Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Okay. Melissa and I have decided to get our GQ up to spec. Keeping tourer / weekend warrior for now. Comp truck will come a little later.

The plan is 4" lift, rear 1/4 chop and bar. Reading through the bible and posts, there is that many opinions and advice that I honestly got confused about the right way to set the suspension up. I want it done right the first time, so it's going to professionals to be done. After discussions, this is what is proposed for the suspension:

Coils and shocks. Dobinsons or Lovells coils and Pro-comp or EFS shocks.
Adjustable steering arm
Wizard drop boxes
Adjustable panhards

Move lights to body (lights are in transit)
Install neww rear Cheezy bar, or similar.
Upgrade alternator (preventative)

We are also getting 33' BFG for tour / play until finances are there again for larger rubber for play.

Unfortunately, dollars are not going to stretch to get trailing arms and tie rod at this stage, so they will have to wait.

I am considering leaving off the drop boxes and getting the trailing arms, and run offset bushes until $$ allow for the boxes. The bit that really confused me was the adjustable steering arm. I dont remember anyone advising this, so was a bit skeptical. It makes sense, but I just didnt see anyone advising this.

So any opinions????

HeathGQ wrote:Okay. Melissa and I have decided to get our GQ up to spec. Keeping tourer / weekend warrior for now. Comp truck will come a little later.

The plan is 4" lift, rear 1/4 chop and bar. Reading through the bible and posts, there is that many opinions and advice that I honestly got confused about the right way to set the suspension up. I want it done right the first time, so it's going to professionals to be done. After discussions, this is what is proposed for the suspension:

Coils and shocks. Dobinsons or Lovells coils and Pro-comp or EFS shocks.
Adjustable steering arm
Wizard drop boxes
Adjustable panhards

Move lights to body (lights are in transit)
Install neww rear Cheezy bar, or similar.
Upgrade alternator (preventative)

We are also getting 33' BFG for tour / play until finances are there again for larger rubber for play.

Unfortunately, dollars are not going to stretch to get trailing arms and tie rod at this stage, so they will have to wait.

I am considering leaving off the drop boxes and getting the trailing arms, and run offset bushes until $$ allow for the boxes. The bit that really confused me was the adjustable steering arm. I dont remember anyone advising this, so was a bit skeptical. It makes sense, but I just didnt see anyone advising this.

So any opinions????

sounds good, but I feel that drop boxes or arms are much bette than bushes on a GQ due to how suseptable they are to the shakes.

as for as what coils shocks etc everyone has there oppinion, all I will say dobbinson coils or simmilar are very flexy but sag, megalift etc dont sag as much but like wise you will ned to force it to flex a bit harder....for a dail driver and longevity get the coils with the heavier spring rate IMO

Ps dotn forget the tail shaft

I was told once that only the utes came with adjustible steering rods so perhaps you could pick up one of these from a wrecker and keep the prices down.

Just a thought

Tiny wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:Okay. Melissa and I have decided to get our GQ up to spec. Keeping tourer / weekend warrior for now. Comp truck will come a little later.

The plan is 4" lift, rear 1/4 chop and bar. Reading through the bible and posts, there is that many opinions and advice that I honestly got confused about the right way to set the suspension up. I want it done right the first time, so it's going to professionals to be done. After discussions, this is what is proposed for the suspension:

Coils and shocks. Dobinsons or Lovells coils and Pro-comp or EFS shocks.
Adjustable steering arm
Wizard drop boxes
Adjustable panhards

Move lights to body (lights are in transit)
Install neww rear Cheezy bar, or similar.
Upgrade alternator (preventative)

We are also getting 33' BFG for tour / play until finances are there again for larger rubber for play.

Unfortunately, dollars are not going to stretch to get trailing arms and tie rod at this stage, so they will have to wait.

I am considering leaving off the drop boxes and getting the trailing arms, and run offset bushes until $$ allow for the boxes. The bit that really confused me was the adjustable steering arm. I dont remember anyone advising this, so was a bit skeptical. It makes sense, but I just didnt see anyone advising this.

So any opinions????

sounds good, but I feel that drop boxes or arms are much bette than bushes on a GQ due to how suseptable they are to the shakes.

as for as what coils shocks etc everyone has there oppinion, all I will say dobbinson coils or simmilar are very flexy but sag, megalift etc dont sag as much but like wise you will ned to force it to flex a bit harder....for a dail driver and longevity get the coils with the heavier spring rate IMO

Ps dotn forget the tail shaft

I agree about the offset bushes and they are also made of eurothane and don't flex like rubber does and therefore crack quickly. Mine were shagged after only 5 months when the truck was still a tourer.

As for the springs from dobinsons you have a choice of 3 coil rates. If you have a winch and a lot of accessories then go the middle choice. If you do fairly hard driving then go the hardest choice. Are GQ's different to GU's with reguards to the tail shaft? I have a six inch lift with stock tail shaft and no spacers. If it's a short wheel base on the other hand then you'll need something. Don't forget the gearbox spacers as well.

It is not nessasary to get an adjustable steering arm but extended Braided brake lines is a must. Drop boxes or castor plates are the way to go.

LudaCris

Rear tailshaft just needs flipping around if it is a wagon.

ludacris wrote:It is not nessasary to get an adjustable steering arm but extended Braided brake lines is a must. Drop boxes or castor plates are the way to go.

LudaCris

Rear tailshaft just needs flipping around if it is a wagon.

yeah getting extended brake lines.

I decided on the drop boxes cause they dont limit the movement in the bushes at the front of the radius arm. One thing I have forgotten about is I had 2 degree ofset bushes installed about 9mths ago. Must remember to mention that and get genuines back in there...

What really surprised me was how quickly the budget was gobbled up. We initially wanted to go Wizard panhards, but at over 650 for the two, it just ate it up. We went a cheaper set, figuring its not a comp truck (yet), so I dont need absolute top of the line.

I can see how the steering arm would be 'stretched' by the lift, putting pressure on the joints. And it actually was noted in one thread an adjustable steering arm helped reduce the steering shakes.

SO flipping the tailshaft.... that would put the thinner section over the chassis cross brace, yeah?

Thanks for the comments thus far...

My advice would be to leave the offset bushes in place for the moment, don't get plates or brackets just yet until you see how the rig handles and the amount of caster correction. With the larger tyres you can get away with less caster with larger tyres (sigh... long explanation - pm me if you want more info).

You will only need a longer brake line for the rear, as the old rear one can be used in place of the front one.

Patrols came out with two different tie rods, hunt around the wreckers to find a heavy duty one - these have the rod ends that thread over the tie rod itself, the light duty one has the rod ends threading into the rod itself.

Just get the panhards but leave the draglink, rear lowers as standard. Rear adjustable uppers can help to tune the rear driveshaft flanges parallel. Most of the standard gear is strong enough for average use, despite what the aftermarket suppliers would have you believe...

Have you considered a body lift for a bit more height, with less suspension lift? Easier to keep legal...

Hope this saves you a bit of cash.

Area54 wrote:My advice would be to leave the offset bushes in place for the moment, don't get plates or brackets just yet until you see how the rig handles and the amount of caster correction. With the larger tyres you can get away with less caster with larger tyres (sigh... long explanation - pm me if you want more info).

You will only need a longer brake line for the rear, as the old rear one can be used in place of the front one.

Patrols came out with two different tie rods, hunt around the wreckers to find a heavy duty one - these have the rod ends that thread over the tie rod itself, the light duty one has the rod ends threading into the rod itself.

Just get the panhards but leave the draglink, rear lowers as standard. Rear adjustable uppers can help to tune the rear driveshaft flanges parallel. Most of the standard gear is strong enough for average use, despite what the aftermarket suppliers would have you believe...

Have you considered a body lift for a bit more height, with less suspension lift? Easier to keep legal...

Hope this saves you a bit of cash.

agreed with thr rear, I am running standard gear and will replace with HD stuff if and when it breaks, no point in upgrading for the hell of it.

instead of getting the adjustable uppers i'd go the H/D adjustable lowers
they are the ones that are more prone to damage and they do bend really easy. will also adjust the same to realign the drive shaft

also if u do snap one of these rear link it is like dominos and will snap the rest if ur really into it .. then it will snap ur pinion off
should be ok tho if your not going all out into comps

Area54 wrote:My advice would be to leave the offset bushes in place for the moment, don't get plates or brackets just yet until you see how the rig handles and the amount of caster correction.

Yeah that what I was considering. Leaving for now, if sh$t on-road, we can get them cause we have dosh now, if not needed, I have extra to spend elsewhere. The thing is we want it right from the word go, hence why i'm not doing myself.

Area54 wrote:(sigh... long explanation - pm me if you want more info).

know the explanation, cause I read lots of your tech info.

Area54 wrote:You will only need a longer brake line for the rear, as the old rear one can be used in place of the front one.

happening

Area54 wrote:Just get the panhards but leave the draglink, rear lowers as standard. Rear adjustable uppers can help to tune the rear driveshaft flanges parallel.

I have body lift too, (may be taking out) so increases the distance the draglink has to travel. May again, just suck and see, if needed will get.

Area54 wrote:Have you considered a body lift for a bit more height, with less suspension lift? Easier to keep legal...

have 2" already - bought it with it. I am considering removing, or at least getting approval for it. We are waiting to see how tall it will be... Melissa is concerned about getting Declan in and out.

Hoonz wrote:instead of getting the adjustable uppers i'd go the H/D adjustable lowers they are the ones that are more prone to damage and they do bend really easy.

this is exactly why I wanted the HD lowers. It can be done by welding plate on top, but thats just something else that is technically unroadworthy.



Hows the baking going Troy? Did ya get the recipe right, or waiting for surprise?

I would look at getting the body lift approved before making any mods, much easier for the approval process.

The body lift won't affect the draglink angle or length at all, moreso the steering shaft length and angles of the rag joint. DOT will want to know the angles before and after the body lift - on the Patrol the angles of the ragjoint improve (closer to 180 degree) than stock.

Hoonz is right, but you would be surprised how long the stock ones will last if you are an average careful driver when gettin into it.

One thing I've learnt with the patrols I've done - nothing is ever right from the word go...

Be absolutely certain that the panhards you buy (or anythign else) is approved and passable for fitment by DOT. IE the supplier issues you with stamped serial numbered components with engineers report, materials of manufacture, fitting instructions etc to aid the DOT approval process. PM if you want any more details.

Getting a body lift approved is easier than you think, if done correctly.

HeathGQ wrote:What really surprised me was how quickly the budget was gobbled up...

Welcome to 4wding.

We initially wanted to go Wizard panhards, but at over 650 for the two, it just ate it up. We went a cheaper set, figuring its not a comp truck (yet), so I dont need absolute top of the line..

Whiteline are $200 -250 ea

bogged wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:What really surprised me was how quickly the budget was gobbled up...

Welcome to 4wding. Thanks Bogged.... appreciate the support

We initially wanted to go Wizard panhards, but at over 650 for the two, it just ate it up. We went a cheaper set, figuring its not a comp truck (yet), so I dont need absolute top of the line..

Whiteline are $200 -250 ea

yeah there are a few around for $200 to $280 pending the extras offered i.e. genuine bushes versus poly bushes versus no bushes etc etc

HeathGQ wrote:

bogged wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:What really surprised me was how quickly the budget was gobbled up...

Welcome to 4wding. Thanks Bogged.... appreciate the support

Serious, most things start at a grand.... :(

i just fitted some 3rd's panhards and they are a very good lookin product supplied with genuine bushes,

for around the 260

Deffinately go the HD lower control arms but the reason people use adjustable uppers is the damage you get if the adjustment is on the lower arms. They can get smashed around a bit. If you can't get them straight away then laminate your control arms and replace them when you can afford it or have too cause of damage.

bogged wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:

bogged wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:What really surprised me was how quickly the budget was gobbled up...

Welcome to 4wding. Thanks Bogged.... appreciate the support

Serious, most things start at a grand.... :(

yeah i know - bummer.

I've looked at the 3rds stuff.... just looking at the roadworthiness of the products at the moment....

HeathGQ wrote:

bogged wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:

bogged wrote:

HeathGQ wrote:What really surprised me was how quickly the budget was gobbled up...

Welcome to 4wding. Thanks Bogged.... appreciate the support

Serious, most things start at a grand.... :(

yeah i know - bummer.

I've looked at the 3rds stuff.... just looking at the roadworthiness of the products at the moment....

I can vouch for 3rds stuff, PM me for a price on 3rds, snake or 4ways

B.A.T.C sell approved items for road use

HeathGQ wrote: The plan is 4" lift, rear 1/4 chop and bar. Reading through the bible and posts, there is that many opinions and advice that I honestly got confused about the right way to set the suspension up. I want it done right the first time, so it's going to professionals to be done. After discussions, this is what is proposed for the suspension:

Coils and shocks. Dobinsons or Lovells coils and Pro-comp or EFS shocks.

Get 5 inch Wizard Springs, they sit at about 4inches anyway and you get better travel..look at phil's, rob's etc Dobinsons..there as stiff as shit and have no travel..although pete's are pretty good..

XFACTOR wrote:

HeathGQ wrote: The plan is 4" lift, rear 1/4 chop and bar. Reading through the bible and posts, there is that many opinions and advice that I honestly got confused about the right way to set the suspension up. I want it done right the first time, so it's going to professionals to be done. After discussions, this is what is proposed for the suspension:

Coils and shocks. Dobinsons or Lovells coils and Pro-comp or EFS shocks.

Get 5 inch Wizard Springs, they sit at about 4inches anyway and you get better travel..look at phil's, rob's etc Dobinsons..there as stiff as shit and have no travel..although pete's are pretty good..

Which dobinson springs are you talking about. If they aren't rated for what you want then of course they will either be too stiff or too soft. It's the same with any spring. My dobinsons springs flex really well and the ride is quite good.

Wizard springs are just King springs with Brents specifications and I can gareentee that dobinson springs flex.

It all depends on what sort of springs you ask for.

LudaCris

all depends on what your truck is for now!!!! Dobinsons black coil should be for offroad only as they handle like crap on road yeah kings are harder but for an allround family truckster i reckon they are worth every cent of the $250 per set that they cost. Lovells yeah ive had them and are like kings a great spring (had them in 4inch) and would go back to them in a hurry but if comps are what you are setting up for then go the dobinsons But for all combonations i wouldnt pass the procomp shocks!!! Just a point of veiw

OK. Now that Area54 knows what I've done, I'll talk about it.

I initially wanted to keep everything 'legal', hence Area54's involvement. It will still be happening, but I have a few other little things that may not pass a DOT inspection, and I am slowly building those things up. Actually thinking of buying a different car now.

First off I got Dobinsons springs and Pro-comp shocks from LudaCris. The first set of shocks were wwwaaayyyy too long, so a quick call and Chris was getting me new ones. He fitted them at his workshop the following week. Ramped it up on a towwy and the shock lengths were almost perfect.

Panhards are BATC numbers, repainted by me to better match the spring colours (it actually is a mazda colour). I also got a tie rod from Les cause mine was bent.

So after a bit of dicken around we got it all good. But something wasn't right, cause the rear end was noisy on compression, and the front was higher than the rear. It turned out the springs weren't seated right, and the shock lengths were long enough to allow the top rubber padding to fall out. Both issues were fixed with 30mm spring spacers at the rear.

I kept with the off-set bushes, but after driven for a while, we weren't overly happy with em. So I decided on drop boxes. OMG!!!! it is a different vehicle. Drives like a dream (well for a GQ). A bit more body roll now, indicating the stress that is placed in the bushes that is let out by changing the radius arm locations. And I will have to get the sway bars back on too!!

On-road, now we are happy with it, drive well. Off-road - extremely happy with it, heaps of flex, stable as all hell with the 33" muddies.

I would like to thank
Area54 - Cheers Troy - and I will be going through the approval process. LudaCris - If anyone needs anything, give him a yell, as he has been excellent for me.
Les @ BATC. Give him a yell for panhards, steering arms, trailing arms, drop boxes, all can be DOT approved.

I'll get some photos up as soon as I can.

BATC I had run this gear in my GQ and still use it in my GU, VERY tough and a great price, 4" Dobinson blue for springs and Tough dog big bore adjustable best set I've had so far, the springs have sagged about 30 mm in 3 years of hard work so I put 30mm spacers in.

Pics

Everything is horrible looking except for the new bits. I have been meaning to get in and black paint everything, but havent found it yet.

I am getting some action shots today I think, so I'll see how we go with them.

I am currently looking for a replacement GQ - dark grey or black. This one has rust issues which I dont feel like dealing with. I have one found in Cairns, but not too sure how I will get that here and traded.