu running holden efi and single turbo.anything i can make i will.it helps when you are a machinist.my bro runs a 3.5 with a old wade blower on top.made it all fit at home.it gos like all hell for a 3.5,pulls 6000 rpm no problem and loves it. make and do as much as you can yourself.it works out cheaper and you get more out of the finished project.