Outer Limits 4x4 Board

looking for some advice on getting more front end flex, cheaper ways if possible, i think my 6 in dobson springs spring rate is too high, how can i test them and how will i know what to order to fix the problem?
cheers

Ive tryed all diffrent spring rates and brandes to get more flex as well as drop brackets to castor plates(all of which are in my shed if anyones keen to buy) and dont seem to get much more so i think the next step will be 5link (not 4 me as i think i might sell my truck) try GQ as he seems to get good flex in the front from pics ive seen

Measure how thick the wire of your coils is and count how many turns it has? Do you have much weight at the front? Do you get much body roll?
Probably be what he said
Shane

Any nissan with radius arms will always seem front heavy and will flex around the rear instead. Even with the 3rd's radius arm that I have it still does this but definately not to the same extent. The reason for this is that the axel twists when it drops down hence the reason you need to do castor correction even for the smallest of lifts. When you drop one end of the axel down it wants to twist forward and when the other side lifts up it wants to twist backward. So having two attachment points (bushes) on each arm tries to counteract the twist of the axel so the radius arms are fighting each other and therefore limiting flex. You can definately go the 5 link direction which will make it the same setup as the rear but it will be fairly unstable at speed so if you mostly go touring then this is probably not the best idea. If you do more off-road driving than on-road then this may be a good option. Things you can do before you go to that extreme are:
Use rubber bushes instead of eurothane
Use softer springs
Use drop boxes or dropped radius arms (without these your radius arms are already at a sharp angle in the chassis mounts)

Just some options you can try.

also with from what i have found when i have gone to a softer but more stretched spring(without weight ) it swayed and steered like crap but ive setled on king springs in a medium duty to take bar and crap on the front of my rig
Apart from GQ try members cars and see whos getting flex and ask what they have done cause im shore people will help you out with ideas as people try lots of diffrent things One that comes to mind and also seems up to date with keeping his truck legal is AREA 54 he will prob be more then happy to help you out
Cheers Jamie H

just in response to tuffnut i have tryed in the past what you have mentioned and just cant seem to get that bit more than average (if you know what i mean by average) but also to my attack i have also tryed to keep some on road behaviour as why i ditched the dobinsons and went to kings but like allways its all a compromise.
Just an idea stuff the travel and go twin lockers as if you lift a wheel you still got forward momentum
Cheers tuffnut for the reason why you dont get big travel from the front it makes sense now

sorry bout spellin TOUGHNUT

Who cares. It's late on a Sat night and I'm still home on the computer.

4WD Stuff wrote:Measure how thick the wire of your coils is and count how many turns it has? Do you have much weight at the front? Do you get much body roll?
Probably be what he said
Shane

16mm thick, 12 coils, no real weight at the moment, just a turbo, compressor, not even a bar at the moment, not a heap of body roll, i've had the springs for about 3 yrs, they were 6 in but i think they've dropped to about 4 in, that'd make a difference, and just a question, don't they have a lifetime warranty for droop?, im sure the bloke how sold them said that?
cheers for ya help

from what ive have got to know dobinson 6in coils start at 7in and drop to about 5 after 12 months

not2.8 wrote:from what ive have got to know dobinson 6in coils start at 7in and drop to about 5 after 12 months

did you find the dobinsons softer than the kings?

My dobinsons were pretty much 6" when first fitted but have dropped about 1". There are 3 sizes of spring from them as well. I went with the middle for the front and the softest for the rear. I'm thinking of stepping up the rear to get a bit more movement in the front. I lift the front passenger wheel if I drop the clutch at the moment cause it sits back on the drivers rear.

option you can try...

do a poor mans 5 link - look up the 'DirtPig's GQ' member thread.. some info in there ...

make sure your shocks are the correct length to suit your spring extension

If shocks are longer.. run a brace along them or extend the cones.

with the poor mans 5 link... id recommend you only take the modified arm with you in the toolbox/boot/luggage area and change it over when you're ready to do some wheeling etc. as its definitely not recommended for road use (read - insurance)

Actually... reading your thread once again... you have a 7 inch coil lift.. means you're running castor plates (the 6/7 degree ones ) which means you could do another way... which is basically using the passenger bolt on the radius arm at the front (read FRONT) not the rear bolt... remove the nut and drill the bolt to accept a pin so that you can remove the pin and the bolt before you go wheeling as it will stop front end bind due to only one radius arm operating and the 6/7 degree castor plates will allow enough room for the radius arm without the bolt to freely move without much hassle (the 4 inch ones wont be able to do that if i remember)

Now that ive mentioned the above... Doing anything will be at your own risk.. Ive been told by various people that 'its friggin dangerous and i wouldnt do that' but seeing a few vehicles with that setup with no issues at all is a different opinion.

But speakin to those drivers.. they'd go the 5 link if they could.

In reference to another post above about a 5 link being very vague on the road... ... a PROPERLY set up 5 link wont give you any issues on the road... basically the bolt on 5 links i believe give you dramas....

Ive read a few about cheezy's 5 links (thou he doesnt work with the public anymore ) but you may be able to order via his distributors as they seem to work very very well for road use etc.

Hope that info helped...


TOM


TOM

not2.8 wrote: Just an idea stuff the travel and go twin lockers as if you lift a wheel you still got forward momentum
Cheers tuffnut for the reason why you dont get big travel from the front it makes sense now

I tend to agree with this. Ive got a 3 inch lift (4Way coils and Rockcrawler shocks) on my SWB GQ, and the front has a pretty ordinary flex about it.
The Air Lockers up front seem to cancel out the front suspensions short fall in the flex department.

Rod

whats a 5 link?

rOd wrote:

not2.8 wrote: Just an idea stuff the travel and go twin lockers as if you lift a wheel you still got forward momentum
Cheers tuffnut for the reason why you dont get big travel from the front it makes sense now

I tend to agree with this. Ive got a 3 inch lift (4Way coils and Rockcrawler shocks) on my SWB GQ, and the front has a pretty ordinary flex about it.
The Air Lockers up front seem to cancel out the front suspensions short fall in the flex department.

Rod

Agree from my IFS experience.

Sometimes people get so wrapped up in the pose value fo travel when really if it gives forward momentum anyway who gives a sh1t?

16mm thick, 12 coils, no real weight at the moment, just a turbo, compressor, not even a bar at the moment, not a heap of body roll, i've had the springs for about 3 yrs, they were 6 in but i think they've dropped to about 4 in, that'd make a difference, and just a question, don't they have a lifetime warranty for droop?, im sure the bloke how sold them said that?
cheers for ya help

Woe they are some soft coils. If you are not happy with flex with these, your only option is 5 link etc. Are you sure it is 16mm wire? Don't you have noticeable body roll with these coils.

i have also tryed to keep some on road behaviour as why i ditched the dobinsons and went to kings but like allways its all a compromise.

It isn't the brand of springs that are different. Kings and Dobinsons use the same steel, yes manufacture can play a part but only a tiny winy bit in this case. It is the spring rate of the spring you were sold. (Probably because you wanted MORE FLEX). Try and get brands out of the question and concentrate on your spring rate. Other factors are how thick the wire is and how many turns in the wire. The thinner the wire the softer the coil the more it is likely to sag. The more turns it has the softer the coil the more it is likely to sag. But you are right it is a compromise. I agree also with everything toughnut has said.

My supplier gets Dobinsons or Lovells to build coils to his specs and has done so for many years. His heights start at 7 inch then settle to 6 inches or there abouts. This of course depends on the weight on your vehicle and how soft you want the coil. They are $180 a pair delivered.
Shane

Thanks to everyone who replied, i think i've decided against the 5 link, because i like speed events as well as crawlin, and yes i do have air lockers f + r, ill just replace the coils with some new 7 in ones so they settle about 6 in. cheers again everyone.

Beastmavster wrote:

rOd wrote:

not2.8 wrote: Just an idea stuff the travel and go twin lockers as if you lift a wheel you still got forward momentum
Cheers tuffnut for the reason why you dont get big travel from the front it makes sense now

I tend to agree with this. Ive got a 3 inch lift (4Way coils and Rockcrawler shocks) on my SWB GQ, and the front has a pretty ordinary flex about it.
The Air Lockers up front seem to cancel out the front suspensions short fall in the flex department.

Rod

Agree from my IFS experience.

Sometimes people get so wrapped up in the pose value fo travel when really if it gives forward momentum anyway who gives a sh1t?

AGREE
Also to much flex (droop ) see you stuck with a wheel dropped in a hole or against a rock when you could of driven it !


Bazzle

Nisspatrol wrote:looking for some advice on getting more front end flex, cheaper ways if possible, i think my 6 in dobson springs spring rate is too high, how can i test them and how will i know what to order to fix the problem?
cheers

I can Supply Haultech Engineering Slotted Bushes to suit GQ Radius arms for $200+Freight the set. I Currently have these in stock. This will free up the front end and allow a lot more flex than you are currently getting.

RUFF wrote:

Nisspatrol wrote:looking for some advice on getting more front end flex, cheaper ways if possible, i think my 6 in dobson springs spring rate is too high, how can i test them and how will i know what to order to fix the problem?
cheers

I can Supply Haultech Engineering Slotted Bushes to suit GQ Radius arms for $200+Freight the set. I Currently have these in stock. This will free up the front end and allow a lot more flex than you are currently getting.

Can u elaborate on these slotted bushes a little more. What do they look like how do they work?

Nissan also supply slotted bushes. But the same price I think.

RUFF wrote:

Nisspatrol wrote:looking for some advice on getting more front end flex, cheaper ways if possible, i think my 6 in dobson springs spring rate is too high, how can i test them and how will i know what to order to fix the problem?
cheers

I can Supply Haultech Engineering Slotted Bushes to suit GQ Radius arms for $200+Freight the set. I Currently have these in stock. This will free up the front end and allow a lot more flex than you are currently getting.

Mine are overdue for replacement. Im very interested to know more about these slotted bushes. Any pics by any chance Ruff??

Here's a pic of the old and new nissan radius arm bushes

Thanks for that mate!

So these Nissan slotted bushes are $200 a set??

To be honest I don't know.

Snakeracing have similar bushes on there website for $140 set.
http://www.snakeracing.com.au/newproducts.html
They also have sloted bushes for teh trailing arms for $120 for a set of 4.

dont know how good they are just found them last night when doing some research.

turps wrote:Snakeracing have similar bushes on there website for $140 set.
http://www.snakeracing.com.au/newproducts.html
They also have sloted bushes for teh trailing arms for $120 for a set of 4.

dont know how good they are just found them last night when doing some research.

Good stuff, this dude is only about 15 mins from were we live.

Ruff
These GQ bushes should go on an 80 series or is it the GU bushes that go on an 80 series.
Shane

RUFF wrote:This will free up the front end and allow a lot more flex than you are currently getting.

Sound interesting, any chance of before fitting and after fitting shots on em?

same with any of em?