Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just wondering if someone could let me know, if I was doing an extremely short tow up a steep drive way could I use Low Range without locking in the front hubs and being in 4wd
Or would this cause damage

Mere

that is fin as you are not going to get wind up due to the front free wheeling

Thanks for that Tiny
don't want to wreck the MK
and only wanted to reverse a caravan up a driveway etc.

Mere

This is one great reason to have a transfer case. Not only will you be able to handle the load more easily, you'll have more control as well.

And yes, as Tiny says, it's harmless unless you lock the front hubs.

Jason

Depending on how heavy the van is, and how steep the drive is, and how regularly you do this, you may want to consider mounting a temp. towbar on the front of your truck. We had the same sort of issue when I was living in a house with a really steep drive way and used to reverse a 3t boat up. Didn't take long for the front diff in the 80 series to die (though this is a known weakness with the 80)

this is a vehicle with free wheeling hubs, this means the front diff is totally disconmected from drive. I would not suggest using low range for the same purpose in a full time 4wd

yep it will be fine, i always use low range when im pulling my boat out of the water at the local boat ramp

Thanks heaps for all the input guys
It always worried me, but just kept forgetting to ask

Mere

MereMale wrote:Thanks heaps for all the input guys
It always worried me, but just kept forgetting to ask

Mere

wont have a drama

Tiny wrote:this is a vehicle with free wheeling hubs, this means the front diff is totally disconmected from drive. I would not suggest using low range for the same purpose in a full time 4wd

as long as you disable the centre diff lock interlock (in the case of 80 series, pull one plug off the transfer case) then you have low range, with the centre diff still open, so no transfer windup + low range crawl + good turning circle.

not sure how you'd go with other full-timers (rangie?)

Couldn't you wire in a switch into the plug so you don't need to unplug anything from the transfer case?
My 80 is parttime so it dosn't bother me, but if you are going to be doing this regularly a switch must surely make life easier.

dumbdunce wrote:

Tiny wrote:this is a vehicle with free wheeling hubs, this means the front diff is totally disconmected from drive. I would not suggest using low range for the same purpose in a full time 4wd

as long as you disable the centre diff lock interlock (in the case of 80 series, pull one plug off the transfer case) then you have low range, with the centre diff still open, so no transfer windup + low range crawl + good turning circle.

not sure how you'd go with other full-timers (rangie?)

Dumbdunce is right, but you will get two tenths of three fiths of f**k all wind up going up a driveway. A mate of mine tried this in a forestry Toyota years ago & it took him 26km of hard driving to blow the transfer. I even worked on a Jackeroo once which had been driven from sydney to canberra in high range with the hubs locked, he came to me with gear selection problems. all I did was jack the front wheels up & when the wheels topped turning backwards it shifted out of high range easily.

As far as reversing heavy loads everything stated above applies as well as its easier on the clutch to use low range.

mkpatrol wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:

Tiny wrote:this is a vehicle with free wheeling hubs, this means the front diff is totally disconmected from drive. I would not suggest using low range for the same purpose in a full time 4wd

as long as you disable the centre diff lock interlock (in the case of 80 series, pull one plug off the transfer case) then you have low range, with the centre diff still open, so no transfer windup + low range crawl + good turning circle.

not sure how you'd go with other full-timers (rangie?)

Dumbdunce is right, but you will get two tenths of three fiths of f**k all wind up going up a driveway. A mate of mine tried this in a forestry Toyota years ago & it took him 26km of hard driving to blow the transfer. I even worked on a Jackeroo once which had been driven from sydney to canberra in high range with the hubs locked, he came to me with gear selection problems. all I did was jack the front wheels up & when the wheels topped turning backwards it shifted out of high range easily.

As far as reversing heavy loads everything stated above applies as well as its easier on the clutch to use low range.

but do you want to run the risk of breaking something in the line? or weakening it from stress and one day blow something 4wdriving?

better safe than sorry

Thats what I am saying, you wont break anything, hubs in/out, or constant 4wd or not. Not for that short a distance & the low gear ratios in low range help component like the clutch because you wont be riding them as much.
This is why prime movers have dual range sometimes triple range gearboxes forthis very reason.

There is no real risk.

mkpatrol wrote:Thats what I am saying, you wont break anything, hubs in/out, or constant 4wd or not. Not for that short a distance & the low gear ratios in low range help component like the clutch because you wont be riding them as much.
This is why prime movers have dual range sometimes triple range gearboxes forthis very reason.

There is no real risk.

yes they have many "ranges" but they are not running a 4wd vehicle. by unlocking the hubs of a vehicle with free wheeling hubs it is fine, but a full time 4wd in low range will put the centre diff lock in unless you do as dumb dunce has explained. the chances are in a full time 4wd vehicle that it would not break anything, but if you consistantly reverse a trailer up a drive way in revers with a full time 4wd vehicle you are running the rick of weakening the tranfer and remaining drive train which may lead to a breakage. this may not be on the drivway but next time you are in the scrub tackeling the nasty stuff you may just break that weekened CV. why say that something that may lead to damage is no problems rather than letting peoiple knoe the issues and letting them make an assesment as to whether it is worth risking something or not.

Your not Boggeds alter ego are you?

THERE IS NO RISK, it takes a severe case of axle wind up to break something. As soon as the centre diff lock is disengaged the minute bit of pressure which MAY be there will be released. There is more tension & pressures involved in everyday driving/towing.

mkpatrol wrote:Your not Boggeds alter ego are you?

THERE IS NO RISK, it takes a severe case of axle wind up to break something. As soon as the centre diff lock is disengaged the minute bit of pressure which MAY be there will be released. There is more tension & pressures involved in everyday driving/towing.

I understand what you are saying, but CONTINUOUSLY putting small strain on the drive train WILL weaken it

Got a quastion for you, have you got lockers front & rear in your GQ?

mkpatrol wrote:Got a quastion for you, have you got lockers front & rear in your GQ?

nope, the point?

Point is that a great variety of people run lockers with very little problems. A fully locked 4WD going up a rocky hill places far greater loads on a drivetrain than an unlocked 4WD because the ability of the wheels to slip. Both diffs locked can produce a great amount of wind up in a transfer case weather the wheels are spinning or not. Most of these high grip situation place high load on the drivetrain as if you require lockers then you usually have a very heavy right boot to match which magnifies the situation.

Pick your usual Sunday after fishing, reversing your 16ft 1000kg boat up your 10 degree driveway. You will be using light throttle input & will be going softly on a paved surface with no wheel slip (once a wheel slips & then grips again is usually where the damage happens). Even though the load is reasonably heavy it is not placing strain to the magnatude of the scenario above. Hence the load would be within the normal operating perameters the vehicle was designed for therefore little or no more risk of damage to the drivetrain.

There would be far greater risk of breaking something with the boat on when you dumped the clutch at the lights to keep up with the traffic.

With every vehicle there is a risk of breaking something due to unforseen circumstances but breaking something due to axle windup in this situation would be extremely low.

Im trying not to sound nasty here either, just trying to tell it how it is.

i think the original question has been answered. As far as driving in low range 4wd on hard surfaces, i seriously don't think it will do any harm unless the distances are great. But i guess some people might prefer to use low 2wd to drive up something like shown in the pic "just in case" it might damage their transfer if they use 4wd on the hard, smooth surface.

Tojo wrote:i think the original question has been answered. As far as driving in low range 4wd on hard surfaces, i seriously don't think it will do any harm unless the distances are great. But i guess some people might prefer to use low 2wd to drive up something like shown in the pic "just in case" it might damage their transfer if they use 4wd on the hard, smooth surface.

Point taken,

Did you see the movie of a Chevy Blazer or something similar losing control at the top of a hill like that & crashing front first into the ground Scary stuff.

mkpatrol wrote:Point is that a great variety of people run lockers with very little problems. A fully locked 4WD going up a rocky hill places far greater loads on a drivetrain than an unlocked 4WD because the ability of the wheels to slip. Both diffs locked can produce a great amount of wind up in a transfer case weather the wheels are spinning or not. Most of these high grip situation place high load on the drivetrain as if you require lockers then you usually have a very heavy right boot to match which magnifies the situation.

Pick your usual Sunday after fishing, reversing your 16ft 1000kg boat up your 10 degree driveway. You will be using light throttle input & will be going softly on a paved surface with no wheel slip (once a wheel slips & then grips again is usually where the damage happens). Even though the load is reasonably heavy it is not placing strain to the magnatude of the scenario above. Hence the load would be within the normal operating perameters the vehicle was designed for therefore little or no more risk of damage to the drivetrain.

There would be far greater risk of breaking something with the boat on when you dumped the clutch at the lights to keep up with the traffic.

With every vehicle there is a risk of breaking something due to unforseen circumstances but breaking something due to axle windup in this situation would be extremely low.

Im trying not to sound nasty here either, just trying to tell it how it is.

like I said I uinderstand what your are saying, but it is still a risk, and that risk should be explained for people who may not understand and then wonder why something broke.

Tiny wrote:

mkpatrol wrote:Point is that a great variety of people run lockers with very little problems. A fully locked 4WD going up a rocky hill places far greater loads on a drivetrain than an unlocked 4WD because the ability of the wheels to slip. Both diffs locked can produce a great amount of wind up in a transfer case weather the wheels are spinning or not. Most of these high grip situation place high load on the drivetrain as if you require lockers then you usually have a very heavy right boot to match which magnifies the situation.

Pick your usual Sunday after fishing, reversing your 16ft 1000kg boat up your 10 degree driveway. You will be using light throttle input & will be going softly on a paved surface with no wheel slip (once a wheel slips & then grips again is usually where the damage happens). Even though the load is reasonably heavy it is not placing strain to the magnatude of the scenario above. Hence the load would be within the normal operating perameters the vehicle was designed for therefore little or no more risk of damage to the drivetrain.

There would be far greater risk of breaking something with the boat on when you dumped the clutch at the lights to keep up with the traffic.

With every vehicle there is a risk of breaking something due to unforseen circumstances but breaking something due to axle windup in this situation would be extremely low.

Im trying not to sound nasty here either, just trying to tell it how it is.

like I said I uinderstand what your are saying, but it is still a risk, and that risk should be explained for people who may not understand and then wonder why something broke.

Everythings a risc.

mkpatrol wrote:

Tiny wrote:

mkpatrol wrote:Point is that a great variety of people run lockers with very little problems. A fully locked 4WD going up a rocky hill places far greater loads on a drivetrain than an unlocked 4WD because the ability of the wheels to slip. Both diffs locked can produce a great amount of wind up in a transfer case weather the wheels are spinning or not. Most of these high grip situation place high load on the drivetrain as if you require lockers then you usually have a very heavy right boot to match which magnifies the situation.

Pick your usual Sunday after fishing, reversing your 16ft 1000kg boat up your 10 degree driveway. You will be using light throttle input & will be going softly on a paved surface with no wheel slip (once a wheel slips & then grips again is usually where the damage happens). Even though the load is reasonably heavy it is not placing strain to the magnatude of the scenario above. Hence the load would be within the normal operating perameters the vehicle was designed for therefore little or no more risk of damage to the drivetrain.

There would be far greater risk of breaking something with the boat on when you dumped the clutch at the lights to keep up with the traffic.

With every vehicle there is a risk of breaking something due to unforseen circumstances but breaking something due to axle windup in this situation would be extremely low.

Im trying not to sound nasty here either, just trying to tell it how it is.

like I said I uinderstand what your are saying, but it is still a risk, and that risk should be explained for people who may not understand and then wonder why something broke.

Everythings a risc.

absolutly, but if you understand and aknowledge the risk and make a decision bases on the pros and sons then its up to you. if you choose to reverse up the drivway way in low range in a full time 4wd frequently becouse the sefety for arguments sake outways the risk of a breakage then fine go for it. just IMO its is better say "the risk of breakage is minimal but possible" rather then "yes do it it is fine"

mkpatrol wrote:Your not Boggeds alter ego are you?

THERE IS NO RISK, it takes a severe case of axle wind up to break something. As soon as the centre diff lock is disengaged the minute bit of pressure which MAY be there will be released. There is more tension & pressures involved in everyday driving/towing.

your the kind of person that should be banned from giving people advice about anything.

Shadow wrote:

mkpatrol wrote:Your not Boggeds alter ego are you?

THERE IS NO RISK, it takes a severe case of axle wind up to break something. As soon as the centre diff lock is disengaged the minute bit of pressure which MAY be there will be released. There is more tension & pressures involved in everyday driving/towing.

your the kind of person that should be banned from giving people advice about anything.

Why is that?

mkpatrol wrote: THERE IS NO RISK

according to toyota, nissan, holden, ford, rover, and the rest of the world, there is a risk you could dammage your drive train.

Just because you believe the risk is minimal and the likelihood of dammage is small, doesnt mean you can say THERE IS NO RISK.

You didnt answer my question about why I shouldnt give advice.



In answer to your thing about the manufacturers, do they say not to drive on hard surfaces or just to not drive on hard surfaces for a long distances?

So far no one really proven me wrong with any proof. I have been a mechanic for 16 years, so I think I know a little bit about the subject.

don't forget that wind up will only occur when the front & rear wheels rotate at different speeds. Ie travelling around corners etc. If all four wheels are travelling staight on a hard surface, wind up will not occur.

For a straight line reverse up a driveway (while I agree there is a risk, all be it very small), I don't beleive that it would cause any damage.