Outer Limits 4x4 Board

my 83 rr runs a 6.5 chev diesel/t700 combo with an rt95 t/c. my worry is that the driveline won't handle the motor, it only puts out 120kw/400Nm which isn't really a lot of power. should i give maxi drives a go or go nissan, i could go 9inch but that looks like to much hassle. its not a comp rig its just my toy.
any ideas would be great.
its all a bit confusing

tyre size is what will dictate snaps.

First: axles and diffs. rear

fit lockers then front cvs.

to fix fit either maxi drive or jacmac lockers and axles.

cvs either Haultech moded rover jobs or swap to toys.

go all out and fit toy diff centres to rover housings and get 30 spline axles or fit nissan diffs complete.

Michael;.

at the moment it runs 265/75/16 muddies on 16*7 widened rr rims, wanna go bigger but but not sure as to what i can fit on these rims that aren't to extreme (gotta drive the thing on the road), might have to change the rims.

35 s you know you want to.



Michael.

6.5 rangie wrote:my 83 rr runs a 6.5 chev diesel/t700 combo with an rt95 t/c. my worry is that the driveline won't handle the motor, it only puts out 120kw/400Nm which isn't really a lot of power. should i give maxi drives a go or go nissan, i could go 9inch but that looks like to much hassle. its not a comp rig its just my toy.
any ideas would be great.
its all a bit confusing

Your Rangie has (or should have) the earlier model course spline axles which are barely up to the job with the standard 3.5. The HP isn't the only deciding factor here as the torque and resistance to that torque is far more important. Eg the 6.5 Chev will produce heaps of grunt and combined with the increased traction offered by your larger tyres will create significant strain on the driveline although the auto will probably take the "edges" off that strain by smoothing out the power delivery a little.

Of course, if you drive it carefully, then you may get away with standard axles etc for many years to come however if you like to give it a boot full then you can expect broken rear axles at the very least.

If you upgrade the axles, then the next weak link is the diff centre itself and the small sun gears and pinion which will break without too much effort. Maxidrive diffs are an excellent option as they provide a stronger hemishere and axles however I have also seen competition vehicles fitted with maxidrives then smash the crown wheel and pinion under extreme stress (eg full throttle, 35's centipedes tyres, up a nasty hill etc) ... I guess they are the next weak link in the chain.

The front CV's are probably stronger thanmost of the Nissan and Toyota stuff although they generally have stronger diffs so maybe the CV's are just their weakest link versus the diff centres and axles in Rangies.

If you intend to do serious work with your vehicle then you might look at putting GQ/GU Nissan diffs under it (as DAS here has already done) or going to the toyota centres as HSV Rangie suggested (as there are heaps of ratios on offer with the toyos) however if you're not that serious then for simplicity, I would suggest either Maxidrives front and rear or fine spline ARB Airlockers with maxidrive axles. Your early Rangie CV's are strong enough for most applications with these setups.

It was probably a typo but just in case it wasn't, your transfer is an LT95 not RT 95.

Cheers
Simo

yeah it was a typo, would the gq/gu be worth doin (strength and cost wise) over the maxi gear. are gq and gu the same width or are the gu wider. and would i be better off using the nissan trans case aswell. i've spoken to rangie automotive and he said he is having trouble with the wheels offsets. if gq are narrower i would go for them. what about brakes, rangie master cylinder ok or nissan, nissan brakes or rangie.

I know someone with a similar model rangie with a 6.2L chev diesel and an LT95 box/tcase. He has a stock drivetrain and stock size tyres, but he takes it offroad a fair bit and also does a reasonable amount of touring. So far AFAIK he hasn't broken anything - but he is very easy on the right pedal offroad.

i just don't like fixing stuff, so i don't wan't something thats gonna break all the time. i can get gu diffs thats all, but gee they look wide. how does the nissan gear all line up, i think i need to see it done for my own eyes to judge it. would my trans case handle it or go the nissan again

GURU on here did a GQ conversion to his rangie. If you search you will find a write-up.

Kermit from Rangy Automotive in Lilydale has done this conversion on his race ute. You may be able to discuss with him and see it completed. He drove it really hard at the Ateco and didn't break any of the normal bits.

You can even see the vid

http://timbot.org/photos/4x4-Ateco-2005 ... _creek.avi

Tim

been doin some reading and think i'll go the nissan way, might even do the trans case aswell, i'll just have to check it out first, visit rangie automotive oneday soon.

Just leave the TC, Its strong as.

No other benefit to changien to Nissans other than to say you spent heaps of $$$ and have the oppertuninty to fit Lower Ratio Aftermarket TC gears.

Shaft will be able to handle the offset rear diff no probs.

Dave.

so you reckon the trans case will be able to handle it no worries, just do the diff conversion? no one has replied to me yet about the width difference between gq and gu diffs, are they the same?

WMS

Rover - 1556mm
GQ - 1588

32mm difference.
GU front is abour 30 - 40mm wider than GQ, not sure about GU rear width.

TC will be fine, otherwise put in the taper roller bearing kit and one piece cross shaft - but i have no experience with these mods, only what I've read ect....

Dave.

trans case already done, just wanted to know about the difference in the two diffs so i can keep an eye out for the right ones. plus i have two get this re-enginered some time in the future. nissan or rr driveshafts or a combo? what about brakes?

RR dribe shafts. Just redrill to suit Nissan Pinion.

Brackets? Search and read either Maggot4x4 or GURU's threads.

Dave.

I run a GMC 6.5 tdi V8 running about 12 psi boost and am about to fit a huge intercooler.

I run MD diff locks and HD axle shafts, county CVs.

I regularly give it full throttle and never had any driveline failures.

By the way, with my old 3.9 petrol motor I used to break front axle drive shafts regularly.

Don't forget that there is a disadvantage with Nissan diff axle housings - lower clearance and of course you then have basic agricultural grade components as well - no way!

Go with the maxi drive axels and lockers. Use the haultech CVs.

You have a Rangie, dude. If you want a nissan then go get a nissan.

How many comp trucks do you see break the maxi stuff? How many times has Sam broken his stuff? And I would think that their trucks are pumping out more HP than yours will and they are driving harder terrain than the average trip would cover.

I am running 37" Creepies with standard running gear with an upgraded ECU. I have babied it for a few trips and then last two trips I have booted it because I have the maxi drive components coming in a few weeks. No breakages...no worries.

It all comes down to how you drive them.

Micka

deRanged Rover wrote:I run a GMC 6.5 tdi V8...

Sorry about going off topic. The 6.5 v8 diesel is indirect injection. They are not tdi.

micka is right, no toy or nissan axles are going to be as strong as maxi, so theres no point in justifying ''upgrades to nissan diffs'' when they are still factory axles that break when locked n turning 35''. my old man had a 6.2 in his 83 rangie and never missed a beat, the cars gone all over the simpson dessert n red country and towed a 100 series with a collapsed IFS back. As long as everything is tight shilberight.

Micka wrote:Go with the maxi drive axels and lockers. Use the haultech CVs.

You have a Rangie, dude. If you want a nissan then go get a nissan.

How many comp trucks do you see break the maxi stuff? How many times has Sam broken his stuff? And I would think that their trucks are pumping out more HP than yours will and they are driving harder terrain than the average trip would cover.

I am running 37" Creepies with standard running gear with an upgraded ECU. I have babied it for a few trips and then last two trips I have booted it because I have the maxi drive components coming in a few weeks. No breakages...no worries.

It all comes down to how you drive them.

Micka

Sam(If you are talking Sam Overton from Haultech) doesnt run Maxi drive Axles. We use toyota Centers with JacMac axles and our own CVs(Haultech).

maxis are strong, but the rover CW&Ps will never be ableto take as much as a nissan replacement.

The prob with GQs is the cvs are IMHO weak as piss, and semi floating rear.

GUs IMHO would be orsum but diff clearance will become your next drama, all the strength in the world is great but wont matter, or get you far if your hung up on both diffs.

The toy route is another option and the only benefit is full floating and better CVs (IMHO although the GU Cvs are prob equivalent).
Prob with the toy route is the axles are not super strong (nissan GQ are not bullet proof either) and the front CW&P (if hipinion) suffer sever strength loss in reverse.

Either way you go when changin the diffs the first thing to get corrected is CVs, followed by the axles then the toyota front centre.
The nissan centres are almost bullet proof and I cant see them breakin often (unlike the toy gear) but as i mentioned diff clearance will be a prob. But if your running 38" tyres i guess you should have plenty (sumtimes its never enough).

There are plenty of upgrades for the toyota gear just as there are heaps of upgradse for the rover gear, but the rover CW&P will always be the weak spot on larger tyres and upgraded diffs.

I think each option has its Pros n Cons.

Anthony how many Axles have you seen break in a Rover after converting to Toy centres?

I have never seen this happen and can guarentee they are a lot stronger than GQ or GU Axles.

RUFF wrote:Anthony how many Axles have you seen break in a Rover after converting to Toy centres?

I have never seen this happen and can guarentee they are a lot stronger than GQ or GU Axles.

Sorry i should have worded that differently.
I ment swapping complete Toy diffs and Complete GU/GQ diffs.

The toy centre with the custom Jacmac axles and your cvs is pretty much a well sorted combo, only the the toy centres become the weak link.
Specially the rear 8" hilux (as you know breaks often in your case).

IMHO its still the best route (the toy centre conversion) if your not looking to gain extra stance under a full bodied rig. The only downfall to it was spares and availability as well as the customer service when it comes to the axles but then again the toy centres are easy to come by, and jac mac does seem to have the axles sorted.

So which cvs are the best to run in this situation. I have the toy centres, but when ordering the front axles does it matter which cvs you run, toy or rangie. (i have spare stock rangie thats all).

RUFF wrote:

Micka wrote:Go with the maxi drive axels and lockers. Use the haultech CVs.

You have a Rangie, dude. If you want a nissan then go get a nissan.

How many comp trucks do you see break the maxi stuff? How many times has Sam broken his stuff? And I would think that their trucks are pumping out more HP than yours will and they are driving harder terrain than the average trip would cover.

I am running 37" Creepies with standard running gear with an upgraded ECU. I have babied it for a few trips and then last two trips I have booted it because I have the maxi drive components coming in a few weeks. No breakages...no worries.

It all comes down to how you drive them.

Micka

Sam(If you are talking Sam Overton from Haultech) doesnt run Maxi drive Axles. We use toyota Centers with JacMac axles and our own CVs(Haultech).

That's what I said...but I guess it wasn't clear. I was referring to the haultech CVs when I said 'Sam'. Not to maxi axels.

Micka

6.5 rangie wrote:So which cvs are the best to run in this situation. I have the toy centres, but when ordering the front axles does it matter which cvs you run, toy or rangie. (i have spare stock rangie thats all).

The majority of replies are suggesting that you look at CVs from Haultech. The maxi-drive CVs are obscenely expensive. Standard older 110 CVs would probably do the job, but I guess it all depends on the driving that you want to do.

Nothing is unbreakable.

Micka

AFAIK Haultech cv's are heat treated to increase the fracture strength at the expense of wear life. This is a good solution for a lot of us, who only do short trips on a weekend.

I dont think the wear life has been established yet, because that is not what they were intended for. I would be hesitant to use them on an extended outback trip, because of that. If you have trouble breaking cv's on outback trips, then you should be looking at either Longfield 4340/300M cv's (still not proven for long wear life) or 80 series/GU cv's.