Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I know this has been discussed a while ago in the bible but it didn't really go anywhere. Anyone running a front wrap bar? Pics? how did you do it and have you seen improvements?

What are people's thoughts on the single bar to the top of the diff or axle? My rear wrap bar splits and mounts to top and bottom of rear diff and worlks very well. If the single bar works effectively I may try it on the front to save time.

cheers

hilux standard front have one.

i have also posted a thread on this asking the question only a coupla months ago. do a search.

all it will do is limit your travel. as i said in the other topic u were asking about..... U need a stonger back with spring clamps.

a front anti wrap bar is not needed. i have never seen anyone with a modified rig run one..... ever.

they all pull them off if they are factory.

screwy

my clamping method is such that a U bolt is at the front and the rear of the diff, not each side of the spring. The nuts are on top of the leave bolting the origional plate up against the top of the leaf pack. I don't see how this can really affect the loading on the leaf as it is as standard?

just clamping them together means the top one will not bend away from the others.....

measure ur leaves and reply back.

i would like to know the thickness of your individualy leaves.

is it 6mm, 7mm , 8mm , 9mm???

i had a set of brand new aftermarket 6mm ones in mine and they lasted 1 trip.

i now have 8 mm and am not worried about this anymore at all.

screwy

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote: i now have 8 mm and am not worried about this anymore at all.

screwy

is that cause it will never be on the road??????

joking

ozy1 wrote:

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote: i now have 8 mm and am not worried about this anymore at all.

screwy

is that cause it will never be on the road??????

joking

loves it

drove it this arvo fark she goes on 33's

a wrap bar in the front would be not needed at all. Hiluxes have the because of the stupid J arm steering set up.
What is your vehicle doing to make you think you need a wrap bar on the front?
or have you got nothing better to do?

the photos attached show why I was thinking I need a wrap bar. This leaf pack is the Emu Dakar (stamped, Old Man Emu) HD pack, after one trip off road. Not sure if its my setup which has damaged the pack, never happened to my old trusty ancient set. Not sure whats going on, would appreicate all advice.

P.S. I have heaps of better things to do as I still reparing panels from a roll over.

Please no comments on drive shaft angle, it doesn't cause me any problems.

cheers

measure the thickness of that top leave and then post.

if its thin then thats your problem.

now for a start a pack that thick wouldnt flex too well i would think....

aside from that a pack that thick should not axle wrap at all.

an anti wrap bar wont help u and its a waste of time.

a pack that thick is nuts YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANY AXLE WRAP PROBLEMS WITH THAT PACK

its something else thats causeing that. there is no way u could possibly put enough torque into that front diff to cause all of those leaves to move and the top one to bow

u would need a farken boat chev and u would pop a CV first before that.

either u have a problem with the leaves being rubbish or there is another problem.....

which leads me to wat u said earlier about your bump stops.

if u are at full compression witht he leave pack bending slightly up around or bump stop and u apply power while unloading it could kink that top leave.

shorten your bump stops.

i lengthened my rears to enable better stability for the 3/4 elliptical, but have left my fronts standard and i have only ever had leave problems with thin leaves.

screwy

From those pics i agree with screwy, that pack is way to thick to have a wrap problem. Those leaves look like they are only 6mm thick. Is those springs a cheap set, if so that is your problem, they dont sell them cheap if they are a good strong pack.

look at mine

same thing.
full up travel on the numbers coming down from a sand dune.

i have thicker leaves and heavier pack now

ok, spoke with ARB today, they have seen this once before and they attribute it to the diff being pushed backwards under load, causing the top leaf to kink, when the load is off, the leaf lifts away from the rest of the pack causing the gap I see. The problem is magnififed because of the spring over and forward mounted shackles. They said the reason it didn't happen with my old leaves is because they were most probably running with less lift, hence harder to kink, more load on the bolt. The guy recons I gotta do a shackle reversal and look at dropping leaves from the pack so they sit flatter. In the mean time, he's sorcing me a new top leaf $45 which isn't to bad.

You guys agree with the diagonosis?

I disagree.

With a standard shackle set up the front diff flexes down back towards the rear of the vehicle.

when it up travels it flexes forward, the diff goes forward.

therefore he is pulling that shit out of his ass.

A reverse shackle wil mean the up travel is coming back into the guard
and down traveling forward......

i do think he is half right with the under load bit.

if the leave is fully compressed under load and u apply torque to it up against the stop it may bow that top leave up.

mine bowed up cause of the torque on down travel.

i also believe a pack that size should not have that problem

if u run less leaves u r more likely to kink the top one.
when the leaves are flatter than will flex more and hense bend more on up or down travel, making the bow affect greater.

i reckon those leaves are too thin and i think that he is talking from his arse.....

those be the facts

my 2 cents

screwy

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:I disagree.

With a standard shackle set up the front diff flexes down back towards the rear of the vehicle.

when it up travels it flexes forward, the diff goes forward.

Perhaps the ARB dude meant that when the springs receive a compression force from the ground, it is typically directed up and back (cause you're driving forward into something). The fact that the shackle actually pulls the diff *forward* slightly under compression means the rear half of the leaves cops a lot of compression (the front half wants to stretch, resisting the motion of the shackle, so the rear half compresses). Like a plastic ruler then, a leaf may have a tendency to buckle under compression.

Maybe a diagram will help.... in the attachment the car is travelling from right to left. When it hits a bump, the rear half of the spring receives a compression force. You could imagine that if that area were to go flat, or were to invert, it could collapse like a plastic ruler does when you push on its ends.

i also believe a pack that size should not have that problem

But I'd definitely agree with that. I may be thinking along the same lines as the ARB guy, but I still agree that the force there should *not* do what it has done here. The compression force required to buckle all those leaves such that the top one remains buckled would be phenomenal. I'd blame a manufacturing fault, but the only one I can think of that would cause that would be if the top leaf was too long! If it was too long, and had no room to move at the end, when the pack compresses and stretches out, the top leaf could receive more compression than the others as it has nowhere left to stretch.

Another coupla cents for you...

Just in case the PNG file doesn't work, here it is again as a GIF.

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:I disagree.

With a standard shackle set up the front diff flexes down back towards the rear of the vehicle.

when it up travels it flexes forward, the diff goes forward.


screwy

I'm sure the ARB fella understands this. I think his point is that, if I drove into a ditch and the diff was pushed backwards as it compressed the leaf, the buckling effect I have experenced would be caused, hence the reason he recommends a shackle reversal, so the diff can travel backwards as the leaf is compressed.

Good luck to me proving it was a manufacturing fault. Hopefully it hasn't damaged the entire pack. Still seems strange to me, my gut feeling is faulty leaf.

Rosey55 wrote:

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:I disagree.

With a standard shackle set up the front diff flexes down back towards the rear of the vehicle.

when it up travels it flexes forward, the diff goes forward.


screwy

I'm sure the ARB fella understands this. I think his point is that, if I drove into a ditch and the diff was pushed backwards as it compressed the leaf, the buckling effect I have experenced would be caused, hence the reason he recommends a shackle reversal, so the diff can travel backwards as the leaf is compressed.

Good luck to me proving it was a manufacturing fault. Hopefully it hasn't damaged the entire pack. Still seems strange to me, my gut feeling is faulty leaf.

ah yeh i agree now, misinterpretted wat i read. my bad

i can see that this would buckle the leaves back, and reverse shackle would elliminate this correct.

but i also think that as heath said, that top leave may have been too long....

where's my blooming pic? Spent ages on it! Take 3: a JPEG!