Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Thought this may be a relevant issue - with all the topics on how to weld a diff and whether or not to weld it, might be good to have a topic for newbs like me who just had it done and want advice on how to adjust driving style.

obviously the first point is going to be TAKE IT EASY. but lets get more into characteristics of locked rears and locked fronts. (welded or otherwise).

on road a welded rear isnt all that bad it is predictiable

just have to be careful in the wet if you get to keen on the noise while cornering it tends to drift

i have run the welded rear for about 4 mounths the thing that annoys me abou tit is in car parks it tends to hold torque and doesnt sit level

but thats no big issue

welded front its not to bad off road just have to unlock a hub or 2 here and there, if i had pwr stere it wouldnt worry me the slightest

The new Zook has a Lock-Rite in the back, so this is for the auto-lockers. First impression was that its ... clunk clunk clunk... going around corners if you back off in the corner and coast about. Clunking is accompanied by some mild lurching that pushes you towards the outside of the round-about... nothing severe though. My only change in driving style is to ensure there's a little throttle when going around a tight corner . Wet and dry, at this point (day 3!) it seems pretty well mannered.
Cheers...
Con

CptnBarney wrote:The new Zook has a Lock-Rite in the back, so this is for the auto-lockers. First impression was that its ... clunk clunk clunk... going around corners if you back off in the corner and coast about. Clunking is accompanied by some mild lurching that pushes you towards the outside of the round-about... nothing severe though. My only change in driving style is to ensure there's a little throttle when going around a tight corner . Wet and dry, at this point (day 3!) it seems pretty well mannered.
Cheers...
Con

put the foot into it and it will go around better....

mud4b is right - i found more throttle on the corner seems to drive it around better rather than it jolting all over the show... althought bit weary of giving it too much and going ricer on the corners =)

something to note with these is my turning circle offroad has increased MASSIVELY! i can donut on the spot now without any effort (the front diff is centre of rotation). i can see this being handy in some situations! (although scary in others)

Has your turning circle actually increased or do you now experience understeer ??

i have a vitara with a rear lock right, off road, and i dont notice its there, and the turning circle hasnt been noticably different. (unless on high traction surface, eg: rock)

on road, it does become noticable in some situations. sometimes in the wet. turning circle is increased a bit, but i'm not worried.

the only time there is a big understeer effect, is when i do a u turn and turn onto the dirt shoulder of the road, where the front tyres are turning, and go on to the dirt first with the rear tyres still on the bitumen, then the locker pushes forward.

but most of the time, is the over steer effect. mostly off road, but on some occasions, on road too.

In my opinion, a fully locked, or welded rear is better in terms of control, and predictability. you are able to drive as normal, or close to normal, with only minimal changes to driving habits, esp in the wet.

as with a lock right, may take some time to get used to. i dont mind it at all, but my mates, who once upon a time used to ask to drive my car all the time, will now decline my offer to let them drive. all beacause of the lockright.

tips? for the lock right, SMOOTH is the word. its either give it curry, and boot it everywhere, and you wont notice it, or if your a bit more reserved, then take it all smooth, smooth clutch in and out, as there will be slack in the diff. and coast everywhere.

no no theres certainly understeer feeling on road, feels very much like it just wants to go straight - so often once im around the corner its still pushing me back the way i came from for a metre or so...

offroad with less traction, i can spin up both rears and do a donut kind of action to turn on the spot - very effective! although dangerous if unintentional.

i think that hardest part to get used to with a welded rear is the "stuttering" on corners - from the outside must look like im stalling it.

alien wrote: i think that hardest part to get used to with a welded rear is the "stuttering" on corners - from the outside must look like im stalling it.

The "stuttering" is far less noticable with more aggressive off road tread, also same with bigger tyres.
IE less grip on road = less squeal and/or stutter

christover

a mate of mine has a shorty 40 with welded rear and his tyres screeched heaps worse with highway terrain but hardly noticed it with muddies on.definaitley better with aggresive tyres

mud4b,
Took your advice and kicked her in the guts coming into a corner off the bitumen and into the dirt... jeez that was fun! Think I'll just go back to nice and sedate with steady throttle round the twisty bits.
Cheers...
Con

got to test the zuk out in the wet tonight... you guys were right - VERY predictable... in fact i actually find it harder to make a wheel spin now than i used to which is excellent.

when the rear does go out it doesnt "whip" as much as it used to - steering when sideways is a very casual affair so long as you keep on the pedal, and it never seems to oversteer out of a drift.

im certainly liking the way it handles. on dirt/grass its VERY fun to do donuts aswell - once again very predictable and super easy to control.

While we're on this topic, I welded up a spare front diff center a few weeks back, and am waiting for holidays to put it in, however, a few people have told me not to bother as I'll regret it, I've been warned that i won't be able to steer it properly, and will have next to no turning circle.

Now I know from the way those of you that have welded front diffs talk that this is crap, but how much exactly does it affect driving, for example, can you still easily steer or change directions in mud or when doing hill climbs stuff like that, or will it just push ahead in a straight line?? Also, I do a fair bit of sand driving at Rainbow and Fraser, I'm assuming that a welded front diff would be an advantage on sand as you'd have two constant driving wheels pulling, instead of just one maybe digging in... yes/no??

On sand you will notice it pushing. as both wheels are turning at same rate when turing as apposed to a locker.

cheers

from what ive noticed with the rear locker, when the wheels spin, if you come off the accelerator without clutching it takes off in the direction its pointing... doing this offroad may overcome any steering issues - buts still very scary!!!

alien wrote:from what ive noticed with the rear locker, when the wheels spin, if you come off the accelerator without clutching it takes off in the direction its pointing... doing this offroad may overcome any steering issues - buts still very scary!!!

Yeah, I've noticed this when I have my air locker engaged, but I'm mainly concerned if I put the welded front in, and am attempting to drive some of the bypasses/inland tracks on Fraser that its going to be a mongrel to steer it through the dry sand.

I realise that very few of those tracks are difficult 4wdrive terrain, and hardly require a locked rear and front, but I'd prefer to be able to relie on 4wd rather then just locked rears for on sand trips just incase I need it. I also use my zook for hillclimb/mud comps and don't want to have to pull diff centers every time I go from hills to sand.

Or perhaps I'm just being a pussy, should stop asking questions, put in the welded front, drive it like a demon, and if I can't steer it, I'll just make my own tracks!!! Only one way to truely find out I guess.

Whitey wrote:

alien wrote:from what ive noticed with the rear locker, when the wheels spin, if you come off the accelerator without clutching it takes off in the direction its pointing... doing this offroad may overcome any steering issues - buts still very scary!!!

Yeah, I've noticed this when I have my air locker engaged, but I'm mainly concerned if I put the welded front in, and am attempting to drive some of the bypasses/inland tracks on Fraser that its going to be a mongrel to steer it through the dry sand.

I realise that very few of those tracks are difficult 4wdrive terrain, and hardly require a locked rear and front, but I'd prefer to be able to relie on 4wd rather then just locked rears for on sand trips just incase I need it. I also use my zook for hillclimb/mud comps and don't want to have to pull diff centers every time I go from hills to sand.

Or perhaps I'm just being a pussy, should stop asking questions, put in the welded front, drive it like a demon, and if I can't steer it, I'll just make my own tracks!!! Only one way to truely find out I guess.

Just do it

well it seems like only a week after having it welded the diff is now unlocked?! it started clunking on turns either left or right, and now it just drives normally - although drivers side still seems to clunk now and then on a right hand turn.

Im thinking the weld has gone kaput on me?

it now feels very weird to have an open diff! and it aint even been a week!!!

Whitey wrote:

alien wrote:from what ive noticed with the rear locker, when the wheels spin, if you come off the accelerator without clutching it takes off in the direction its pointing... doing this offroad may overcome any steering issues - buts still very scary!!!

Yeah, I've noticed this when I have my air locker engaged, but I'm mainly concerned if I put the welded front in, and am attempting to drive some of the bypasses/inland tracks on Fraser that its going to be a mongrel to steer it through the dry sand.

I realise that very few of those tracks are difficult 4wdrive terrain, and hardly require a locked rear and front, but I'd prefer to be able to relie on 4wd rather then just locked rears for on sand trips just incase I need it. I also use my zook for hillclimb/mud comps and don't want to have to pull diff centers every time I go from hills to sand.

Or perhaps I'm just being a pussy, should stop asking questions, put in the welded front, drive it like a demon, and if I can't steer it, I'll just make my own tracks!!! Only one way to truely find out I guess.

Do it, and try it on the tracks, if it dont wanna steer just unlock one hub, so you will have 3 wheel drive still (if rear locker is on) and will still be able to steer fine. Then if you get bogger or anything just jump out, lock that hub and have a go. Though i dont think that you should have to much trouble in 3 wheel drive anyway.
Layto....

if u have busted the welds ur goin to have a bit of a mess in there as this will go thru ur bearings and f**k them up big time, if ur lucky u might have busted an axle.

jacked it up today and had a play... its a totally open diff, both wheels are receiving power, stop one the other goes etc.. but on stopping one theres a hell of a lot of clunking happening at the wheel end of the diff, almost a ratchet feel.

on turning the engine off while jacked up it also goes "ka-chunk!" in the diff centre...

gotta be stuffed welds.

ill take it back to the guys who did it and make em fix it =)

i dont own zuk but have a welded rear in my hilux and recently out at ormeau i broke jsut one weld out of the 12 welds in there and a piece of weld fell out of the centre and got caught between the crownwheel and housing and punched a hole in it. Was easy to fix but ruigned a days 4wdin so just watch out for that.

all fixed... weld wasnt done right... so the whole weld broke off the hemisphere... its now absolutely totally FULL of weld (15 mins of non stop welding). No damage internally - was a clean break.