Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Yep twice in about two months yay! Cracked the housing again. I'm so super happy. Luckily it is warrantied, but it still means going through the process of taking it out. Also managed to do the drivers side hub also.

Not replacing it with another feroza diff. Going to be off the off road for a while but will return hopfully with some Toyota running gear

Thats All

How did you bust it this time
Doing the same thing as last time

Yeah, front wheel came off the ground and spun up real fast and then hit the ground at max revs and bang. It was all over. The casing just isn't strong enough.

Dangerous Dave wrote:
Not replacing it with another feroza diff. Going to be off the off road for a while but will return hopfully with some Toyota running gear

Thats All

Way to go Dave!

I think that batshiz is putting in a 22r, tranny and xfer this weekend from his $100.00 Hilux. Axles to come later.

Let me know if I can help.

I want coil type suspension ie. not leaf spring. I was thinking Toyota Bundeera Diffs or even 80 series but I recon they'll be big $$$. Can you recommend anything? What are those Fox Shocks work the ones that are the spring and the shock in one?

Do you know if there are any site around that have the information on doing such a conversion? I don't want anything too fancy motor wise either just something that will do the job well.

Dangerous Dave wrote:I want coil type suspension ie. not leaf spring. I was thinking Toyota Bundeera Diffs or even 80 series but I recon they'll be big $$$. Can you recommend anything? What are those Fox Shocks work the ones that are the spring and the shock in one?

Do you know if there are any site around that have the information on doing such a conversion? I don't want anything too fancy motor wise either just something that will do the job well.

The V-6 diffs are a little stronger but they all fit the same 8" axle housings. The 4cyl. 8" diffs have three fins on the housing and the V-6's have four. The IFS rigs have a 7.5" in the front and an 8" in the rear. People run V-8's with the 4cyl. diffs...just not heavy on the gas or they will pop. They are plenty strong for a 4cyl. and you should NEVER break one. The 8" V6/Turbo axle is found in some turbo and V6 models, and is a little beefier. It is a 4-pinion design, whereas the regular 8" is a 2-pinion design. Many V6's had 2-pinion cases too.

There are two different length's of axle housings which are 55" and the 58". The `85 front axle has the most gussets and is the strongest. I have the `85 in the front and a `91 in the rear. Mine came with 3/4" spacers on the front axle to make up the difference in the length of the rear axle. I haven't found any numbers on my housings and I guess that Toyota doesn't mark them. You would have to turn the axle shaft and watch the pinion flange to get the gear ratio.

The 22re (fuel injected) is a 2.4L and any G or W series transmission will work.

The Fox AirShox are just nitrogen gas shocks. There are a number of manufacturers over here and I am sure that someone makes them in OZ. They are fully rebuildable and are rated at 1000lbs per corner. They are fully adjustable for spring rate, ride height and spring curve. These and the three link made a very simple front suspension. I have driven it now daily for a couple of months and I do truely love it. Very soft ride.

Single and dual stage coilovers are much more expensive. Coils and shocks are much more fabrication.

I don't know of any write up for doing axle swaps on a Feroza.

I'll see if I can find you some more information

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... index.html

4cyl and 6cyl thirds

exterior identification

another

Thats heaps of help. Thanks for that mate. Fingers crossed I can get some funds, its gonna take a while but if its a job worth doing, then its a job worth doing properly!

I noticed in your extreme mods thread that you still have leaf spring rear. Are you goin to change that to a similar set up as the front? Is that still a modified standard Feroza (Rocky) rear end? Finally, How did you go setting up your fox shocks with the HP Nitrogen. I take it the guys in the shop did that, cause it looks like there is a fair bit of equipment needed to do the job correctly.

Thanks again.

are you planning on engineering this?

are airshocks road legal?

why not a suzuki front axle or something in the front to match widths with the rear?

i don't know how a ferrozza frame compares with a bundera or 80 series (width wise) but i'd assume that the coil brackets would have to be moved anyway, so might be better to start with cheaper (i.e. hilux) axles.

and don't call it too weak, i did my toyota front cv and my freewheeling hub on the same part of the track.

wasn't our day hey?

oh and if you need someone to fetch the beer, or pass tools, give us a yell, i love seeing this sort of thing come together.

i got a drum brake (not too hard to convert to disks) front axle off a 40 series sitting in melbourne if that'd do

I'm not sure but I think that the suzuki front diffs are a fair bit too narrow. Do Vitara's have solid front ends? They are more or less the same width. Might go post something in the suzuki section!

vitara's are IFS sorry dude...

ummm sierra diffs with wheel spacers

what's the measurement of the rear diff, i'll hunt around a few places

If your swapping axles and planning a solid axle swap for the front, just stick to Toyota Hilux axles, they are plentiful with plenty of available diff ratios and have about a 30mm narrower track then that of a widetrack Feroza (which you have???) about as close as your going to get.

If your serious on coils or whatever, it won't matter what diffs you got, you would have to cut the mounts off and fit new ones to fit anyway.

i havnt got around to putting in the 2nd hand front diff section i bought yet. new seals should be in on monday, so i will probably put it all back in next w/end. i am hanging to go out 4wding again, a 2wd feroza sux.
hopefully it'll last longer than yours did though Dangerous Dave....

Hi guys,
Was the damage done down at sheidow on sat?
I wanted to go but still hadnt put the replacement springs in.
Put them in today though.
were there a few others out wheeln?

Chop

the damage was at sheidow, the only other guys we saw out there were the two guys in a zook on 33 muddies.


but our crew was dave, me in my 40, jeff in his 60 series, and that guy in the bundera that always forgets my name, and i forget his...
same spot claimed my 40's cv, but i was driving back down it at the time

how about a rocky front diff?

only thing with going to lux axles is that you'll lose alot of clearance under the pumpkin...

Adam, the track measurement for front and rear are both 1480mm according to the specs I can find on the internet however I have not actually measured this on my car.

Rock Monkey - I really don't mind welding new mounts etc on to the diff housing. I have a Mig welder and I'm not to bad at it. I'm not looking for a strait sub in however I don't want be shortening housings or driveshafts etc.

Chops - It happened yesterday (saturday). Mike (red bundeera), Adam (40 with Baja Claws), Jeff (biege 60 series) and myself went down there for a quick outing. I'd just fixed radiator hoses and alternator and now I have something new to fix. Yay.

Dangerous Dave wrote:I noticed in your extreme mods thread that you still have leaf spring rear. Are you goin to change that to a similar set up as the front? Is that still a modified standard Feroza (Rocky) rear end? Finally, How did you go setting up your fox shocks with the HP Nitrogen. I take it the guys in the shop did that, cause it looks like there is a fair bit of equipment needed to do the job correctly.

Thanks again.

You're welcome Dave! I still have the original Daihatsu leafs in the rear. They were flat as a spring under and are flat as a spring over. They go negative arch real well and I still haven't bent or broke one. All I did was to change to a less accute angle of the shocks. Seems to work pretty good and I don't plan on changing that. The rear used to out-articulate the front and now they are pretty even as far as the work of flexing.

Yep, the shop filled the front shocks. I already had the shock hoops installed so they just had to make some lower brackets. The only things needed to fill them are some oil and nitrogen. They have a little 5lb nitrogen bottle and regulator. If you can't find anyone with a nitrogen bottle you could probably rent one from a welding supply store. We can do that over here. I don't know how many cc's of oil are in mine but the pressure is set at only 100 or 125psi. I have heard that as the oil absorbs the nitrogen you need to get another shot of nitrogen to maintain the spring factors. I haven't done that. I think that the Feroza is so light that I didn't have to. I have the Warn 9000 and a lot of weight from the 3/16" steel bumper up front also.

I'm not trying to sell you on something. I was working on my truck for nine months for a couple of hours every night after work. I saw a LOT of different suspensions in that time. This was the simplest, cheapest most bang for the buck.

I looked at Dana 44's front and rear as there are a lot of them over here. I found that the Toy 8" is just as strong if not stronger. They have better clearance and just as many gearing/ locker options as the 44. The axle shafts themselves are 1/16" of an inch smaller than Dana 60 axles. The only downside is the Birfield joint. You may find a lot of info about hating the birf and breaking them. I do have a set of ringed Longfields that I found at a salvage yard but they are not in yet. I have heard of people running 38" tyres and stock birfs. They haven't broke a birf. With stock birfs and 35's you shouldn't break anything. If you need it Poly Performance has 300M inner axles and the new gen. Longfields make a Toy axle as strong as a stock Dana 60 (one ton running gear)...see chart. The Toyota axle is cheap, simple, has a removable third member and is pretty strong.

I ran the Feroza engine, transmission and transfer case to the Toyota axles for four or five years. The Daihatsu drive shaft flanges will bolt up to Toyota axles.

I would gather all the info I could in a folder and make your decisions from that and talking to other people. It's a big decision and project. Let me know if I can help some more.

PS:

I did use the Daihatsu driveshafts but I had some stainless steel spacers made to run the Toyota axles. If you decide to go that route of running your Feroza engine, tranny and transfer case to the Toyota axles, I still have the spacers and would send them to you if you want.

Also attached a drawing I did of a scan out of the service manual. The measurements aren't there though. Thought that you could print some out and mock up some ideas.

Also, Also attached a pic of the Hilux/ Surf frame with measurements.

a 40 series axle is close that with the hub spacer you'd be right i recon... bit big round the pumpkin though... free housing and center... but getting it close to dihatsu gearing would be a pain

but hilux hmm almost, plus nice and strong, relatively light, and cheap, you can get close to factory gearing... damn i was hoping lux stuff didn't make sense

, or ford 9 inch off a bronco.... pricy, but probably strong

umm how bout some mog portals

PV thats great news that the Daihatsu Drive shafts will bolt on to the Toyota Diffs. I think what I'll try and do is the following. Give me ya thoughts.

First - Find a lux diff with the same ratio's as the Feroza Rear. Get it in the car with leaf spring suspension. To get it back on the road sometime soon. If I can't find a similar ratio, I'll buy a set of Lux diffs and stick one in the rear as well. At least then I'll be able to run lockers in front and rear! I'd still use the original motor, gearbox etc.


Second - Save some cash to get those nice fox shocks, and a motor like whats in the Bundeera's 2.4 TD. One the motors been bought I'll get rid of the leaf spring front and mod it all then. Hopefull I'll win the Lottery between now and then!


You've all been a great help. PV do you have spacers for front and rear diffs or just the front. If you've got them for both I'll PM you when I'm gonna need them, we'll work out how much you want for them and shipping etc, etc.


Thanks again and let the search begin.

Adam there will be a need for much spanner and beer passing so I'll hold you to that offer. I won't be drinkin while I work though. I do want by car to last a little longer than a day!

PV - I noticed that in your Mod thread you origionally ran a leaf spring front. Would you be able to either post or e-mail me any information you have on that. Especially leaf spring mounting points, fabrication of the front mount points as the feroza chassis tapers inwards on the front etc. Shocker mount points, could you still use the same power steering by modifing it stightly?


Sorry bout all the questions but I don't want to jump into this blind folded and head first!


My e-mail is: naeanddave@optusnet.com.au

Thanks again

Dangerous Dave wrote:First - Find a lux diff with the same ratio's as the Feroza Rear.

The diff centre you're after would be a 5.29:1 that is found in Hiace Vans. They are weaker then a normal Hilux diff, and also harder to find. Lowest a Hilux has is 4.88:1

Dave, Dave,Dave,

I'm not PV but simply toyhatsu

Dangerous Dave wrote:First - Find a lux diff with the same ratio's as the Feroza Rear..

As r0ck_m0nkey stated you will need 5.29:1's or more exactly 5.285:1 You will need an install kit for each R&P...Try to get a solid sleeve although some people swear by crush sleeves. When I had the Feroza engine and Toy axles I went to 5.71:1 with 33" tyres and a Detroit Trutrac in the rear. I used the stock Feroza steering box and pitman arm.

This might sound a little disappointing but I would replace the seals, wheel bearings, maybe the trunion bearings, wipers, felts, gaskets etc. If you get an `85 axle it will probably need some rebuilding.

Dangerous Dave wrote:You've all been a great help. PV do you have spacers for front and rear diffs or just the front. If you've got them for both I'll PM you when I'm gonna need them, we'll work out how much you want for them and shipping etc, etc.

I needed the drive shaft spacers as I went spring over in the rear and due to the lift I needed one on the front also. If you are going to keep the spring under in the rear and the front to suit you probably won't need them.

I'll see if I still have the scans of the frame top and sides with the measurments and get them to you. I think that you are going to want to make some scale drawings and see how this stuff is going to fit.

I used some Jeep springs Wrangler in the front as a spring under.

more piccies

You can call me toyhatsu, or Kent, or Hey Butthead etc. but not PV

No offense intended PV

It did OK with the spring under but not nearly as good as it is now.