Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Most would have seen the thread of the coily zuke with hilux diffs i recently bought.

The thing has drove like sh!t from the day I first test drove it....The old owner was used to it, and was able to control it on the road (I still don't know how). But it's still way to dangerous for me to even think about taking it out of my street.

I've put the sway bar back on, put on normal rims and tyres on, and also swapped in some stiffer springs that came with the zook, which improved the bodyroll heaps, but the steering is still up to sh!t.

When you get up to speed, bout 40km/hr it'll start to veer to the left, so you turn right a little (after taking up the half a wheel turn of slop in the steering) it well then all of a sudden turn violently to the right. At which time you stomp the brakes and try to get it going back to the left.

I think the castor is way out (does it cause the above problem?), as the suspension link's were set up when only a mild lift was installed, and it now has a huge susp lift. So we are lengthening the bottom arms soon, to try and sort that bit out.

The steering seems to have a heap of slop in it, about half a wheel turn, where it just does nothing. Well, it doesn't steer the wheels anyway, but it does rotate the drag link (I think that's the right thing) till it max's out the ball joints, then it will start to turn the wheels. It looks as thought this is becuase of the link that come from the steering box fown to the drgalink is on such an angle, that it actaully pushes up and down on the draglink, as well as side to side.

So anyway......whats the best and cheapest way to fix this? A dropped arm of the box, to lower the angle of the rod from the box to the draglink? are these available? how much?

Of make another bracket down near the wheel for the rod from the box to the draglink to attach higher up on??

Or something totally different?

Sorry for not knowing all the correct terms...I'm used to IFS.......

The tie rod connects the two steering knuckles and the drag likn connects the steering box.

It sounds like you need to replace your ball joints and get a wheel alignment done.

The next step is to work out why this stuff has worn out. Age? Abuse? Incorrect geometry?

Probably D, all of the above.

You would also want to check the linkages in your steering shaft/steering column. If the wrag joint or uni that connects to the steering box is worn it will make steering fun.

Also have someone (if you don't know how) check the adjustment in your steering box. Over time gears, bearings etc wear out and need to be adjusted up.

sounds like a castor problem? and looks like u need a decent high steer set up to get rid of those nasty angles, also fix the slop in ur steering box and check ur wheel bearings.

Thanks for all the correct terms SerriaJim

I'll check the steering box and shaft tonight....

The wheel bearings are fine, there is no slop there, and no slop at all between the wheels with them jacked in the air.

I've got new balljoints ready to go in on either side of the tie rod.......should I also replace the ones on the draglink?

The zuke will get a proper high steer setup down the track. The zook came with a 80 series power steer box which I will be installing too.

what size rubber is it running and does it need all the lift it has ??
Obviously its a trail toy .. so loose some lift, and ditch some sheet metal to fit bigger rubber .. The joints will last longer and the vehicle will be more stable .. with few nasty angles etc to work out ..

Its on 31's at the moment....but I'm hopefully getting some 36's for it on the weekend.

It came with a rear set of spring which I have now installed which have dropped the rear down to about 2-3" lift, but all the front springs are huge!! I might do a ring around and see what some smaller coils are going to cost...

Its still registed in the other owners name, so I just need to get it driveable, then road worthied (for as cheap as possible), so then I can start cutting the thing up for the bigger rubbber and a longer wheel base.

TWISTY_TOY94 wrote:Its on 31's at the moment....but I'm hopefully getting some 36's for it on the weekend.

It came with a rear set of spring which I have now installed which have dropped the rear down to about 2-3" lift, but all the front springs are huge!! I might do a ring around and see what some smaller coils are going to cost...

Its still registed in the other owners name, so I just need to get it driveable, then road worthied (for as cheap as possible), so then I can start cutting the thing up for the bigger rubbber and a longer wheel base.

With the proper manipulation of sheet metal .. you should be able to clear the 36's (depending on brand and tyre width) with about 4 to 5 inches of lift

SierraJim has 36's with 3inch spring and 2 inch body lift and some major guard removal .. I think ..

Yeah thats the plan....I stick a 3" bodylift in it.....then as little suspension lift as possible.

Is you 4-5" lift...suspension and body? or only susp?

They are 36x12.5 swampers on 15x8's.......not sure on how I will do the front yet, but the rear will be cut off, with a tube ute kinda setup done, and will be extending the wheel base too.

TWISTY_TOY94 wrote:Yeah thats the plan....I stick a 3" bodylift in it.....then as little suspension lift as possible.

Is you 4-5" lift...suspension and body? or only susp?

They are 36x12.5 swampers on 15x8's.......not sure on how I will do the front yet, but the rear will be cut off, with a tube ute kinda setup done, and will be extending the wheel base too.

I would run a liitle more lift and a little less bodylift .. say 3 in the springs and 2 in the body, as a bodylift that tall will put alot of stress on the bodt and chassis mounts ..

Seach for sierrajims build up of his Zuk .. sounds alot like what your doing .. (except with leaves and nissan diffs)

I'm running 50mm springs (rears all round) with leaves removed, 2" body lift, lots of trimming and 36x12.5's.

I do rub on full compression on the firewall. That will be resolved soon with some extra width

i run 37's with 5 inch of lift

only just so slightly nicks the firewall on full compression and hard lock

id say ur coils will have more uptravel then leafs so good luck

Seems you´ve got most of the answers Twisty, but check your wheel offset as well; if they´re too offest to the outside they might be contributing to the problem. I used too have a Jeep set up nicely with every single part in the steering new, and no slack anywhere, right caster and nice nearly horizontal draglink. While running 10 x 15 bias ply Goodyear Trackers on standard wheels widened on the outside only to some 8 or 9 inches, the Jeep was a horror to drive on road; jumping any which way. After I mounted a set of 33 x 12.5 radial muddies on whitespokes that were more evenly offset in and out, the Jeep changed totally, became the straightest tracking vehicle I´ve ever had.
You should definitely try to lessen the angle of your draglink and don´t forget at the same time to do the same with the panhard bar: it´s essential for good steering that they be as parallel and equal in length as possible. Go for at least three degrees of caster but watch your lower u-joint angle when you twist the axle.
A tip for all you guys using Saginaw (GM) power steering gears: The pitman arm from a Buick Special ´63, and probably some other GM cars from that era, has an unusually good drop in it, best I´ve seen in any original pitman arm.
Ingthorsson.

OK I KNOW THIS ZOOK INSIDE AND OUT...

ok.. your castor is way out....

your drag link is not inline with your panhard.

now a drop pitman arm will help (i have one for sale) but it will not solve the problem.
you really need to go histeer.. either buy a kit or find some bundera steering arms and relocate the relay rod to the rear of the diff, the draglink tstays at the front , and relocate the panhard to match.

this is definently the way to go ,as when you wheel it hard you will notice the tie rod ends snapping due to the flex..

you need high steer like this

and also that drag link bolted to the tie rod is verry dangerous

mine steers fine and has hardly any play at all

you may think about rotating your steering knuckles to get the correct caaster whilst retaining a straight line from your diff centre to the transfer.

RB zook wrote:
and also that drag link bolted to the tie rod is verry dangerous

why is it dangerous?

it comes stock like that on a LOT of cars



wheck ur steering box for the play in the wheel
my red one used to do it but found it was a loose bolt on the box (no not the ones that hold it to the chassis)

ohh btw ryan looks like some one has welded a bit of 6 mm plate to the bottom of your rear diff

its dangerois because it puts diagonal downward force on the tie rod end there where it threads into the tie rod

it can snap at the thread there

I'd say you almost certainly have zero or negative caster. Looks like you do need hi-steer too, but I don't think its the main cause of your problem.
Does it have any return to centre action? I've driven a coily with standard front arms and a 125mm lift and it was friggin terrifying. Blip the steering to turn in, hold the wheel straight ahead, and then blip it back again to go straight. It had no return to centre.

If you want to fix it cheap, you should look at checking your caster first. A wheel alignment shop will be able to check it for you, or you could buy an angle finder and meaure it yourself.

You could shorten the top link, or lengthen the bottom arms to fix the caster if it is wrong, or rotate the knuckles. Changing the arm length might throw out your pinion angle, but theres a pretty good chance thats wrong anyway judging by how well set up the steering is

You're going to have to mod the panhard bar if you put in hi-steer too. If you get the drag link parallel to the ground you're going to actually introduce bump steer. You'd need to move one of the panhard mounts to get that level too.

Ben

for play in the stering wheel there is a threded bolt ontop of the steerinf box with a lock nut use a flat blade screwdriver to wind it clockwise abit

than tighten the locknut again.

also check to see if balljoints are all tigt and there is no play in the links

how ur streerin get that fucked?
i got air in my zook.. and it never gets that bad

and a wheel balance and wheel alignment and tighten the wheel bearings up a bit and it all goes back to normal

lol

Check the bushes in the link from the chassis to diff housing, when bushes are flogged can make the car wonder suddenly, compare your photo to that other one and you'll have a good idea what needs doing for all links at the front of your car.
my 2 cents.

BenT wrote:I'd say you almost certainly have zero or negative caster.

If you want to fix it cheap, you should look at checking your caster first. A wheel alignment shop will be able to check it for you,
Ben

Ben I would put cash on your diagnosis being correct,
Twisty, take it to your local tyre joint and get them to check caster and dif aliainment. approx $30 the test (15 mins) will tell you what is wrong, but I am sure some caster correction is in order, the drag link angle is shitfull, but the main problem from that will be bump steer, your symptoms say check the caster, keep us posted.
Peter.

droopypete wrote:

BenT wrote:I'd say you almost certainly have zero or negative caster.

If you want to fix it cheap, you should look at checking your caster first. A wheel alignment shop will be able to check it for you,
Ben

Ben I would put cash on your diagnosis being correct,
Twisty, take it to your local tyre joint and get them to check caster and dif aliainment. approx $30 the test (15 mins) will tell you what is wrong, but I am sure some caster correction is in order, the drag link angle is shitfull, but the main problem from that will be bump steer, your symptoms say check the caster, keep us posted.
Peter.

like i said.... i know this car... it has no castor....

The thing is getting it down to the wheel alignment place safely....


One of the sets of springs that came with it look like that have been shortened with a grinder....so I've decieded I'll cut these down a bit more on the weekend to reduce the lift as much as possible. Which should fix a lot of the problems.

If it doesn't i will then start to play with all the links.

Then after I get a road worthy for it...I'll start to quiz you all again with how the links should be setup. It's going to get redone front and rear, as it has really got an ugly setup on it......but hey it only owes me just over $3k now....so I can't really complain.

Thanks for all the advice everyone

ok guys listen to what mub4b has been saying he knows this car and what the problem is so i think you should just do what mud4b has been saying and you should be right on the money

flyinwall wrote:ok guys listen to what mub4b has been saying he knows this car and what the problem is so i think you should just do what mud4b has been saying and you should be right on the money

Flyinwall, drop the plural there is only one person who can fix this

sorry bout that droopypete just had a few too many swigs out of the black and gold bottle

So.....

I decide to come to the zook section and stir you all up(there is a reason I am over in the dark zone btw )


Dave, you put a V8 in a 4Runner but can't go over 40kmh in the new/old zook


Drag that thing down to the tyre shop and check the wheel alignment and castor. After that you can come in here and abuse anyone who asked you to spend $30 on a check-up

BTW at the same time, while you are in the tyre shop ask for Nikko(the love god) and ask them if they found his zook....

Peter


mud4b, you contradict yourself with your posts by saying that the problem is the castor is way out and then saying that it has no castor



My solution.....

Swap me the locker for an lsd and that will fix all your problems Dave


P.S.

This was intended as a shite stirring post, if you take offence please PM me though I ask you to leave the gate on your way out

I beleive Dave will back me for havin a bit of fun so

Just sayin Gday to the toy truck society cause thats where I'm headed atm

high n mighty wrote:

mud4b, you contradict yourself with your posts by saying that the problem is the castor is way out and then saying that it has no castor

yeah well.. it has none... so technically that means it is way out..



Just sayin Gday to the toy truck society cause thats where I'm headed atm

about bloody time you woke up to yourself and got into a REAL truck

Well, we found the major cause (beside the no castor) for the truck sudddenly changing directions when at speed.

When the Vitara power steering box was fitted to the chassis, no crush tubes we welded in so the chassis has crushed in around the bolts. I tightened the bolts up for a quick run and it was sh!tloads better.

I ended up borrowing a mates 35's (Bias Claws) on the weekend to see how they fit, so didn't get around to lowering. But it fits the 35's sweet as, with no scrubbing at full lock.........when its not flexin anyway.

Heres a pic....