Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys,

just a few quick questions, like most bundera owners I am getting sick of the power from my petrol bundy and want to do a engine conversion, instead of the usual commodore conversion I want to do something a little different can anyone tell me how easy and how much it would be to fit either a 1GGZE non turbo, 2.7l EFI or 3L diesel hilux engine, as I most probably won't being doing the work myself where in sydney could i get this type of work done? any info would be greatly appreciated

regards

Dan

Rock Wallaby wrote:Hey guys,

just a few quick questions, like most bundera owners I am getting sick of the power from my petrol bundy and want to do a engine conversion, instead of the usual commodore conversion I want to do something a little different can anyone tell me how easy and how much it would be to fit either a 1GGZE non turbo, 2.7l EFI or 3L diesel hilux engine, as I most probably won't being doing the work myself where in sydney could i get this type of work done? any info would be greatly appreciated

regards

Dan

you'll be disappointed in the 3RZ (2.7 efi), it's not much better than the 2.4. a 1GGZE is supercharged, they are only 2 litre though so although it will go harder than the 2.4, once again not a massive benefit without further tuning. the 7M series (supra) motors are a good option, a bit of a squeeze but oddles more power and oodles of torque at lower rpm. the 3L (2.8 litre diesel) is a direct bolt in but makes less power than your 2.4, so unless you turbo it you have gone backwards. the upside of the diesel is buckets more torque off idle and far better fuel economy. I only know of a few shops that do that kind of work and I have heard horror stories about all of them so I'll wait till someone else pipes up with a good shop.

you could consider a lexus V8, or even a chev 6.2 or 6.5 (turbo) V8 diesel conversion, they would be spendy though as you'd have to change out your gearbox too, and possibly even the rear diff to an 80 series unit.

whichever way you go, don't expect any change from at least $5k, and don't expect it to add much (if anything) to the resale value of the vehicle. Purely economically, it makes far better sense to trade in your vehicle on something more powerful - I'm not saying 'don't do a conversion', but a lot of people do conversions because the journey is important - the enjoy doing the work an d feel justly rewarded when the vehicle is better than it was before. If all you have is a fistful of cash and a wish for it to go faster, you'll always be disappointed with the results - it will cost too much, take too long, and won't go fast enough.

worth a think about it, anyway. best bang for buck conversion in a bundera is (sadly) a commo V6. a V8 is too heavy, too hot, too powerful (will shred your gearbox and diff), the V6 motors are cheap and plentiful and the converison parts aren't too expensive, plus the EFI is simple compared to a japanese engine. Next best is probably a diesel, though the initial outlay is high, the reliability is also high and the running costs are low

cheers

Brian

once again, teh master of Tojo...

De-lux wrote:once again, teh master of Tojo...

dude, I'm still not going to touch you there. no. no way. nuh-uh.

Thanks dumbdunce for your everlasting bundera tree of knowledge you should change your name to bundyguru, i don't think i could ever get rid of my bundy my father bought it from new and he has passed it onto me, I am only doing this so it easier to drive at the moment I get so sick of driving it, what about the 3 litre diesel from the hilux? are they expensive? thank you once again dumbdunce

regards

Daniel

Rock Wallaby wrote:Thanks dumbdunce for your everlasting bundera tree of knowledge you should change your name to bundyguru, i don't think i could ever get rid of my bundy my father bought it from new and he has passed it onto me, I am only doing this so it easier to drive at the moment I get so sick of driving it, what about the 3 litre diesel from the hilux? are they expensive? thank you once again dumbdunce

regards

Daniel

there are 2 different 3 litre hilux motors, with a few variations of each. The 5L is the last of the L series motors, all cast iron, no turbo, no electronics. There is an electronic version (5L-E) which will require the rigging of electronics. It has similar power to the 22R but more torque so it is more driveable. the 1KZ-T(E) is the turbo 3 litre from prados and hiluxes, it will also more or less bolt in (might need bellhousing), but the electronics are a bit frightening, they are fly by wire (no throttle cable) BUT the fly-by-wire can apparently be bypassed, shoot a message to Phill (slowhilux), he has more EFI knowledge than all of Japan put together. The 1KZ-TE is a nice motor, about as good as you will get without direct injection, but if you were going to go down that path, I would suggest getting on to importers and trying to get a 1KD-TE, it is also 3 litre but direct injected and makes similar power and torque to Nissans ZD30 (3 litre navara/patrol turbo diesel), without the reliability question mark of the Nissan motor. Once again an electronics nightmare, you would NEED to get a front cut and spend a lot of time and/or $ sorting the wiring out.

also worth considering is a turbo EFI 22R (22R-ET), should be available from wreckers/importers, they don't make huge power but are very robust and have a small turbo so they make good torque just abour right off idle. The upside of these is obvious - a complete bolt in - and as the engine number does not include the 'T' for turbo, you could potentially get it registered without engineering. The EFI setup on these motors is also relatively simple.

cheers

dumbdunce wrote: you'll be disappointed in the 3RZ (2.7 efi),
cheers

Brian

WHAT

again WHAT

all you have to do is look at mine or BEEBEE's car to reallise that a 3rz-fe is a really really really good motor.

i will be finding tech and specs to back this up, but running a 3rzfe i would not even think about another motor
its the shizal
it bolts stright in and ............
i will be back.

83 lux wrote:

dumbdunce wrote: you'll be disappointed in the 3RZ (2.7 efi),
cheers

Brian

WHAT

again WHAT

all you have to do is look at mine or BEEBEE's car to reallise that a 3rz-fe is a really really really good motor.

i will be finding tech and specs to back this up, but running a 3rzfe i would not even think about another motor
its the shizal
it bolts stright in and ............
i will be back.

jujst don't get slow lux on this thread

thanks once again dumbdunce, i am interested in finding out more info on the 22RET where would be a good place to start looking would you know the power figures from it all? is it a totally different engine or can i just put a turbo on my engine?

83 lux wrote:

dumbdunce wrote: you'll be disappointed in the 3RZ (2.7 efi),
cheers


Brian

WHAT

again WHAT

all you have to do is look at mine or BEEBEE's car to reallise that a 3rz-fe is a really really really good motor.

i will be finding tech and specs to back this up, but running a 3rzfe i would not even think about another motor
its the shizal
it bolts stright in and ............
i will be back.

3RZ-FE: 108kW@4800 235Nm@4000
22R: 75kW@4800 185Nm@2800

ok so it's a fair improvement over the 22R but if you're going to go EFI, you can get more power for less $ with a 7M or considering the cost of the motors even a commodore V6 conversion is more power for less money. No argument that the 3RZ-FE is a good motor in its own right but as a conversion for a bundera, it's hardly worth the time and effort.

Rock Wallaby wrote:thanks once again dumbdunce, i am interested in finding out more info on the 22RET where would be a good place to start looking would you know the power figures from it all? is it a totally different engine or can i just put a turbo on my engine?

probably similar power to the 3RZ-FE but with the potential for turning up the boost if you want more. it was never sold in Australia to my knowledge so you'd have to start with importers. It is internally different to the 22R - you could boost up a regular 22R but it would cost as much as getting a whole engine. you'd have to convert to EFI ot make it run well.

I prolly wouldn't have thought of this option b4 but in latest4x4 trader there is Hilux 2002/2003 3.4 litre v6 engine and gearbox, full conversion avail. 5000km old (not an import) for $5500.
at 3wj (02) 9722 5255

Considering the cost of conversion this would have to be good option as most of it would bolt in.

Dumbdunce might know the power figures.

slosh wrote:I prolly wouldn't have thought of this option b4 but in latest4x4 trader there is Hilux 2002/2003 3.4 litre v6 engine and gearbox, full conversion avail. 5000km old (not an import) for $5500.
at 3wj (02) 9722 5255

Considering the cost of conversion this would have to be good option as most of it would bolt in.

Dumbdunce might know the power figures.

that would be pretty cool but I don't think any of it would bolt in. probably the cheapest way to do that conversion would be to get a hilux rear axle and fit that at the same time, so you could stick with the hilux transfer... I'd put that one in the too hard basket. if you had an older hilux to stick it into it would be cool.. does it come with computer etc?

Would have assumed the computer would be there but can't be sure.
Looking at Dan's original post I see he has petrol motor- I was thinking he had TD which shares the gearbox with the newer Hilux motor.
in any case he could source the TD Bundy rear extension housing and transfer so that part would bolt in- saving many $$$ as with V6 commo conversion.

dumbdunce wrote:

83 lux wrote:

dumbdunce wrote: you'll be disappointed in the 3RZ (2.7 efi),
cheers


Brian

WHAT

again WHAT

all you have to do is look at mine or BEEBEE's car to reallise that a 3rz-fe is a really really really good motor.

i will be finding tech and specs to back this up, but running a 3rzfe i would not even think about another motor
its the shizal
it bolts stright in and ............
i will be back.

3RZ-FE: 108kW@4800 235Nm@4000
22R: 75kW@4800 185Nm@2800

ok so it's a fair improvement over the 22R but if you're going to go EFI, you can get more power for less $ with a 7M or considering the cost of the motors even a commodore V6 conversion is more power for less money. No argument that the 3RZ-FE is a good motor in its own right but as a conversion for a bundera, it's hardly worth the time and effort.

After having first hand experience in two 3RZ-FE conversions I would have to recommend them. It is cheaper and easier than a commodore conversion (we are doing one of these at the moment). For a direct bolt in motor, you get adequate power and good torque. Certainly more than enough to break the rest of the toyota driveline.

And why go the the trouble of chasing up a 22RET (good luck) for the same output of a late model 3RZ which are as common as you'll find.

beebee wrote: After having first hand experience in two 3RZ-FE conversions I would have to recommend them. It is cheaper and easier than a commodore conversion (we are doing one of these at the moment). For a direct bolt in motor, you get adequate power and good torque. Certainly more than enough to break the rest of the toyota driveline.

And why go the the trouble of chasing up a 22RET (good luck) for the same output of a late model 3RZ which are as common as you'll find.

this situation has obviously changed in the last couple of years - last time I tried to source a 3RZ they were approx $4k exchange, no loom, no computer - but that was a couple of years ago at least so there's probably about a million more wrecked hiluxes since then. If they're cheap (say $2k with computer and loom) then the swap makes good sense. Do it. Do it now. I'm convinced.

thanks for all the info guys will start ringing around a few wreckers and mechanics and get some prices i am also toying with idea of doing a few mods to the 22R in america there is a huge range of performance parts for them anyway

regards

Dan

1G-GTE! Got one in my Bundy, 150 kw at 6400rpm, 245 Nm at 3800rpm. Do it with a front cut and you will save heaps. I purchased the engine for $700 from a wrecker (they are cheap as), but spent heaps in making it work, intercooling etc. Ended costing me $5000, and I did most of the work myself. With a front cut yor get everything but the exaust for around $2000-$2500, then it's just the time fitting it all and sorting out the fuel system.

Go for the 1KZ.......you won't look back.

3rz conversion should cost no more than $2500, the wiring can be done by anyone with a bit of a clue on electricals in about 3 hours, easy! and the 22r to 3rz engine mount adaption takes about 20mins ( just need a welder and a drill). one big advantage is they have a great cooling system and the std radiator will be more than adequate.

How much do the 3rz's like to drink dead dino's ??
2500 sounds like a pretty fair price to me .. especially for a nice lil efi motor ..

I'd budget for around $3000 for a 3RZ conversion if I was doing it again. You need motor, loom, computer, alternator, starter motor, power steer pump, clutch, slave cylinder (usually around $2000 if you're lucky up to $3000), EFI fuel pump and filter $200, 22R radiator $350, misc steel for engine mounts, wiring and plumbing. Should push you to the $3000 mark pretty easily.

dumbdunce wrote: worth a think about it, anyway. best bang for buck conversion in a bundera is (sadly) a commo V6. a V8 is too heavy, too hot, too powerful (will shred your gearbox and diff), the V6 motors are cheap and plentiful and the converison parts aren't too expensive, plus the EFI is simple compared to a japanese engine. Next best is probably a diesel, though the initial outlay is high, the reliability is also high and the running costs are low

Hey Brian, maybe you can clear up some of this confusion I have. In Oz, the Bundy comes only with the R151f 5 speed gearbox, right? So have you seen quite a few of these gearboxes shredded up by guys putting a V8 before them? There is a prevailing attitude, possibly false, on the US boards that the R151 is an indestructible gearbox.

I realise some people with the 78/79 and 100 series with R151's have had problems of increased output shaft spline wear that Toyota are replacing under warranty.

Dave

beanz2 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote: worth a think about it, anyway. best bang for buck conversion in a bundera is (sadly) a commo V6. a V8 is too heavy, too hot, too powerful (will shred your gearbox and diff), the V6 motors are cheap and plentiful and the converison parts aren't too expensive, plus the EFI is simple compared to a japanese engine. Next best is probably a diesel, though the initial outlay is high, the reliability is also high and the running costs are low

Hey Brian, maybe you can clear up some of this confusion I have. In Oz, the Bundy comes only with the R151f 5 speed gearbox, right? So have you seen quite a few of these gearboxes shredded up by guys putting a V8 before them? There is a prevailing attitude, possibly false, on the US boards that the R151 is an indestructible gearbox.

I realise some people with the 78/79 and 100 series with R151's have had problems of increased output shaft spline wear that Toyota are replacing under warranty.

Dave

all petrol (and non turbo but I don't think there are any local market non turbo bundys) have the G52 gearbox, which is shredded by anything other than the anaemic engines it comes behind - and even then there are problems with 5th gear idler bearing and premature wear.

turbo diesels to 1989 have R151F, from 1990 on have R150F (which are more or less the same box except for 1 and 2 ratios). There is no doubt that the R151 is a strong box, but it also has problems with synchros (addressed in 1998 (possibly earlier) by the addition of double and triple cynchros to some gears, but most of them with >100,000km are still very notchy/clashy on gearchanges).

there are all sorts of warranty issues with the R151F gearbox in 78/9/105 series - although it is a strong box it is not tough enough to cope with the weight of a fully laden ute or wagon - toyota was obviously playing a numbers game, knowing that most purchasers will never load up the vehicle or drive it hard, reckoning that the occasional warranty replacement of a little gearbox is easier and cheaper than fitting big gearboxes (H150/151) as original equipment.

so - indestructible? no. stronger than a G52? yes much. lots of them shredded by V8's? not really - V8 swaps aren't all that popular as most vehicles that come with the gearbox have enough power or reliability or were bought for economy rather than performance - eg V6 4runner has enough power, a V8 swap woudn't achieve much, 1HZ 105 series is a workhorse and although they see the occasional turbo, this still means only 130kW/380Nm which isn't heaps by V8 standards, turbo diesel bundera well there aren't heaps of them around, but the owners seem to love them for what they are, warts and all.

for my money the gearbox of choice for any landcruiser with an engine conversion would have to be a H150F from an early 80 series - a little bit agricultural but cheap and simple to overhaul and near bulletproof, including a 5th gear in the middle of the gearbox instead of at the end like the R15# and the G52.

Thanks, Brian, thats a load of good info.

Cheers,
Dave

What about a 22re conversion in ur bundy?!

what about a 1PZ 5cyl diesel same as 1HZ but only 5 cyl fits nice as was relesed here in oz called a PZJ73/5 motors about 2500 /3000 bolts up to a r150/1 gear box

ps i have a t/d bundy box for sale if anyone interested pm me

5 cyclinder diesel haven't heard of that one before??, how much would it cost for someone to do a 3rz conversion to my my bundy do i have to put another fuel tank in? thought about the 22RE but if i am going to change engines i would rather put a more recent engine in,

Rock Wallaby wrote:5 cyclinder diesel haven't heard of that one before??, how much would it cost for someone to do a 3rz conversion to my my bundy do i have to put another fuel tank in? thought about the 22RE but if i am going to change engines i would rather put a more recent engine in,

the 5 cylinder is a 1PZ it is more or less identical to the 1HZ but with 5 cylinders. i's not a great engine really but there are turbo kits available and they sound pretty cool.

3RZ conversion should be pretty cheap, under $1000 (plus cost of engine and consumables) drive in drive out if the EFI wiring isn't too difficult and you're prepared to do the tidying up yourself.

Go to this forum and search for 3RZ. Lots of info on the conversion but u can't use a R series gearbox without the Marks Adapter (R gearbox to G/W bellhousing). Guys are using the W56 gearbox mated to a W58 bellhousing. The 2WD T100 is a popular engine source.
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?board=14.0

The turbo 22R engine in North America is a 22R-TE, and comes with a R151F gearbox and a 23 splined input shaft gear driven Tcase. They were issued in 86 and 87 IFS 4x4 trucks, 85-89 2x4 trucks, and 86-89 IFS 4Runners. The 4Runner version only came with an automatic gearbox. The 23 spline Tcase was either a top or forward shift, depending if the truck had a bench or bucket seats.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/

Wouldn't he be better off using a 1KZ-T and its stock bellhousing mated to the R151F in his Bundy?

JR