Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Having put the 5in lift in the '96 mod 80's i have been most impressed in its handling and road manners but since an off road trip up at the zigzag railway the old girl gets severe wheel wobble that stops and returns back to normal after stopping to pull over. it seems to occur when the front wheels hit a rough section of road or pothole at speeds above 50 kph aprox. there is no chance of controlling it thru the steering wheel when it happens.

the steering shaft has been replaced from the box back to the uni joint on the inside of the fire wall as the collapsable linkage was broken but it still persists.

It did it with 33's but now happens a bit more with the 35's.

a driveshaft specialist has cleared both shafts as a contributing factor as it really is a steering issue.

you helpful input is much appreciated thanks guys

Check the steering damper, all tie rod ends (ball joints) and swivel pins.

and the wheel bearings.

Al

the nuts on your panhard rod could be loose, your bushes in the panhard rod maybe worn out if they are poly one outing can stuff them, or what the other guy said. Just check all moving parts on the front end there will be tell tail signs of your problem..

the castor was adjusted when the lift was done right ?
have you checked for worn ball joints ?
wheel bearing movement?
wear in the front end bushes?

i had the same problem in a 75 series after finding nothing wrong with ball joints and wheel bearings. i had castor wedges put in in the wheel alignment. and that fixed the problem

This is a common problem in lifted 80's main things to check is to make sure the 4 bottom kingpin/double steering arm studs/nuts on the LHS are tight these have a tendency to fall out on abused 80's with big wheels, ensure the panard bushes are good and only replace with genuine Toyota bushes as the urathane ones are real crap ive come across this and the panard bushes had no visual wear yet the bushes were replaced and the problem went, then steering damper, the usual tierod end check and cracks on the chassis around the panard mount and steering box. Ive come across this problem heaps of times and mostly its the first 2 i listed.

Wally

80UTE wrote:This is a common problem in lifted 80's main things to check is to make sure the 4 bottom kingpin/double steering arm studs/nuts on the LHS are tight these have a tendency to fall out on abused 80's with big wheels, ensure the panard bushes are good and only replace with genuine Toyota bushes as the urathane ones are real crap ive come across this and the panard bushes had no visual wear yet the bushes were replaced and the problem went, then steering damper, the usual tierod end check and cracks on the chassis around the panard mount and steering box. Ive come across this problem heaps of times and mostly its the first 2 i listed.

Wally

I'll add another vote for the first two - especially panhard bushes, they can look fine with no visual play but changing them makes the problem go away.

the lift was done using all snake products ( adj upper&lower arms, dropped radius arms + f&r panards, front dropped swaybar brackets) the guy who installed it said that the type of bushes supplied wasnt too good so il go over it again. may be worth it to just change the bushes in the panhards and front arms anyway.

front diff was fully rebuilt 2 months ago thru insurance so im pretty sure its nothing to do with that. as you say its in the steering somewhere

I just had the death wobbles on the way back from Landcruiser Park on the weekend..... Turned out to be a loose bolt and nut on the panhard bar.

Suggest YOU check all barwork before proceeding on to somehting else

Did u run low tyre pressures???

I ask this cause i spun a simex on the rim and it did the same thing u have described..

It frightened the absolute crap outta me.. had to pull up and clean my daks out..

I got a wheel balance and all good..

Just a thought

the old girls at the panel beaters at the moment for some insurance work but will be sure to check everything you guys have said to 1000 times more again when its back.

unfotunately it doesnt seem as simple as a wheel balance as it did it with brand new tyres the day i got them aswell.

will let you all know the solution asap, thanks guys.

got the beast back from the panel beaters and they neglected to tell me they hadnt fitted the flexable bush to the steering columb just b4 it goes through the firewall. the death wobbles have gone but obvious bump steer still exists.

sent it off to the mechanics and hes pointed out a few things that could do with some attention. as MAVGOG suggested the bushes in the new snake front panhard rod are no good as they have almost 10mm movement when turning the wheel in a stationary position (engine off). hes suggested the ultimate thing to do would be to replace the bushends with HEIM JOINTS as used in drag car applications. there seems to be no question of their strength as hes got em in his 1220 hp drag car ive seen.

he also mentioned that it would be a good idea to try and decrease the relay rods angle buy building an extention bracket off the passenger side mounting point. other than that all other components seem to be in working order

i will speak to an engineer about both these options but would be keen for more feed back from you guys re the above ideas.

Only use genuine bushes, definitly don't use nolathane as it has to much flex. No need for heim joints theyre to harsh on road. Stick with originals you cant go wrong.

how are they harsh on road ? Ps: i got the wobbles back again and i am mad.

would changing the drag link to a beefier aftermarket item do any good ie stiffen it up ?

Hi
What a shit problem to have!
As far as wobbles go, do u mean at speed you cant keep the car online, or do u mean you hit a bump and all hell breaks loose till you pull over???
The later is usually a caster problem....what you can do in the mean time is
1 jack and check wheel bearings
2 borrow some cheese slice rubber and see if it makes a difference
One things for sure, throwing money at it will make you mad and broke....you have to eliminate possibles...get a few opinions.
Andrew

dow50r wrote:... at speed you cant keep the car online...

that's usually toe and/or camber, can be worn out control arm bushes, can be caster related (bad caster -> bad camber). but it's easy to diagnose and easy to fix, any wheel alignment shop should be able to see it straight away, and the 80 is a pretty easy truck to check all steering angles on yourself with a bit of string, a tape measure, a spirit level, couple of jack stands and a helper.

when you hit a bump all hell breaks loose till you basically stop. got the snake radius arms with factory bushes in so shouldnt my castor problem be sorted?
but the panhards have nolathane (apparently snake couldnt get them at the time and i wasnt told ) but the factory ones are softer that nolathane ive been told anyway.
I do have heaps of movement in the front panhard so the heim joints seem like a good fix. i know that will make them almost solid mounted but their bush movement is lateral not vertical and with 5in spring and 35's i dont reckon il notice any extre stiffness. also changing the RTC dampner for a heavy duty standard one with a 16mm shaft (existing is luck to be 12mm).
"WHEN YOU PLAY HARD YOU PAY HARD"

guzzla wrote:when you hit a bump all hell breaks loose till you basically stop. got the snake radius arms with factory bushes in so shouldnt my castor problem be sorted?
but the panhards have nolathane (apparently snake couldnt get them at the time and i wasnt told ) but the factory ones are softer that nolathane ive been told anyway.
I do have heaps of movement in the front panhard so the heim joints seem like a good fix. i know that will make them almost solid mounted but their bush movement is lateral not vertical and with 5in spring and 35's i dont reckon il notice any extre stiffness. also changing the RTC dampner for a heavy duty standard one with a 16mm shaft (existing is luck to be 12mm).
"WHEN YOU PLAY HARD YOU PAY HARD"

You would think the caster would be sorted, but only an alignment will tell you if it is or not....the panny sounds the culpret...get the std one back in there and see if it stops the wobbles...at least then you know the $$ will equal; a fix.
Andrew

chuck the nolethane, get the standard panhard bushes back in there, before you do anything else. although the urethane is harder than the factory rubber, it will have slop in it that the rubber does not. it will flex up better with the rubber too.

also agree only an alignment will tell you if the castor is good or not.

to all those that offered help, i just wanted to let you know that i found the problem. after all the "professionals" that said i had movement in the panhard bush not ONE felt it necessary to check the nuts for tention. having got the wobbles 1 too many times i checked this thread then had a gander under the beast and started checking nut tension and phuk me dead if im lying but the lower panny bolt was 3 full turns loose and the top was 2. went for a drive and its 100% better.

Have decided to go the high steer anyway just to be sure.

THANKYOU MUCHLY.