Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i know this subject has been touched on a fair bit, and i have been reading alot of posts about it. i recently just bought a set of 2" raised coils for my swb vit. i also got two 15mm and two 30mm coil spacers.

now for the question.
im trying to decide which end to put the 15mm and which end to put 30mm, any help?

and one more question.
at the same time i was changing the coils i was going to do the rear shocks, i've herd about cressida shocks any ideas?

cheers tim

15mm in front.

by the way that + 2" raised coils is a hell of a lot of lift (unless your 2" lifted coils is dobinson or OME 30mm).

Cressida shocks that I used are MX62 cressida sedan ones and are available at any supercheap (or any yota wrecker).

They should be about 300mm compressed and about 630mm extended.

They're as long as you can do without an a-arm spacer.

You will also probably find out that you will need to wire in your rear shocks or extend bumpstops as even with +2" coils the cressida shocks have enought travel for them to drop out under extreme conditions.

wouldn't it have been better to get all the some size spacers that way you have the same lift in the front and the rear

It may be to do with the rear is coils and the front is IFS. The rears go up further i think.

cheers

Nah the fronts go further up with the smaller spacers due to the IFS.

the front IFS has a lift ratio of about 1.5":1". so 1" at the coil, will be 1.5" total at the wheel. so a 15mm spacer at the front is almost the same as a 30mm at the back.

the rear is 1":1" lift. also vl/vp/vn commo shocks are good too. they may be easier to find. i was looking at a pair at supercheap for about $60.

i haven't heard of 2" lifted coils for a vit, unless they are custom made (ie: king springs etc etc.)

so, put the 15mm in the front, the 30mm in the back, and just look for some longer shocks which have a pin top and eye bottom mounting position. you may not want to go too long in the shocks, so its a bit of trial and error.

and wring in your rear coils is pretty easy. even zip ties will do.

good luck and have fun. dont forget to take pics before and after, and post up.

i bought em second hand off gonzo and there the spacers he had, i forget which way he had em.

i dont think i want to put the 30mm spacers at the front because i dont want to put to much stress on the cv's (does that sound plausable)

by the way that + 2" raised coils is a hell of a lot of lift (unless your 2" lifted coils is dobinson or OME 30mm).

the coils are king springs and i think i measures to 50mm lift

are there any other opions to the cressida shocks, perhaps some with not so much travel as not to drop springs.

cheers tim

dude, did you even see my post?

sorry i was typing my reply to beast while you did yours but you have all the answers anyway.

cheers tim

Sorry to jump in here without any advice but I plan on doing a 2in sus 1in body on my Vit within the next few weeks.

Wouldn't 2in lifted springs and coil spacer up front be too much for the cv's?

I just seems from whats been said in some previous threads that 2 inches is the maximum spring lift unless you use the calmini gear.

Dan

? i thought anything over 3" would put cv's i jedardy, any input from the more seasoned and knowlagable 4wders would be great.

ok. it all comes down to where and what terrain you drive, and how hard-core, or care-less you are.

i have had a 3" suspension lift, by means of: stock struts with 60mm spacers, stock coils, with 60mm spacers, and NO mount flip. this was very usuable, and worked great for me. only ever busted one CV in this set up, and the other CV i busted, i had the mount flipped.

the rear: i had coils that gave a 2" lift with a 1" coil spacer. no upper control arm spacer, and long shocks will one day lead to ball joint failure.

people will always give advice on the safe side, so that everyone can be happy campers. 3" max with IFS lift, and then you will be able to break CVs on call. 2" will be near perfect. also consider strut length, as i used to always bottom out the struts, or top out. but now, its all good, and sits about half way.

i will be doing a 5" suspension lift when i get back from holidays. this will test the limits of anything stock.

HexarDan wrote:Sorry to jump in here without any advice but I plan on doing a 2in sus 1in body on my Vit within the next few weeks.

Wouldn't 2in lifted springs and coil spacer up front be too much for the cv's?

I just seems from whats been said in some previous threads that 2 inches is the maximum spring lift unless you use the calmini gear.

Dan

It's not how much lift more how much droop... if you squeeze over 3" lift in you'll have no downward travel.

You can basically get about 3" more downward travel than stock, but the amount varies - some find any more than about 60mm busts stuff all the time. It's a bit of a lottery.

Most people who have regular breakages form the front is due to hyperextension of the CV's. one potential solution is to use the longer GV CV's - but you have to be careful with spline count....

40mm (OME struts) or 30mm strut top flip is perfectly safe. But if you're raising 70mm, that means you're losing 30-40mm of travel which is not great for stability reasons.


1" body lift can be cleared with almost no mods (except ditching the sock gearbox boot and the bottom isolating rubbers). More than that gets to be more work due to the captive stud arrangement).

2+1" will clear 30's with ease. 31"s is starting to push your driveline pretty hard. Beyond 31"s may cope but from here on in it's a tradeoff on clutchlife and offroad speed.

Also 70mm lift will generally place more strain on the diff housign which is alloy and weak. Expect to say goodbye to it.

My option would be to go with bodylift and suspension lift rather than trying to overdo it on the suspension side (thats what I did with no CV failures and no diff breakage on 31" rubber and some bloody hard wheeling).

As a bonus then you can do what sikid has done and tank lift as well.....

oh man, this front suspension thing is almost worn out.

anyway, a stock standard vitara will not be able to bottom the front struts out due to the spring rate used. unless you jump the vitara, and the coils compress to the bumpstops.

if you never plan on jumping a vitara, you will have about 1" of up travel, or compression that will rarely be used if ever. so flipping the strut mount will lower the shaft and allow for an extra inch of down travel.

i have 4" of up travel, and 4" of droop on the front struts with my current set up. on level ground (driveway) my struts sit half way.

so what exactly are people wanting? i'm willing to test it all out for them, as i have standard struts, OME struts, Coil spacers and strut spacers.

do you just want to lift a vit to fit larger tyres? or do you want the IFS to actually do something? when you own an IFS rig, you soon come to understand that asking too much of the IFS will result in tears, then blood, then sweat. so acheiving a good compromise is best. and also letting the rear end do all the flexing.

ok, so its not about the lift, its about the droop. how much droop do you want? if you have heaps of droop, you will have next to no up travel, and so bottoming out on the maccas carpark speed bumps may become the norm. obviously the struts are a set length, stock, and 30-40mm longer for the OME, so you need to work out what the measurements are from stock, and preserve it through out all suspension mods done.

in a stock set up, you have 1" of unused up travel, theoretically, and so by flipping the mount, you should have full range of movement through the strut. (using all available travel)

buy the OME kit, and and the struts are 30mm? longer than stock? ok good, but the coils which come with them will lift ride height 30-40mm also. depending on what the coil is like, either light medium, or heavy duty, you are basically back to stock movements and measurements.

i have about 4" of droop on the front, and i have found this to work well, and not have things pulling apart. if i put another inch of droop in, i can tell you i will break CVs. i know, as i have tested 5" of droop, you can actually feel the balls binding, and dimples will form in the cages. a good way to tell, jack the car up, support chassis, and let the front drop as far as it will go. then spin the tyres and note how easily they turn. if you can feel resistance, or binding, then its too much droop.

also, if the arm were to drop too much, the drive shafts will be pulling apart, and this is where most breakages are. also look into the fact that the lower arm uses a ball joint to hold the knuckle on, so too much droop may pop the ball joint out of its socket, much like the rear upper ball joint.

i'm not trying to be a smart a$$ or anything, but i've been trying to sort my IFS out for a long time now. so far, i have kept the stock travel movement, and have a 3" lifted ride height. that is all for now, but working on a good alrounder set up, which should have good movement, and give a good and safe working angle for the CVs, and enough to clear my 33"s.


to fit 31"s, i think a 2" BL, and a 2" suspension lift will be good. this provides good movement of the IFS, and as well as good clearance for the 31"s. a 3" BL will definately clear 31"s. absolutely max would be a calmini 3+3 lift, with 3" BL, and 3" suspension lift. the thing is, its hard to match the quality and background knowledge of calmini. they also have replacement arms and components to get the most out of the kit.


there are a lot of other factors too, something along the lines of the front alloy diff housing, and its strength and stress points, strut length and coil matching, coil spring rates, and lower front arm limitations. i'm trying to work out what length coils to get made up, and what the spring rate should be. i would need a coil which will give 3-5" of lift, with a softer rate than factory. now i already know this may be a problem in the front, but i will be looking into it.


if you want something hardcore, get a sierra and be done with it. if you want a good handling car, get a lotus elise. theres only a couple of reasons why you would by a vitara, and thats the extra space compared to the sierra, and more so with a LWB, and the price tag obviously. if its cheap, then no one realy cares if its a vitara.

i'm sorry for the long post, but there needs to be more tech and not just the usual 'i want to lift my vit, what should i do?' and 'if i put this much lift, will i blow CVs?' if you are going to ask questions like this, then do a search first, i think BEASTMAVSTER has answered the same question with the same answer about a million times or more.

I agree that the question has been answered a million times over on this board. I have really appreciated all the tech info that both SiKiD_01 and Beastmavster have supplied as it has helped me make a decision as to what my setup will be.

I wasn't going to say anything on here until alarm bells started ringing when I read that offroad_always was going 3in of suspension.

Perhaps a sticky thread could be posted with links to the threads that have discussed this topic before.

Thanks again
Dan

ya thanks alot guys, i do know that you that you have answered alot of questions uber number of times, i did say sorry at the start of the thread.
i think ill try the springs and spacers to start with and some rear shocks, maybe some ome shocks later. we'll se how that goes and if its putting to much stress on the front end, ill just take out the spacers.

thanks again for the info guys.
cheers tim

Keep us posted as to how the setup works for you.

Hi Guys,

Only one thing to add. Make sure you get a wheel alignment after your lift.

I have lifted mine by adding 30mm spacers which has given over 50mm of total lift.

When I went to get the wheel alignment, they had to add camber bolts to get the camber back to where it should be.

Rides like a treat now! The steering is awesome. Well worth the $$ to get the alignment spot on.

Cheers

Clive

That's a point that you have tm make with the coil spacers - the front IFS is NOT a 1:1 relationship... Kim has gotten over 50mm from 30mm spacers.

Worth considering... and yeah the suspension on the vitara cannot be adjusted up more than about 30mm before it needs camber bolts or some other amendment. Many dont bother but it makes a big difference.

Even my mav shorty with 2" lift is slightly higher than ok for camber, but for the couple of mm out I'm not gonna bother fixing it cos the springs will sag that much.