Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i need a little help from you guys. And please take this seriously, i don't want to see "buy a nissan" or "buy a yota"
i have a 1993 2.8 Deo...... i'm going to take it off the road and do a SAS on the front, and coils all round..... i am thinking of using GQ 2.8 diffs (4.6 ratio..... standard is 4.55) and coils. Any help on what to use and how much i am likely to pay for it would be greatly appreciated!! I have a few grand to play with (eventually) and want to use standard, or close to standard gear for now. I'm thinking standard height springs would probably do the job on the rodeo, but i don't have measurements yet. The little oil burner hauls at the moment.....gets about 8litres/100 on the highway...... and won the mud drags at Rover Park, second outright to Rex's beast........ so i am not going to change engines...... i am planning on running 33's, i think 35's would look odd on mine... and use the 31's as the daily drivers........ guys any help would be great!!

T.I.A


Tony

it currently looks like this............

Fawk i believe diffs will cost you your budget! Anyone wanna tell me im wrong? Not 100% but thought GQ diff set you back a fair bit!

i'm open to any suggestions..... i was aiming for around a grand each diff second hand.......

i've seen gq diffs go for $1200-1500. what about just a front toyota diff?

either way, do your research then go for it!

First thing is to start talking to an engineer now.

Nissan Diffs are strong but large - if you are only running 33's you will probably want more ground clearance - and GQ diffs cost a lot, GU are ridiculous. Hilux are probably the best combination of strength and ground clearance, or if you want something with existing coil mounts you could use 80 series cruiser.

For the suspension, talk to the engineer, and see what link designs he is willing to approve. Rear A-frame and trailing arms (as used on the land rover/range rover) is a good rear end setup. If you could do a 3-link with panhard on the front that would probably be a good setup, since you then have no radius arms (which is often the biggest limiting factor with stock front ends).

i had considered 80 series diffs...... i don't want to do a lux diff in the front because i want coils, not leaf suspension. i was at one stage also thinking about a SOA on the ass end and a lux diff....... but i think i'll go all the way with the coils if i can. I will be doing all of the welding and fabrication myself, saving a fair bit of cash.... i can weld reasonably well, and for the tough jobs, i know a lot of boilermakers who can do the job for a slab I don't even know yet what setup i will use, thats why i am researching it first.

RoeDao wrote:i don't want to do a lux diff in the front because i want coils, not leaf suspension.

There is no reason you cannot cut the leaf mounts off a hilux axle and weld mounts on it for coils and links. The chances of the mounts on a coiller axle being in exactly the right place are pretty small.

In QLD a lot of major mods like this must be done by a certified welder to be engineered.

toyota 80 series or Bundera????? not sure on ratios or what is available for the bundy stuff though.

id look into the hilux diffs

Theyre cheap, and strong enough to handle the power from your 2.8.

Sure youl have to cut the leaf spring perches off and weld on some coil suspension mounts, but as isuzurover said, you probably will have to anyway.

Ive got the rear diff housing complete minus the diff centre out of mine for sale, let me know if you end up going lux diffs ill do you a far better price than $1200.

can get a whole lux for $1200

RoeDao wrote:i am thinking of using GQ 2.8 diffs (4.6 ratio..... standard is 4.55) and coils.

If you want to run 33s on a Rodeo wouldn't you be better of going a little lower?
Have you tried it with 33's yet? They would kill mine but then mine is the petrol so probably different although has the same gearing. The 31's affected my ratios enough to be annoying in the hills.

I tried 33s on mine and even hugely offset I couldn't turn the steering wheel because of the font bar and the mudflap. Much cutting is on the cards

Tony I know you didnt want to hear get a yota or nissan but really why dont you swap for an equal value hilux. That way you have strong enough diffs and a drive train that can be easily, heavily modified. Im sorry to say but in my opinion the std rodeo drive train/mounts are fairly weak and has no advantage over the lux gear. Than all you really need to do is the coil conversion.

Im sure you have thought this opotion through already. but it sounds to me like you will be pouring alot of money into a dead end (because of the lack of major aftermarket accesories) project.

Just a few thoughts from someone that was once thinking of doing similar to a courier dualcab

Adam

As MY45 said, a hilux maybe a better option.

The idea of doing something different to what everyone else has done is kind of cool. But after you've blown your budget, decided you need bigger tyres therefore needing gearing that may or may not be available etc etc.

Have a look in the Other makes section at DAMKIA, he's been going through the same thing.

Coil conversion, diffs, driveshafts, brakes, engineers etc etc on a Rodeo, what's your resale going to be like? would anyone want it after you're done with it?

If you can squeeze 33's on there now i'd suggest doingthat and going for a drive to see what your gearing is like before you spend the $$$

Fawk for a suzi driver your actually writing some common sense! WTF!

Although I think trading to a stronger allround vehicle has its merits. The isuzu/rodeo has done pretty well in some past malaysian rainforest challenge events, running 35-36" tyres. Don't know what mods they had though.

hilux axles - cheap, endless gear ratios. and cut off the mounts and re weld some coil mounts on them.

you're probalby goin to have to cut the coil mounts off any diff you buy to line them up properly with your chassis on the rodeo.

so basically.. .lux axles.. really cheap.... and they have em up to 4.88s or even 5.12 for bigger tyres

if you're worried bout strength... we have haultech cv's or you could go longfields....

buy some coils... bout 200/300 for a good set

and hire an oxy and start cuttin away

oh btw... did you check with an engineer on the legalities of such a mod for your state???

TOM

MY45 wrote:Im sure you have thought this opotion through already. but it sounds to me like you will be pouring alot of money into a dead end (because of the lack of major aftermarket accesories) project.

Problem with this is though that once it has Toyota or Nissan diffs etc then there will be no issues with getting lower gearing in the diffs and brakes and diff locks etc. Only thing would be getting the driveshafts from an Isuzu gearbox to the Nisota diffs. However I wouldn't imagine that to be a problem.
Mind you you can already get all that stuff above cheap enough for Isuzus.

As for other aftermarket accessories like bullbars, winches, sliders, rear bars, long range tanks etc the Rodeo can get them all.

So this isn't a problem.

Even though I wouldn't do this myself I don't think it would be that hard for someone like RoeDao who seems to be a fitter and turner or similar.

MY45 wrote:Tony I know you didnt want to hear get a yota or nissan but really why dont you swap for an equal value hilux.

Some people just don't want a 'Yota badge on the bonnet. 'Yota parts where it doesn't show is OK, and you'll have put in some CVs that won't break...

If I was to approach everything from a purely economic viewpoint I probably wouldn't have any hobbies - other than economics, accounting and checking my bank statements for errors. Sometimes you've just gotta scratch that itch.

Do it!

Scott

NJ SWB wrote:

MY45 wrote:Tony I know you didnt want to hear get a yota or nissan but really why dont you swap for an equal value hilux.

Some people just don't want a 'Yota badge on the bonnet. 'Yota parts where it doesn't show is OK, and you'll have put in some CVs that won't break...

If I was to approach everything from a purely economic viewpoint I probably wouldn't have any hobbies - other than economics, accounting and checking my bank statements for errors. Sometimes you've just gotta scratch that itch.

Do it!

Scott

well said scott!

btw i say lux axles

Mate if I was you I'd go a Hilux axle with a high pinion centre out of a Bundera or 80 Series. A Bundera 3 link straight swap would be economical (you can get disc to disc for around $1K if you hunt around) but Bundera axles are different to Lux's and not interchangeable also spares are now hard to come by, CV's are the same though).
An 80 Series will be too wide for a Deo but you will have much stronger CV's and bigger brakes, all Bundy's, Lux's & 80's run an 8" diff so strength/clearance is pretty good.
Nissan will be too wide not to mention a 9.25" diff which will rob clearance but are very strong.
I'm pretty sure a Deo has a right hand drop diff ??
If your on a tight budget :-
- Hilux axle (you can get these cheap)
- Bundera or 80 Series centre high pinion centre
- snaffle the crossover steering & 3 link set up from a Bundera
Front will be Bundy 3 link with standard crossover steering, coils, HP centre, Lux axles & CV;s.
- driveshaft will have to be modified to fit the Toyo diff flange (no biggy there).
- brakes = slotted & vented 302mm Lux rotors with V6 4 Runner (big) calipers.
This way you have good clearance, reasonable strength, coils and plenty of ugrade stuff available.
The rear I would just ditch the leaves but still use the Deo axle (is it a D-44 or GM corporate) and just do a 4 link coil conversion. Obviously the ratio will have to match the front.
Do your homework, ask questions, measure shit, research everything, eyeball stuff, get quotes, do deals, grease palms, suckhole, beg, borrow & steal plus talk to other dudes who have done a SAS (Trail Talk Isuzu section)

do it do it do it!!!!!


looks like u've put a bit into your deo already, i can understand why u wanna keep goin with it instead of buying what everyone else has already got!! good luck with it mate

Utemad wrote:

MY45 wrote:Im sure you have thought this opotion through already. but it sounds to me like you will be pouring alot of money into a dead end (because of the lack of major aftermarket accesories) project.

Problem with this is though that once it has Toyota or Nissan diffs etc then there will be no issues with getting lower gearing in the diffs and brakes and diff locks etc. Only thing would be getting the driveshafts from an Isuzu gearbox to the Nisota diffs. However I wouldn't imagine that to be a problem.
Mind you you can already get all that stuff above cheap enough for Isuzus.

As for other aftermarket accessories like bullbars, winches, sliders, rear bars, long range tanks etc the Rodeo can get them all.

So this isn't a problem.

Even though I wouldn't do this myself I don't think it would be that hard for someone like RoeDao who seems to be a fitter and turner or similar.

Sorry Utemad i meant things such as crawler gears, dual transfers ect, As if its getting this much $$ put into it it will want to be a big bad crawler oneday Wasnt talking about little bolt-on stuff like bullbars.

MY45 wrote:Sorry Utemad i meant things such as crawler gears, dual transfers ect, As if its getting this much $$ put into it it will want to be a big bad crawler oneday Wasnt talking about little bolt-on stuff like bullbars.

You can get crawler gears for Isuzu transfer cases.

First hit on google
http://www.4x4wire.com/isuzu/reviews/tera/newgears/

Dual transfers in an Isuzu
http://www.off-road.com/isuzu/gearwell.html
Using Toyota gearboxes though

Utemad wrote:

MY45 wrote:Sorry Utemad i meant things such as crawler gears, dual transfers ect, As if its getting this much $$ put into it it will want to be a big bad crawler oneday Wasnt talking about little bolt-on stuff like bullbars.

You can get crawler gears for Isuzu transfer cases.

First hit on google
http://www.4x4wire.com/isuzu/reviews/tera/newgears/

Dual transfers in an Isuzu
http://www.off-road.com/isuzu/gearwell.html
Using Toyota gearboxes though

Thats wat i mean..toy axles toy gear box....may as well just buy a toy imo

the reason i want to do it to the Deo is because i like my Deo i have spent a LOT of time doing to it what i have done already...... i like the reliability of the littlte oil burner and it's running sweet as at the moment!! did pretty good in the mud drags the other night.... And..... it will be different... the Deo already turns heads cuz it's different and it's something that hasn't been done before (to my knowledge anyway)...... it's very capable off road with the locker in the front.... and besides that, i would never get for it what i think it's worth. I have found running gear for it, GQ diffs...... 4.11:1 ratios, but that can be addressed later on. i get all the linkages, panhards, coils, shocks, steering, polyairs, drive shafts...... plus what ever i can scrounge off the underside of it for far less than i would pay for just 2 diffs on their own..... many thanks to Dave at Hardcore 4x4 (03) 9872 3011 Dave has been a huge help so far, and has helped me get the Deo running like a top!! As for dual transfers..... well ya just never know what might happen in the future one step at a time.... gotta stay out of the divorce courts somehow
I think a Rodeo with coils and 8" of lift will do me

one thing that will save me heaps is the fact that i work in an engineering workshop, any shit i may need can be made there...... i have a friend who is a ticketed vehicle builder and is licenced to modify chassis..... that will make it cheaper to get done (a slab of beer) and will make the engineer a happier person. If i go lower in the gearing, i would probably get teralow gears for it.... which is a better ratio than the standard 2.07:1 i think.... the teralows are 3:1 something along those lines.... that would do me i think.

maesure the chassis widths and compare .
if the rod is the same or skinnier in the chassis rails then a gq front could plug straight in saving on axle housing mods and ease of engineering.
what about just soa rear end for now. easy and QUICK.
you would need a traction bar for 33" and bigger, but that is an easy mod compared to designing,making, fitting,changing,fitting, adjusting,fixing a four/five link rear end.
look in the members vehicle section, would you be happy 'modifying' your suspension over 12 months with the rod off the road??
looks like it is your dd at the moment and used offroad regularly.
good luck and post pics.
ps if you use the gq rear housing, axle perches are easy to make/cheap to buy.
consider how new you are to modding 4b's and the task you would be undertaking, it is mammoth
david

modman wrote:maesure the chassis widths and compare .
if the rod is the same or skinnier in the chassis rails then a gq front could plug straight in saving on axle housing mods and ease of engineering.
what about just soa rear end for now. easy and QUICK.
you would need a traction bar for 33" and bigger, but that is an easy mod compared to designing,making, fitting,changing,fitting, adjusting,fixing a four/five link rear end.
look in the members vehicle section, would you be happy 'modifying' your suspension over 12 months with the rod off the road??
looks like it is your dd at the moment and used offroad regularly.
good luck and post pics.
ps if you use the gq rear housing, axle perches are easy to make/cheap to buy.
consider how new you are to modding 4b's and the task you would be undertaking, it is mammoth
david

it is my dd at the moment, but i plan on buying a $200 shitter to get me to work while i play with it....... i am going to get all the stuff i need together before i take it off the road and have it ready to do. I have a couple of friends with GQ's so i will spend a fair bit of time under them taking measurements and pictures so i can fab any brackets i need to do the job. You are right secondly, i am new to modding a fourby like this one, major mods like SAS and stuff.......... got the bug so to speak I was going to do a SOA on the ass end....... but i thought f*#$ it!! go all the way i have a couple of months to get my shit together.... i'm hoping that i can have the thing done in a couple of months..... will take lots of pics.... and ask a shit load more questions.