Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok the question have done a search and have pulled up bugger all info as to which one is better... so come on all you ricers

I would think that there would not be anought room to run a water to air unit in a 4x4.

basicly and i mean BASICLY, water to air won't get the intake air colder than air to air at speed but is better when you don't have air moving through the intercooler. ie low range and stop starting etc. plenty of room in 4x4's just have to mount the rad and fan somewhere etc just nut it out. like anythhing a good idea can be exicuted like crap
serg

kempster1 wrote:I would think that there would not be anought room to run a water to air unit in a 4x4.

check out www.dencodiesel.com they have purpose made intercoolers for 4x4 and lite trucks

http://www.are.com.au/Inter/air_to_water.htm hmmm interesting read but not the unit i was thinking

kempster1 wrote:I would think that there would not be anought room to run a water to air unit in a 4x4.

Here's my water/air intercooler fits quite well and doesn't take up as much room as an air/air that flows the same. It now has it's own radiator mounted on the tray. I'm thinking of running my aircon through it instead of water

Have a Denco unit on mine, built a custom radiator for it as i thought the unit supplied with the kit was a touch small. Work, you bet it works can sit at full load at 18psi boost and not have to worry about the pyro hitting 600C plus, it now sits at 450C (this was run on a dyno with no air flow over the radiator). Good news is more boost more power!!!!!

By the way it dropped the inlet temp by around 80C.

The little water to air coolers off WRSs are a nice size, mate of mine has one on his rangie works really well and there would be a fair few secondhand as they would get upgraded all the time

Tom

Go water to air...properly set up these are so much better than air to air.

Think about this: get 2 red hot pieces of steel. Take one of them and wave it around in the air for a while. Take the other one and dunk it in a bucket of water. Which one is coolest afterwards? There's your answer....by a long way.

A Subaru Legacy water to air intercooler is a very good intercooler and cheap to source and install.

Here's a mock up pic of the intercooler in my engine bay. Very tight fit but would work very well. I have a 3 litre Surf.

[img]http://www.usq.edu.au\users\blackbuc\Intercooler\int1.jpg[/img]


[img]http://www.usq.edu.au\users\blackbuc\Intercooler\intercooler1.jpg[/img]

Toyota also have a water to air intercooler on one of their inports, twin turbo though so you need to adapt one turbo pipe to 2 intake pipes in the intercooler. Its alot more compact (flatter ) than the sube one so it can mount easier in the bay if room is important. SSS imports in sydney sell the complete kit with pump, intercooler (sube or toy) and radiator for $250. cant go wrong i think.

Andrew.

Andrew,
The Toyota cooler you are talking about is from a 1GGTE twin turbo 2litre, 6 cylinder, the Gen 1 version. There are also water to air units available from ST185/205 GT4 celica's.

toughnut wrote:

kempster1 wrote:I would think that there would not be anought room to run a water to air unit in a 4x4.

Here's my water/air intercooler fits quite well and doesn't take up as much room as an air/air that flows the same. It now has it's own radiator mounted on the tray. I'm thinking of running my aircon through it instead of water

Interesting unit, what is the temperature drop over the unit?

kempster1 wrote:

toughnut wrote:

kempster1 wrote:I would think that there would not be anought room to run a water to air unit in a 4x4.

Here's my water/air intercooler fits quite well and doesn't take up as much room as an air/air that flows the same. It now has it's own radiator mounted on the tray. I'm thinking of running my aircon through it instead of water

Interesting unit, what is the temperature drop over the unit?

Would be interesting to use it as the thermal dump for an LPG setup. Davies-Craig inline radiator pump from your convertor to the intercooler.

wannaberacer wrote:Go water to air...properly set up these are so much better than air to air.

Think about this: get 2 red hot pieces of steel. Take one of them and wave it around in the air for a while. Take the other one and dunk it in a bucket of water. Which one is coolest afterwards? There's your answer....by a long way.

A Subaru Legacy water to air intercooler is a very good intercooler and cheap to source and install.

Here's a mock up pic of the intercooler in my engine bay. Very tight fit but would work very well. I have a 3 litre Surf.

That is a one off instance & not a very valid scenario. Imagine that piece of steel is contantly hot & you kept it in the bucket. The water will soon be the same temp as the steel less the heat that is radiated from the bucket. This is the problem with Water/Air intercoolers...You still need air to cool the water eventually.

However water has a lower level of heat transfer. IE it accepts heat at a slower rate than air, so to cool the same volume of charge air, you will need more water.

Plus you have the drama's of reliablity. There is nothing to go wrong with an air-air except for a hole.

With a water-air, to have a pump, electrics, extra hosing, & the risk of water entering your engine. No thanks with a diesel.

Mytqik wrote:

wannaberacer wrote:Go water to air...properly set up these are so much better than air to air.

Think about this: get 2 red hot pieces of steel. Take one of them and wave it around in the air for a while. Take the other one and dunk it in a bucket of water. Which one is coolest afterwards? There's your answer....by a long way.

A Subaru Legacy water to air intercooler is a very good intercooler and cheap to source and install.

Here's a mock up pic of the intercooler in my engine bay. Very tight fit but would work very well. I have a 3 litre Surf.

That is a one off instance & not a very valid scenario. Imagine that piece of steel is contantly hot & you kept it in the bucket. The water will soon be the same temp as the steel less the heat that is radiated from the bucket. This is the problem with Water/Air intercoolers...You still need air to cool the water eventually.

However water has a lower level of heat transfer. IE it accepts heat at a slower rate than air, so to cool the same volume of charge air, you will need more water.

Plus you have the drama's of reliablity. There is nothing to go wrong with an air-air except for a hole.

With a water-air, to have a pump, electrics, extra hosing, & the risk of water entering your engine. No thanks with a diesel.

Heard of a story that a water to air intercooler got a hole in it and dribbled down into the engine while the car wasn't used for a couple of weeks caused all sorts of problems with corrosion inside the engine.

i have air to air on mine....... and to overcome low range, or traffic, or long hills i put a 9" fan onto the intercooler and i can turn it on from the car....it works a treat!! on long climbs the fan takes a good 20 degrees off the temperature of the air after the intercooler.

A water to air intercooler is a much better in alot of aspects and alot of high power diesel run water to air intercoolers.

does anybody know what kind of temps water/air intercoolers are getting? after sustained driving. on boost (not full boost, about 8/10 psi) after a little while mine gets up to about 45 degrees.... which is a lot cooler than whats coming out of the turbo

GQ4.8coilcab wrote:A water to air intercooler is a much better in alot of aspects and alot of high power diesel run water to air intercoolers.

That maybe OK for a sunday special, but for a diesel 4x4 that is travelling in remote areas, I prefer the KISS approach, even if it means I miss out on a few extra ponnies.

Running a high powered petrol 4x4 go water/air all the way. If running diesel just use air/air as it is more simple. The revs and amount of boost you will run on a diesel are not great enough to justify the water/air you just won't see the difference. I looked at a turbo for my lux and rang everybody there is to ring including emailing overseas (i go overboard on my research) and that is the response from 99% of companies. Maybe on a big towing diesel it would be practical as you put more strain on the vehicle.

Perhaps you should let us know what type of vehicle it is for? and we can more appropriately point you in the right direction.

GaryInOz wrote:

kempster1 wrote:

toughnut wrote:

kempster1 wrote:I would think that there would not be anought room to run a water to air unit in a 4x4.

Here's my water/air intercooler fits quite well and doesn't take up as much room as an air/air that flows the same. It now has it's own radiator mounted on the tray. I'm thinking of running my aircon through it instead of water

Interesting unit, what is the temperature drop over the unit?

Would be interesting to use it as the thermal dump for an LPG setup. Davies-Craig inline radiator pump from your convertor to the intercooler.

I haven't checked the temp drop but when you give it a few revs and the turbo side of the intake is too hot too touch the inlet side is still just warm. As I said though I have plans for the Xmas break to run the aircon through it. Should get some good results then

I have a top mount air 2 air it great on the hiway but as soon as u r in the bush in 1st and 2nd gear they r hopeless thats why i have put a 12inch thermo over my intercooler and i can switch it on and off when eva i please. I made good power with little boost so i am happy now

toughnut wrote:

kempster1 wrote:I would think that there would not be anought room to run a water to air unit in a 4x4.

Here's my water/air intercooler fits quite well and doesn't take up as much room as an air/air that flows the same. It now has it's own radiator mounted on the tray. I'm thinking of running my aircon through it instead of water

That looks like it is plumbed into the heater hoses? If so you won;t see inlet temps below 85Deg. I hope i see wrong. It needs it's own cooling radiator/pump etc.
Below is a pic of mine on my Rx7, gives you some idea on the way to do it correctly.



Water to air intercooler filler neck-Dash 16 fittings



Water to air intercooler pump


Please Pm me if you would like any help on the subject.

If you read my original post you'd see that it is now plumbed into it's own radiator.

toughnut wrote:If you read my original post you'd see that it is now plumbed into it's own radiator.

No Problems, i wasn;t trying to be a smart arse, just give you some advice.
You say you have the rad in the tray area-is it getting alot of direct air flow?
One thing i have found with W/A systems, is they relay heavily on a good radiator/pump system so they don;t become heat logged. Once they heat up, it takes quite a bit to get the heat out of them, esp if your radiator is too small/ out of direct cool air flow/ or your pump is not up to std.
I use the DC EWP (the full sized ones they recomend for motors) not the EBP.
Hope this helps
Glen

77F1004WD wrote:

toughnut wrote:If you read my original post you'd see that it is now plumbed into it's own radiator.

No Problems, i wasn;t trying to be a smart arse, just give you some advice.
You say you have the rad in the tray area-is it getting alot of direct air flow?
One thing i have found with W/A systems, is they relay heavily on a good radiator/pump system so they don;t become heat logged. Once they heat up, it takes quite a bit to get the heat out of them, esp if your radiator is too small/ out of direct cool air flow/ or your pump is not up to std.
I use the DC EWP (the full sized ones they recomend for motors) not the EBP.
Hope this helps
Glen

I understand the full size pumps are made in australia, and have a fairly short life, compared to the booster pump, which is made by Bosch.

Personnaly, I am using the booster pump off a Holden Vectra. Same as the bosch (davies craig) booster pump, but a lot cheaper.

The early series of EWP's did have a problem with leaking seals, they now have a Version3, which has a ceramic seal. Being used on a WA IC set-up, it doesn;t leave you stranded if one does fail.
And the back up from davies craig on this product is first class, any problems and they replace the pump straight away.
Steve, what sort of $$ are the vectra pumps?

I can sell them for about $170..... But I buy them a little cheaper.

Mytqik wrote:...
However water has a lower level of heat transfer. IE it accepts heat at a slower rate than air, so to cool the same volume of charge air, you will need more water...

Absolute crap!

hmmm interesting read fellas keep it comin