Air to air or water to air intercoolers?

[DanielS]

thought i would get some feed back on this, I'm looking at up grading my intercooler and currently run a safari unit. There are two options, a big (head light to head light) air to air custom unit OR PWR water to air unit.
Any feed back would be great, thanks.

[chimpboy]

Air cooling needs you to be travelling at speed to work effectively, which is often not the case when you're 4WDing. It's not a sensible option for an off-road vehicle imho.

Jason

[toughnut]

I have a PWR water/air intercooler on mine. I haven't used an air/air intercooler so I don't know what the difference would be but I do know that mine works whether I'm mobile or not. Here are some pics.


It's now plumbed into it's own radiator.

[DanielS]

it looks nice n tidy , What kind of boost are you running thru that toughnut?

[bigpat]

Air-air is the go for lots of highway kays, & little simpler.

Water -air is go if you dunk your truck in the mud, as the mud will clog up the air-air core, or get pierced, particularly if front mounted. And if hit with the Gurney afterwards, will only bend the fins at stuff it up more....

Also cools better when crawlin in the woods, but never thought intercooling was an issue when crawling around in low 1st anyway!

Cheers,

Pat

[T.B]

I have to agree with pat, air is great 4 highway use. The so called problem of them not working as well when in the bush can be overcome with the use of thermo fans that can be turned on when needed. The other problem you need to watch is the size of the unit. Too big, and you end up with lag. I would be cautious on going too big, you need a big output turbo to be able to push enough air through the big intercooler and into the engine to make it responsive. Otherwise you end up with lag. Big is not alway's better. The small 4 cylinder cars you see geting around with big intercoolers r 4 show. When they do the dyno tests on these cars, the results look good because they test the car at high revs, and when the turbo has already started to work to it's max. Therefore it makes no sence to have an intercooler that only works when you are neer max boost, when a smaller unit can provide cool air at an earlier stage of boost. I hope this can help you. I have yet to work with water, so I can't comment. T.

[morkz]

what about refridgerant gas ?

i.e. plumb your closed intercooler into the return line of your air con alot more denser easier to setup than water to air and much more efficient.

some people i know are working on this and once its finished the results will be interesting it has already been done on a blown rangie and they picked up something 20kw at the wheels.

alot of the comp diesel running over 160kw mainly just have a air to air intercooler and they're not that big mainly the size of the grill either on a gq or gu.

[awill4x4]

I've made a couple of custom top mount air to air intercoolers for GU Patrols and they have worked well. For my next project however, I would like to build a water to air unit just for the sake of curiosity. I've recently been in contact with Adrad who build the best intercooler cores bar none and their water to air cores are now available for custom build ups. I have no idea of cost at this stage though.
I'd like to build one similar to Heath Lawson's GU but without the custom plenum/inlet manifold. The intercooler core on Heath's GU looks magnificent.
Regards Andrew.

[bogged]

I've made a couple of custom top mount air to air intercoolers for GU Patrols and they have worked well. For my next project however, I would like to build a water to air unit just for the sake of curiosity. I've recently been in contact with Adrad who build the best intercooler cores bar none and their water to air cores are now available for custom build ups. I have no idea of cost at this stage though.
I'd like to build one similar to Heath Lawson's GU but without the custom plenum/inlet manifold. The intercooler core on Heath's GU looks magnificent.
Regards Andrew.

make me one

[heathgu]

How much do you want to spend?
What do you mainly use the truck for?

Water to Air intercooler will cost you around double the Cost of any Air-Air intercooler. But yes you incur more Lag.

My custom Water Air Intercooler as Andrew was saying has the inlet Built into it. Very effecient but expensive all the same. Just depends what you want.

Try research ARE Web site good information.

How are your intercoolers going Andrew are the Water-Air Popular down south.

Also i do not think the PWR intercoolers are efficient enough for big horse power applications. Just from my research and opinion.

Cheers Heath.

[DanielS]

How much do you want to spend?
What do you mainly use the truck for?

Water to Air intercooler will cost you around double the Cost of any Air-Air intercooler. But yes you incur more Lag.

My custom Water Air Intercooler as Andrew was saying has the inlet Built into it. Very effecient but expensive all the same. Just depends what you want.

Try research ARE Web site good information.

How are your intercoolers going Andrew are the Water-Air Popular down south.


Also i do not think the PWR intercoolers are efficient enough for big horse power applications. Just from my research and opinion.

Cheers Heath.

at the moment we looking into running around 24psi of boost, its main use is going to be weekend comp truck(winch challenges etc) have you got any pics of your set up? it would be interesting to see it. The pwr unit i was looking into was a big unit (about 8 by 10 inchs), bigger than what they run on standard turbo diesels.

[DanielS]

what about refridgerant gas ?

i.e. plumb your closed intercooler into the return line of your air con alot more denser easier to setup than water to air and much more efficient.

some people i know are working on this and once its finished the results will be interesting it has already been done on a blown rangie and they picked up something 20kw at the wheels.

alot of the comp diesel running over 160kw mainly just have a air to air intercooler and they're not that big mainly the size of the grill either on a gq or gu.

Morkz this sounds very interesting, but whats the power trade of with running the air con compressor all the time?

[bogged]

running around 24psi of boost,

[DanielS]

running around 24psi of boost,

yeah i have been taking to some people about that kind of boost and the results that can be gainned . i will post the before an after dyno numbers when i get it done.

[04muf]

Have a look at the ARE Web Site there are photos on that.

Cheers

[toughnut]

it looks nice n tidy , What kind of boost are you running thru that toughnut?

Sorry for taking so long. I'm running 15lbs of boost through this. The good thing about these PWR barrel type intercoolers is you can't really go so big it will creat lag, but it still flows very well.

[awill4x4]

Here's some pics of Heath's core and intercooler/inlet manifold configuration from ARE's site, note the orientation of the tubes, it's opposite to what is currently used in air to air setups (and indeed PWR's water to air unit) with water running through the tubes. I have recently received some literature from Adrad the core manufacturer where the core has been pressure tested to 550 psi where the welds holding the endtanks failed and not the core itself.
This is one seriously good core, I have a sample from Adrad and it's also used for oil coolers as well.
An interesting thing to note is the splitting of the water flow, with one pair of tubes being fed cold water from the front and one pair of tubes being fed water from the rear before both going to the seperate header tank.
This intercooler by ARE is a work of art, I'm in the welding industry and not easily impressed but this is goooooooooooooood work indeed.
Regards Andrew.

[bigpig]

Great idea but with a motor at 90deg cel and an intake temp of approx 180deg cel don't you think it would be easier to cool it if you had a cooling temp of 28deg cel then water spray over the air to air inter cooler with less fuss an problems

[awill4x4]

Sorry BigPig, you miss the point. It doesn't use the engine coolant it uses its own dedicated water supply and has its own radiator up front, as well as the engine coolant radiator. Water sprays are OK but in an offroad vehicle you may need to carry a lot of water. We built a waterspray tank for a rally Evo 7 Mitsubishi Lancer and they were using 20 litres of water in a 20Km stage.
Regards Andrew.

[bogged]

dry ice setup or go home

[DanielS]

awill 4x4 that is a nice set up and is finished of really well. how much did that total system cost?, Im very interested.

[awill4x4]

Sorry Daniel, much as I would like to take the credit it isn't one of mine. It's built by Richard Anderson of ARE (Aluminium Radiators & Engineering) in Qld.
The write up is on this page http://are.com.au/Inter/air_to_water.htm along with a whole heap of great info on water to air intercooling.
I 1st saw Richards work about 5 years ago and I decided then that I wanted my weld quality to be just like his, I think I'm just about on par with them now on actual welding quality but his attention to detail is 2nd to none anywhere in the world. He is the sort of guy I would enjoy working for in welding and fabrication, pity he's in Brisbane and I'm in Melbourne.
This intercooler setup is on Heath Lawson's GU and he's posted on this page so give him a pm, heathgu is his username.
Regards Andrew.

[bigpig]

i have also tried dry ice and it works good for slow or fast running

[toughnut]

Just a bit hard to keep it for an 8 day comp though

[bigpig]

not if you have a fridge that can stey at 5deg or lower

[toughnut]

Still working out where to fit it on the truck for comps I have just have to drink rum as well cause the beer would be a bit shaken up

[bogged]

Just a bit hard to keep it for an 8 day comp though

I dunno, the bins I used to pick it up from at ICI botany used to last the store in Newcastle a week +, I only delivered once a week, they always had some in stock!

[Team Carpet RC Vehicles]

Might be out of place here but.... I have a sd33T that I would like to run a top mount intercooler on.. Just alittle standard supra or soarer one 250 x280 x70 or simular.. is this a good idea... How do I mount the thing and does anyone know where I can get one... Ebay has nothing this small???

[GQ4.8coilcab]

Excuse me toughnut, is that a PWR water to air barrel. I am thinking of one of those. I think Cass Jones runs one of those but a bit bigger. Are they efficient. What is the surface area in one of those. If you had a bigger radiator, would it work even better, what about a bigger pump. I havent seen the inside of the barrel yet. Is it core, or is it hollow and the water flows around the outside to cool it down. If it is done that way, it would not be as efficient as a front mount. If you can answer any of these questions, much appreciated.
Cheers julian